Tennis

[blackcat]

yeah, on the other hand, he never did look as bulky as nadal or murray ever.
i think federer has never been a charger of epic proportions à la Nadal and now also Murray and djoker.

Nadal upped the game, no doubt, and murray and djoker followed suit in order to stand a chance against him.
Federer has of course juiced throughout his carreer, let there be no doubt, but imo not to the epic levels of those three buffoons.

Nadal Red Queen Effect,

players on the treadmill of doping to stand still

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

When Davydenko was caught match fixing it was based on match play.

I thought Davydenko was collared via "irregular betting patterns". His odds changes from "odds on" to "odds against" as the match progressed, which is so unusual that one of the bookies cancelled all bets and didn't pay out.

 

[zebedee]

I thought Davydenko was collared via "irregular betting patterns".

Betfair voided all the bets; read this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/13/sports/tennis/13tennis.html?_r=0

It was largely the Davydenko fiasco that triggered the formation of the Tennis Integrity Unit. There seems little doubt that Davydenko or members of his circle were engaged in a betting coup. Conveniently, the ATP let him off the hook as they failed to gather the 'phone evidence needed to nail him.

Match fixing, by and large, is a professional preoccupation of the lower-ranked journeyman player who can supplement his otherwise modest tennis earnings, prize money basically, with the lucrative amounts available through illegal betting. The odd ATP player has been done for betting on his own matches, Joe Pro not exactly being the brightest bulb in the room.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Betting

While watching Gasquet Ferrer match on Sky Sports 1, there was an ad by Paddy Power.

'Money Back on Losing Bets If the Match Ends on a Tie-Break'

 

[the sceptic]

So? How often does a match end in a tiebreak? its just a promotion to get people to blow more money.

I bet Ferrer wins in 5 after Gasquet runs out of gas

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

While watching Gasquet Ferrer match on Sky Sports 1, there was an ad by Paddy Power.

'Money Back on Losing Bets If the Match Ends on a Tie-Break'

Paddy Power don't accept anything but tiny bets and are happy to limit customers further at the slightest suggestion that the punter has a clue what they are doing. The idea that millionaire tennis players are fixing matches to get bets on with Paddy Power is ludicrous.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Firstly Paddy Power is the largest betting company in Europe. And to suggest that tennis players are involved with the actual betting is extremely ignorant.

I don't know the ins and outs of betting but I do know that millions of currency are involved and its big business in Asia.

Of the few cases highlighted by tennis players, who speak up when they are approached, they say it is rife.

Do you think it is only Cricket that has betting problems.

 

[Bicycle]

If you were trying to fix a match you'd never get a bet on with Paddy Power they'd spot it a mile off.

Match fixing is not the problem in tennis it's doping - in particular the 3 "buffoons" sniper mentions.

 

[Bicycle]

This is incredible. Nadal looks to have taken this to a whole new level. Clearly his doctors have been very busy during his 7 months off and his extra downtime granted by the R1 "surprise" loss at Wimbledon.

 

[zebedee]

Murray, on doping. Seems he's undergone a change of heart - possibly/ probably
engineered by his publicist.

http://straightsets.blogs.nytimes.c...urray-on-beating-cheating/?smid=tw-share&_r=1

Strange no comment on the strange disappearance of Cilic from the tour. Seems the real topical questions on tennis doping were off limits.

 

[sniper]

This is incredible. Nadal looks to have taken this to a whole new level. Clearly his doctors have been very busy during his 7 months off and his extra downtime granted by the R1 "surprise" loss at Wimbledon.

it's funny how these guys challenge each other to charge more and more.
nadal upped the game. djoker and murray followed and became real threats to nadal, and so nadal decided to take it to another level once again.
let's see who's able to follow in terms of fitness.
since Nadal, tennis is no longer about who's the best tenniser.

 

[Papa Kel]

Was thinking about this yesterday and trying to come to a conclusion as to what type of doping would best benefit a tennis player. It's fairly straightforward as far as cycling is concerned, with anything improving oxygen carrying capacity being most beneficial 9/10 times.
However, tennis is slightly more complicated. Doping would be used equally for performance enhancement and speeding recovery from injury (not necessarily with the mindset of cheating, although it clearly is). But what drugs/techniques would actually be most prevalent? HGH, testosterone, blood boosters, roids, anything helping weight managment (diuretics, aicar, aod, etc.), blood doping, stimulants, gene doping, narcotics... and for what reason would tennis players dope for most commonly? They're questions that are reasonably hard to answer in my opinion.

 

[Cycle Chic]

New York Times Andy Murray Interview

At last an interview with some thoughtful, insightful QUESTIONS - well done the New York Times, Ben Rothenburg.
And Zebedee for posting it.

http://straightsets.blogs.nytimes.c...urray-on-beating-cheating/?smid=tw-share&_r=2&

Q. Can a sport be free of suspicion in this age? Is that possible?

Q. Do you think that sport is being pushed to levels where cheating might seem more necessary than it did in the past? The bar has been set to nearly inhuman levels?

Q. But you trust all of that has been done within the rules? Or you hope it has?

Q. Are positive tests, then, a sign that a system is working? If you don’t see any positive tests, is that worrying?
A.
I think there was not one positive test in the whole of the Tour de France, in cycling this year. I don’t know whether it’s a good or a bad thing.

it’s definitely changed a bit. I had a blood test on the Wednesday or Thursday before the tournament. I did one the Monday of the tournament starting, and I think they’re still blood testing the guys after the matches. So where we may have used to have done four or five blood tests in a year, max, I will have done — I did one after Wimbledon as well — I will have done three within a couple weeks at the U.S. Open, so it’s changed a bit.

If that's happening at the US Open maybe that was being done at Wimbledon which would explain the huge amount of 'injuries' and players pulling out of matches.

 

[Cycle Chic]

New York Times

However, tennis is slightly more complicated. Doping would be used equally for performance enhancement and speeding recovery from injury (not necessarily with the mindset of cheating, although it clearly is). But what drugs/techniques would actually be most prevalent? ....

A good comment below an article on Hewitt and Federer answers the above...some interesting points

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/04/s...justing-to-lower-expectations.html?ref=tennis

John
Washington, DC



Murray repeats an old line about drugs not helping in tennis much: "You know, the reason I trust tennis more than certain sports is because of how high the skill aspect of it is." This is a dangerous fallacy, as Jon Wertheim and other journalists have long since ackowledged.

Everyone knows that PEDs do not just boost endurance during performance. They help athletes to train harder and recover quicker, something especially helpful in tennis because of its gruelling schedule and brutal training demands. Moreoever, PEDs help with intensity, concentration and confidence, other crucial ingredients to success in tennis. Each match demands incredible concentration and controlled aggression over comparatively long stretches of time, Even a small lapse of that controlled aggression can cost you the victory. Consider the stigma of being one of those players who go on "walk-abouts" (Goolagong, Monfils, Tomic, etc.), and the praise of players like Nadal and Ferrer for their almost superhuman tenacity, for never giving up free points, EVER.

In particular, PEDs help give you that sense no one can beat you, that sense of invincibility that would lead you to constantly go for your shots, even at key junctures, a critical factor in who wins and succeeds in a sport where players many matches swing on just a few critical points. Can Murray seriously not know all this, which has become such a commonplace in the post-Armstrong era?

 

[sniper]

A good comment below an article on Hewitt and Federer answers the above...some interesting points

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/04/s...justing-to-lower-expectations.html?ref=tennis

and of all those helpful things, i think oxygen drugs is, indeed also in tennis, the most important drug.
without the endurance, all the other things won't be effective.
from my own experiences with soccer and tennis, it all starts with increased endurance.
not saying other peds don't help massively as well, they do. but on a scale of importance, i think oxygen peds rank highest not just in the traditional endurance sports such as cycling swimming etc, but also in soccer and tennis.
extra oxygen during the match, and of course the extra training hours that oxygen dope let's you make, that's pivotal more than muscle strenght, i think. in tennis and soccer at least.

 

[zebedee]

If you've undergone match experience with 25 shot rally points, you'll readily appreciate how drugs can help. Long points, however short they seem to TV viewers, are lung-busting, lactate-forming and exhausting, particularly when repeated endlessly over the course of long matches. Forget the b.llocks about skill requirements militating against peds use in tennis. Drugs also bring massive benefit to training load and off-tour training blocks where long hours on court are required to enhance those very skill levels in the first place.

Why players continue to peddle that ridiculous myth is questionable in itself.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

and of all those helpful things, i think oxygen drugs is, indeed also in tennis, the most important drug.

Won't this depend on the tennis player's limiting factor re oxygen utilisation? For a pro endurance athlete, the limiting factors is oxygen supply to the muscles, hence the impact of EPO. For most normal folk, the limiting factor is how much oxygen the muscles can actually utilise, and for such folk, there is already more oxygen supplied than can be used.

I guess though to be an elite tennis player, you need to be a top quality endurance athlete to start with, so the limiting factor for the top players is probably oxygen supply anyway.

 

[SundayRider]

Won't this depend on the tennis player's limiting factor re oxygen utilisation? For a pro endurance athlete, the limiting factors is oxygen supply to the muscles, hence the impact of EPO. For most normal folk, the limiting factor is how much oxygen the muscles can actually utilise, and for such folk, there is already more oxygen supplied than can be used.

I guess though to be an elite tennis player, you need to be a top quality endurance athlete to start with, so the limiting factor for the top players is probably oxygen supply anyway.

No coincidence that the best players tend to also be the best athletes. Take Federer for example his skill level has probably declined a lot less than his fitness/speed/movement and when there is more pressure on you physically then that is when the errors creep into your game.

 

[Bicycle]

Was thinking about this yesterday and trying to come to a conclusion as to what type of doping would best benefit a tennis player.

Same as any other sport - anything that makes you stronger, faster, increases endurance, etc.

 

[the sceptic]

Djokovic hematocrit must have been through the roof when he beat Murray in 5 sets and then Nadal 2 days after. That was a legendary performance.

 

[The Hitch]

Was thinking about this yesterday and trying to come to a conclusion as to what type of doping would best benefit a tennis player. It's fairly straightforward as far as cycling is concerned, with anything improving oxygen carrying capacity being most beneficial 9/10 times.
However, tennis is slightly more complicated. Doping would be used equally for performance enhancement and speeding recovery from injury (not necessarily with the mindset of cheating, although it clearly is). But what drugs/techniques would actually be most prevalent? HGH, testosterone, blood boosters, roids, anything helping weight managment (diuretics, aicar, aod, etc.), blood doping, stimulants, gene doping, narcotics... and for what reason would tennis players dope for most commonly? They're questions that are reasonably hard to answer in my opinion.

Everything. You can use dope in all those areas and become a vastly vastly superior player to what you were before.

 

[sniper]

This is incredible. Nadal looks to have taken this to a whole new level. Clearly his doctors have been very busy during his 7 months off and his extra downtime granted by the R1 "surprise" loss at Wimbledon.

imagine the epic spanking federer would have gotten against this nadal.
wise decision by federer to throw the match against robredo.

 

[Cycle Chic]

imagine the epic spanking federer would have gotten against this nadal.
wise decision by federer to throw the match against robredo.

Nadal wasn't exactly given a match by Robredo. Robredo played terribly and was probably tired after Federer match. Although Peter Fleming also says Nadal is playing the best he has ever seen.

 

[sniper]

Nadal wasn't exactly given a match by Robredo. Robredo played terribly and was probably tired after Federer match. Although Peter Fleming also says Nadal is playing the best he has ever seen.

a petty murray and djoker facing off in the semis whilst nadal will have a walk in the park against gasquet.
would have been interesting to see nadal play murray first and then djoker in the finals (or first djoker and then murray), just to see if he could pull off two mutant performances in two days.

 

[The Hitch]

wise decision by federer to throw the match against robredo.

Clearly you know next to nothing about tennis. In grand slams Federer has won he has had to come back from 2 sets down against opponents that had less talent in their body than Robredo has in his little finger. He then went on to win those slams. Did he throw those sets on purpose?

Federer has lost to guys of half his ability before. Did he throw all those matches too?

Maybe you haven't heard of Robredo, but he is a former world number 5 who always has had the potential to trouble the top guys. He has taken sets from Federer in grand slams before even when Federer was the undisputed king of kings winning 3 gs's a year. Now Federer is a shadow of his former self, world number 7, his lowest ranking since ****ing Samprass Agaasi and Kuerten and Ferrero were dominating the game. He has back injuries. Robredo meanwhile is having one of his best seasons having done that insane 3 5 set victories in a row at the French.

Yeah its so obsurd that he would lose that match

Here's a question for you. If Federer was scared of facing Nadal, why did he bother going through the earlier rounds

More importantly, how do you explain the fact that he was crying on his way out of the court yesterday after losing to Robredo. Is he that good an actor? Was it really worth the whole 2 hour charade and all the effort that had to go into pretending for 2 hours. If you ask me its easier to just win.