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The Astana Battle..

Page 3 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
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boalio said:
If I was the DS I would be worried. If the TdF was one big TTT, then Astana would absolutely kick ***. But I think a good team needs a strong leader and a team that believes their sole job is to deliver that leader to victory. Soldiers that are willing to sacrifice themselves for a bigger goal, so to speak. But I think in Astana, you have half the team just waiting for the other riders to crack so they can become the team leader. They may even resort to sabotaging each other.

An army full of generals is never going to win a war.

the general rides in the car
 
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BroDeal said:
That general has about as much control over his troops as Custer had over the indians.

that's really kind of .. how do you say? ... ssssstupid.
 
jackhammer111 said:
that's really kind of .. how do you say? ... ssssstupid.

Only if you are Simple Jack and unable to observe what is going on because the haze of man love obscures your vision. None of the riders can stop twittering about each other or stabbing each other in the back during interviews. It does not look like Bruyneel has things under control to me.
 
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BroDeal said:
Only if you are Simple Jack and unable to observe what is going on because the haze of man love obscures your vision. None of the riders can stop twittering about each other or stabbing each other in the back during interviews. It does not look like Bruyneel has things under control to me.

No No blow hard... your custer reference is stupid because it's a bad analogy.
Please don't make me explain this to you. trust me. it's stupid. It does not apply.

you are have no evidence for what you claim..the twittering, or backstabbing... but that's not why you are stupid.

That's just what you always do. say things as though they are true in the hope people will believe they are true when they, in fact, are not.. true...
 

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BroDeal said:
Only if you are Simple Jack and unable to observe what is going on because the haze of man love obscures your vision. None of the riders can stop twittering about each other or stabbing each other in the back during interviews. It does not look like Bruyneel has things under control to me.

I will remind you of your latest inanity at the end of the race once Astana have cleaned up. While obviously one TT does not make a race, Astana having four riders in the top ten will have the other race directors worried.
As far as Bruyneel goes...I think his record speaks far louder than your inanities. Plus I would suggest that he knows just a little more than you do about winning stage races.
 
jackhammer111 said:
you are have no evidence for what you claim..the twittering, or backstabbing... but that's not why you are stupid.

That's just what you always do. say things as though they are true in the hope people will believe they are true when they, in fact, are not.. true...

Are you blind and deaf as well as dumb. What have we been treated to for the last few months? Armstrong continually muddying the waters about who would be the team leader, his homies saying they will ride for him, everyone in their PR machine playing up his chances, etc. That's what. How many threads and posts have we had here on this forum discussing just this subject.

If you are going to say something, at least base part of it on reality.
 
Must be at Vino.
Sounding off after packing the top 10.
May confirms which camp Kloden is in.
May confirms Bertie wants Bruyneel medical programme.
Maybe confirms Armstrong is prepared to fetch and carry from the car.

May just be another bullturd twittering brag.

Just make sure you read the small print in those new team contracts, boys.
 
Mellow Velo said:
Must be at Vino.
Sounding off after packing the top 10.
May confirms which camp Kloden is in.
May confirms Bertie wants Bruyneel medical programme.
Maybe confirms Armstrong is prepared to fetch and carry from the car.

Just make sure you read the small print in those new team contracts, boys.

I do not see how the end of the statement, "and now doesn't know how he has to pay for the repairs," can refer to Vino unless he is talking about money and not a broken situation that will need to be rebuilt.
 

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BroDeal said:
I do not see how the end of the statement, "and now doesn't know how he has to pay for the repairs," can refer to Vino unless he is talking about money and not a broken situation that will need to be rebuilt.

No- I'm pretty sure it is to do with Vino and the press conference he held with the Vice Preident of The Kazahk Fed.

"Someone behaved like a bull in a china shop a few days ago, and now doesn't know how he has to pay for the repairs."

Vino basically said Astana was 'his baby' and if JB didnt like it he could go - and I am assuming Vino has the backing of the Fed.
Problem for them is JB's has all the rider contracts in his company Olympus SARL while the Kazahk Federation has the Pro Tour licence.

If the Kazahks want the team then it looks like they will have to build it from scratch.
 
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According to Noval, Bruyneel is entirely to blame for the dischord in the Astana camp - he has no idea how to manage the tension between Armstrong and Contador and is forcing the team to divide into camps.

That doesn't seem like a man on top of the situation to me and, since he's out of a job come the end of the TdF, he better decide which way to jump because, unless he starts mending bridges with Contador asap then he'll lose the ride whose the future and be stuck with a has been who will only be able to trade on his sporting reputation for so long. That USDiscatana team isn't getting any younger and, unless Leipheimer starts getting real results too, he'll never be a credible team leader.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
No- I'm pretty sure it is to do with Vino and the press conference he held with the Vice Preident of The Kazahk Fed.

"Someone behaved like a bull in a china shop a few days ago, and now doesn't know how he has to pay for the repairs."

Vino basically said Astana was 'his baby' and if JB didnt like it he could go - and I am assuming Vino has the backing of the Fed.
Problem for them is JB's has all the rider contracts in his company Olympus SARL while the Kazahk Federation has the Pro Tour licence.

If the Kazahks want the team then it looks like they will have to build it from scratch.

This explains my instant gut reaction back on page 4. I don't claim to be right or 'know' anything, this scenario just seems the most plausible explanation. Twitter has a lot to answer for. I hope the damn thing breaks.;)
 
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bianchigirl said:
According to Noval, Bruyneel is entirely to blame for the dischord in the Astana camp - he has no idea how to manage the tension between Armstrong and Contador and is forcing the team to divide into camps.

That doesn't seem like a man on top of the situation to me and, since he's out of a job come the end of the TdF, he better decide which way to jump because, unless he starts mending bridges with Contador asap then he'll lose the ride whose the future and be stuck with a has been who will only be able to trade on his sporting reputation for so long. That USDiscatana team isn't getting any younger and, unless Leipheimer starts getting real results too, he'll never be a credible team leader.

Was it a Noval's interview? Give the link, please.
 
bianchigirl said:
According to Noval, Bruyneel is entirely to blame for the dischord in the Astana camp - he has no idea how to manage the tension between Armstrong and Contador and is forcing the team to divide into camps.

That doesn't seem like a man on top of the situation to me and, since he's out of a job come the end of the TdF, he better decide which way to jump because, unless he starts mending bridges with Contador asap then he'll lose the ride whose the future and be stuck with a has been who will only be able to trade on his sporting reputation for so long. That USDiscatana team isn't getting any younger and, unless Leipheimer starts getting real results too, he'll never be a credible team leader.

I don't see why Contador would want to stay with Bruyneel, or Vino for that matter. If he stays with Bruyneel then he has to deal with the Armstrong situation through next year. Stay with the Kazakhs, and Vino could designate himself as leader for any race. Vino says that he cannot win the Tour, but just wait until he gets a taste of racing again. Contador needs to go to Caisse and have a team built completely around him with people he can trust. Valverde just needs to be chucked under the bus.
 

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BroDeal said:
I don't see why Contador would want to stay with Bruyneel, or Vino for that matter. If he stays with Bruyneel then he has to deal with the Armstrong situation through next year. Stay with the Kazakhs, and Vino could designate himself as leader for any race. Vino says that he cannot win the Tour, but just wait until he gets a taste of racing again. Contador needs to go to Caisse and have a team built completely around him with people he can trust. Valverde just needs to be chucked under the bus.

Actually Contador said before that he would have no problem welcoming back Vino - of course they were teammates at Liberty!!

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2008-10-17-4047715585_x.htm
 
Dr. Maserati said:
Actually Contador said before that he would have no problem welcoming back Vino - of course they were teammates at Liberty!!

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2008-10-17-4047715585_x.htm

I have my doubts. Those words of Contador were given before the current troubles. The problems with Armstrong and Bruyneel should have taught him that he should be numero uno on his team. . Plus Contador is no longer the rider he was when he was on LS with Vino.

There is also the potential problem with the ASO if Vino is on the team. Maybe that is not so important now that the ASO has been reorganized.
 
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Anonymous

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Sounds like The Hog's twitter was about Contador. If Contador got ****ed and went off, it is the fault of a weak DS like The Hog. Instead of managing the team in the way any real "genius" of tactics would, he kept his nose firmly planted up the a$$ of his cash cow.

Twittering about your own riders instead of talking with them? What a pu$$y.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
No- I'm pretty sure it is to do with Vino and the press conference he held with the Vice Preident of The Kazahk Fed.

"Someone behaved like a bull in a china shop a few days ago, and now doesn't know how he has to pay for the repairs."

Vino basically said Astana was 'his baby' and if JB didnt like it he could go - and I am assuming Vino has the backing of the Fed.
Problem for them is JB's has all the rider contracts in his company Olympus SARL while the Kazahk Federation has the Pro Tour licence.

If the Kazahks want the team then it looks like they will have to build it from scratch.

The riders (+staff) contracts are worth nothing without a sponsor, which was demonstrated last month if you remember, when at the first sign of outstanding salaries the top rider was as good as gone to Garmin (or Caisse).

Say the Kazakh federation wishes to break with SARL. What is Bruyneel going to do? He would need to have a sponsor aligned right away or otherwise SARL can't pay the riders which are then going to disappear (well maybe except the one who isn't paid anyway). And even if he has a sponsor, he doesn't have the pro tour license. So he could at best run a continental team I suppose.
 

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Cobblestones said:
The riders (+staff) contracts are worth nothing without a sponsor, which was demonstrated last month if you remember, when at the first sign of outstanding salaries the top rider was as good as gone to Garmin (or Caisse).

Say the Kazakh federation wishes to break with SARL. What is Bruyneel going to do? He would need to have a sponsor aligned right away or otherwise SARL can't pay the riders which are then going to disappear (well maybe except the one who isn't paid anyway). And even if he has a sponsor, he doesn't have the pro tour license. So he could at best run a continental team I suppose.

Well there was a lot of speculation that if the Kazahk's had failed to find the cash before the Tour that JB had a potential sponsor lined up.
I believe the issue of outstanding wages goes back to Marc Bivers company Zeus when he was the General Manager before Bruyneel.
There are still two ProTour licences available right now and I dont think JB would have any problem getting one.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
Well there was a lot of speculation that if the Kazahk's had failed to find the cash before the Tour that JB had a potential sponsor lined up.
I believe the issue of outstanding wages goes back to Marc Bivers company Zeus when he was the General Manager before Bruyneel.
There are still two ProTour licences available right now and I dont think JB would have any problem getting one.

Fair enough, but you're forgetting one thing. Contador wouldn't go to Caisse because he would take too much of a pay cut. Bruyneel might have a sponsor, but likely not in the same order of magnitude as Astana. He wouldn't be able to hold on to probably half of the riders including Contador.
 

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Cobblestones said:
Fair enough, but you're forgetting one thing. Contador wouldn't go to Caisse because he would take too much of a pay cut. Bruyneel might have a sponsor, but likely not in the same order of magnitude as Astana. He wouldn't be able to hold on to probably half of the riders.

I dont think Contador wants to hang around- I expect him to try and go somewhere. The problem for a team picking him up is part of the condition will be to bring some of his loyal riders with him.
I actually think JB is kicking for touch on this - waiting to see how this Tour pans out.
 
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The Kazakh Federation intend to use the non payment of wages issue to sack Bruyneel and will take it to CAS if necessary - if they can prove that Bruyneel withheld monies and lied about the non payment of wages then not only will they have legitimate reason to sack him but McQuaid will also have a harder time justifying why he is giving a proven fraudster a PT license.

With the Trek case coming up, these could be tough times for Armstrong & Bruyneel, especially in their chase for a sponsor and a PT license - they may just have pushed their luck too far this time.