The best climbers in the world?

[Lanark]

Contador is not an allrounder.

But what about all his theoretical results in the classics that he doesn't have, but could have if he tried (just doesn't care about them, obviously). If you add all the bunch sprints he could have won, if he tried, he is by far the best allrounder in the peloton (theoretically, of course).

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Tony M is in the top 15 for gradients less then 9%

Hell no he isn't he comes after:
Schleck 1 and 2
Menchov
Anton
Samu
Contador
VDB
Gesink
Kreuziger
Nibali
Scarponi
Valverde(god I hate the guy )
Rujanito
Rodriguez
Leipheimer (ow yeah good ol Bottle)
Horner


and a couple of other people

 

[El Pistolero]

But what about all his theoretical results in the classics that he doesn't have, but could have if he tried (just doesn't care about them, obviously). If you add all the bunch sprints he could have won, if he tried, he is by far the best allrounder in the peloton (theoretically, of course).

Valverde never tries for flat bunch sprints anymore. Just sayin'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFiXazQDueQ

Yeah, Contador is hopeless on hills. I totally agree.

If you're going to take allrounder super litteral then Valverde isn't one as well. Gets smoked on the real climbs and time trials. Also gets smoked on the big hills even these days(before his ban). And never goes for the cobbled classics. So he can't possibly be an allrounder now

 

[Lanark]

Contador has got what, 50 victories as a pro now? How many of those are one-day races? A big fat zero. I'm sorry, but you can't call someone who dominates every race with a mountain in it, and pretty much every ITT he starts in, but hasn't won a single measly one day race as being allround.

Just look at Valverde, he is someone who has actually won stage races, mountain top finishes, time trials, tricky bunch sprints and one-day races in a tough field. Claiming someone who absolutely dominates at two disciplines but hasn't won anything outside that is more allround is hogwash.

 

[The Hitch]

Valverde never tries for flat bunch sprints anymore. Just sayin'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFiXazQDueQ

Wow. Thats so well thought out Pisti. You show a clip where Contador scraped the top 10 and Valverde came 3rd. In a race he won twice.

Contador is the best at grand tours but he is not an all rounder. Valverde competes in any race he wants to. a flat sprint a hilly 1 day race or a climb up Angliru Valverde is always up there.

Contador is not.

 

[El Pistolero]

Wow. Thats so well thought out Pisti. You show a clip where Contador scraped the top 10 and Valverde came 3rd. In a race he won twice.

Contador is the best at grand tours but he is not an all rounder. Valverde competes in any race he wants to. a flat sprint a hilly 1 day race or a climb up Angliru Valverde is always up there.

Contador is not.

Valverde is no competition at the Tour or the Giro.

 

[El Pistolero]

Contador has got what, 50 victories as a pro now? How many of those are one-day races? A big fat zero. I'm sorry, but you can't call someone who dominates every race with a mountain in it, and pretty much every ITT he starts in, but hasn't won a single measly one day race as being allround.

Just look at Valverde, he is someone who has actually won stage races, mountain top finishes, time trials, tricky bunch sprints and one-day races in a tough field. Claiming someone who absolutely dominates at two disciplines but hasn't won anything outside that is more allround is hogwash.

Because unlike Valverde he can win the Tour?

It's a big joke if you think Contador can't handle a race like LBL. While we all know the only GT Valverde has a shot at is the Vuelta.

He's an allrounder hence he focuses on GTs and stage races and hardly ever enters a one day race. As if GTs never have hilly classic profile races

Like I said, Valverde has a better finishing kick then Alberto. That's all. Hardly makes him the best allrounder. He's not been particularly good at these hilly classics in 2009/2010 anyway. I guess Andy is a better allrounder as well now

 

[The Hitch]

Valverde is no competition at the Tour or the Giro.

Yes. During his best stage race years - 2009 and 10, he wasnt able to ride them.

Not everyone has been able to lied their way into the Giro and Tour in recent years

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Contador has got what, 50 victories as a pro now? How many of those are one-day races? A big fat zero. I'm sorry, but you can't call someone who dominates every race with a mountain in it, and pretty much every ITT he starts in, but hasn't won a single measly one day race as being allround.

Just look at Valverde, he is someone who has actually won stage races, mountain top finishes, time trials, tricky bunch sprints and one-day races in a tough field. Claiming someone who absolutely dominates at two disciplines but hasn't won anything outside that is more allround is hogwash.

70+
Check check check, just wait 'till he's as old as valverde

 

[The Hitch]

Because unlike Valverde he can win the Tour?

It's a big joke if you think Contador can't handle a race like LBL. While we all know the only GT Valverde has a shot at is the Vuelta.

He's an allrounder hence he focuses on GTs and stage races and hardly ever enters a one day race. As if GTs never have hilly classic profile races

Even Andy Schleck can focus on LBL when hes doing the Tour. 1 win 1 podium. Whats Contadors record there? Whats Contadors record in the Worlds. Where did he finish in olympic rr? (shcleck finished 5th)

Yep, what an all rounder

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Even Andy Schleck can focus on LBL when hes doing the Tour. 1 win 1 podium. Whats Contadors record there? Whats Contadors record in the Worlds. Where did he finish in olympic rr? (shcleck finished 5th)

Yep, what an all rounder

That's Schleck the elder right ? baby schleck wouldn't get fifth in the worlds RR

 

[El Pistolero]

Even Andy Schleck can focus on LBL when hes doing the Tour. 1 win 1 podium. Whats Contadors record there? Whats Contadors record in the Worlds. Where did he finish in olympic rr? (shcleck finished 5th)

Yep, what an all rounder

Contador finished third on FW(in front of the defeated) and did very good in his first serious try at LBL. In case you forgot, his teammate was upfront, so he wasn't contributing to the chase or launching any attack.

But what's Valverde's record at Tour, Giro, any stage race he entered against Contador, any time trial against Contador, any type of climb against Contador, how good is he in a 3 week period compared to Contador

And let's not forget, 2.5 years younger.

Yes, Valverde finished third in that LBL, but you're lying to your self if you think he was looking good. Just because he hasn't focused yet on hilly classics doesn't mean he's not good at them or isn't an allrounder. You know he's trying for the Giro/Tour double. Like to see Valverde do that...

 

[Ryaguas]

Hence, riders like Menchov, Sanchez, Nibali, Evans, Valverde who generally just try to defend themselves in the mountains cannot be called climbers, imo.

NO... Samu is a climber, He dont defend himself in the mountains, He attacks, a quick example... Last year's Vuelta a Burgos... He attacked in Las Lagunas de Neila IIRC, quite steep finish...

Samu is like a mini Valverde. Good at all those things but worse than Valverde in all apart from tts and maybe climbing

After losing an sprint against Kloden I think that He lost that position of being a "mini Valverde"

Hell no he isn't he comes after:
Schleck 1 and 2
Menchov
Anton
Samu
Contador
VDB
Gesink
Kreuziger
Nibali
Scarponi
Valverde(god I hate the guy )
Rujanito
Rodriguez
Leipheimer (ow yeah good ol Bottle)
Horner

LOL... You put Andrew, Frank, Menchov, ANTON and Samu before Alberto in gradients below 9%...

 

[Parrulo]

Even Andy Schleck can focus on LBL when hes doing the Tour. 1 win 1 podium. Whats Contadors record there? Whats Contadors record in the Worlds. Where did he finish in olympic rr? (shcleck finished 5th)

Yep, what an all rounder

contador has been focusing on the 1 week races in previous years but he already said he wants to be in top shape for the ardennes and wants to win them. tbh i don't find it that hard to see him wining, he is also 28 at 28 gilbert won his first lbl so i think contador still has time

this idea that contador can't compete in hilly classics is silly. he just hasn't gone for them YET.

and i think we will see him in the worlds in 2014 with valverde as his domestique

i like valverde and i think he is a great allrounder most likely the very best, but contador is also an allrounder and can defo compete in the ardennes.

or you think he can't handle the distance? or the hills? or the flat? all he lacks is a final kick but so does andy and he already has 1 lbl in the bag

 

[El Pistolero]

Let's not forget Samu losing a sprint against Andy Clearly the Valverde type of cyclist

 

[Parrulo]

NO... Samu is a climber, He dont defend himself in the mountains, He attacks, a quick example... Last year's Vuelta a Burgos... He attacked in Las Lagunas de Neila IIRC, quite steep finish...



After losing an sprint against Kloden I think that He lost that position of being a "mini Valverde"



LOL... You put Andrew, Frank, Menchov, ANTON and Samu before Alberto in gradients below 9%...

he was just naming people better then martin. no particular order. no1 is that silly

 

[Parrulo]

Let's not forget Samu losing a sprint against Andy Clearly the Valverde type of cyclist

meh he got cramps, it happens on a "normal" situation samu would beat andy i think

 

[The Hitch]

Contador finished third on FW(in front of the defeated) and did very good in his first serious try at LBL. In case you forgot, his teammate was upfront, so he wasn't contributing to the chase.

But what's Valverde's record at Tour, Giro, any stage race he entered against Contador, any time trial against Contador, any type of climb against Contador, how good is he in a 3 week period compared to Contador

And let's not forget, 2.5 years younger.

Valverdes best in Tour is 8th. But he wasnt able to do it in 2009 when he was in way better shape. He never did the Giro, and couldnt in either 09 or 10 (unlike some who can).

His best in Vuelta is 1st. Against Contador in 08 he came 6th (despite having just done the Tour).

In Worlds his best is 2nd. In Olympics 9th. In Lbl 1st. In FW 1st. I would love to see him go for MSR or Lombardia.

But any race you choose Valverde can make be up there.

You make it out like his best is 25th in the Tour and like he lost 20 minutes to Contador in the Vuelta. No. He came 8th in the Tour. He came 6th in the Vuelta despite being exhausted from a full season. And while being up there in gts hes also up there in classics in monuments in worlds.

COntador isnt. Hence despite his greatness he is NoT and all rounder.

 

[El Pistolero]

Valverdes best in Tour is 8th. But he wasnt able to do it in 2009 when he was in way better shape. He never did the Giro, and couldnt in either 09 or 10 (unlike some who can).

His best in Vuelta is 1st. Against Contador in 08 he came 6th (despite having just done the Tour).

In Worlds his best is 2nd. In Olympics 9th. In Lbl 1st. In FW 1st. I would love to see him go for MSR or Lombardia.

But any race you choose Valverde can make be up there.

You make it out like his best is 25th in the Tour and like he lost 20 minutes to Contador in the Vuelta. No. He came 8th in the Tour. He came 6th in the Vuelta despite being exhausted from a full season. And while being up there in gts hes also up there in classics in monuments in worlds.

COntador isnt. Hence despite his greatness he is NoT and all rounder.

Coming sixth at the Tour is no big thing. VDB2 came 5th last year, but I don't think he's a good cyclist or antything... I really don't.

No Valverde can't be up there at the Tour for the victory. He just can't.

 

[The Hitch]

meh he got cramps, it happens on a "normal" situation samu would beat andy i think

Yep. When it mattered most (look at the middle of the picture fading away)

Coming sixth at the Tour is no big thing. VDB2 came 5th last year, but I don't think he's a good cyclist or antything... I really don't.

No Valverde can't be up there at the Tour for the victory. He just can't.

No. But if he also had top 10's in every race 1 day, 7 day or 21 day, flat moderate or mountinous, he ever entered then he would be an all rounder (just top 10's, forget wins like Valverde has)

Do you see how that works?

 

[The Hitch]

Coming sixth at the Tour is no big thing. VDB2 came 5th last year, but I don't think he's a good cyclist or antything... I really don't.

No Valverde can't be up there at the Tour for the victory. He just can't.

No. But if he also had top 10's in every race 1 day, 7 day or 21 day, flat moderate or mountinous, he ever entered then he would be an all rounder (just top 10's, forget wins like Valverde has)

Do you see how that works?

 

[Parrulo]

He came 6th in the Vuelta despite being exhausted from a full season. And while being up there in gts hes also up there in classics in monuments in worlds.

COntador isnt. Hence despite his greatness he is NoT and all rounder.

well arguably contador does race all season long and wins all season long and still won the tour. last year he did the early season 1 week races (wining plenty) he did the ardennes( getting good results despite what you may say) and then won the tour. valverde only raced until romandie and then got banned (unfortunately as i like to see him race and think he brings something good to the race) he did won a lot until romandie but its clear that by lbl his form was already fading and that he would need a big rest to perform at a good level again that season. prolly waiting until the vuelta.

contador was already peforming well enough to beat the super peak freak by july

all this are ofc assumptions

p.s. before you say that contador didn't race after the tour. he didn't race because he likes the summer and likes to have some mono tan on his body also because he was cooked by then

 

[Parrulo]

hitch please explain me what makes you think contador can't perform on the hilly classics if he peaks for them like the bro's.

 

[The Hitch]

hitch please explain me what makes you think contador can't perform on the hilly classics if he peaks for them like the bro's.

I dont know that he cant, rather that he hasnt.

Maybe he could destroy everyone in LBL in worlds in FW. But he hasnt. Hes tried a few times and he hasnt. Valverde has. Thats the difference. THis isnt about potential but reality.

In reality Valverde has those hundreds of top 10's in every type of race imaginable, win after win after win in every type of race imaginable. Contador doesnt. Maybe he could but he doesnt hence hse is not as good an All rounder imo.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

LOL... You put Andrew, Frank, Menchov, ANTON and Samu before Alberto in gradients below 9%...

dude they're not in order Alberto owns them all