Teams & Riders The Big 6

[AmRacer]

There is a Big 2 right now.

I'm not counting out Jonas just yet, and R&R can get results too.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I'm not counting out Jonas just yet, and R&R can get results too.

Maybe you are right but what I saw from Jonas this year, doesn't give me hope. I really think, just like Wout, he is not able to push his limits anymore. Being a dad again plus his crash in Pais Vasco made him a different rider. I hope to be wrong

 

[Red Rick]

For quite a while frankly, Van Aert lives on hype and what ifs, the other 5 live on big results.

There was a time when Van Aert was considered the #1 rider basedon Tour de France stages and domestique work. I remember the 2021-2022 debates over that.

 

[Berniece]

There is a Big 2 right now.

This group is named the big 6 because when one of them participates, they win. This might not be the case for WVA anymore, but I don't see what changed for Roglic/Evenepoel/Vingegaard. Evenepoel would win LBL if Pogacar didn't participate. Roglic should win the Giro if he's at a similar level as he was in the Vuelta. Same goes for Vingegaard in the Vuelta.

Hence the Big 6. AmRacer is right that there's a case to be made to exclude WVA.

 

[Red Rick]

This group is named the big 6 because when one of them participates, they win. This might not be the case for WVA anymore, but I don't see what changed for Roglic/Evenepoel/Vingegaard. Evenepoel would win LBL if Pogacar didn't participate. Roglic should win the Giro if he's at a similar level as he was in the Vuelta. Same goes for Vingegaard in the Vuelta.

Hence the Big 6. AmRacer is right that there's a case to be made to exclude WVA.

If we treat it as a cohort study, you don't exclude people at any time. You just track them as a group.

In tennis, The Big 4 never stopped being the Big 4, people just started talking about the Big 3 more but that was a seperate thing.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It is a big 3 (Vingegaard included) because when they are in a race (2024 -2025) we know one of them will win. Murray was part of the big 4 because he could beat all of them in the right circunstances. This can't happen to Roglic, Remco and WVA (unless MVP, Pogacar or Vingegaard crash out). Maybe 2-3 years ago, Remco would absolutely deserved his spot alongside Pogacar, Vingegaard, etc but not now, specially because WVA is regressing and will no longer give Belgium a tactical advantage so the question is: Can Remco beat Pogacar and MVP in a WC course by dropping them on sheer power, without expecting WVA to mark those 2? The answer is no IMHO.
Unfortunately in LBL, we never saw Pogacar vs Remco so maybe this year, it will be the first time we see a proper battle (I'm not convinced btw).

 

[Berniece]

If we treat it as a cohort study, you don't exclude people at any time. You just track them as a group.

In tennis, The Big 4 never stopped being the Big 4, people just started talking about the Big 3 more but that was a seperate thing.

That's also a possibility. I prefer it as a sliding window in time which makes more sense to me for an active discussion on the forum.

 

[Berniece]

It is a big 3 (Vingegaard included) because when they are in a race (2024 -2025) we know one of them will win. Murray was part of the big 4 because he could beat all of them in the right circunstances. This can't happen to Roglic, Remco and WVA (unless MVP, Pogacar or Vingegaard crash out). Maybe 2-3 years ago, Remco would absolutely deserved his spot alongside Pogacar, Vingegaard, etc but not now, specially because WVA is regressing and will no longer give Belgium a tactical advantage so the question is: Can Remco beat Pogacar and MVP in a WC course by dropping them on sheer power, without expecting WVA to mark those 2? The answer is no IMHO.
Unfortunately in LBL, we never saw Pogacar vs Remco so maybe this year, it will be the first time we see a proper battle (I'm not convinced btw).

You completely missed the Olympics because Pogacar wasn't riding?

 

[KZD]

There was a time when Van Aert was considered the #1 rider basedon Tour de France stages and domestique work. I remember the 2021-2022 debates over that.

Well never by me, Pogačar was already a double Tour winner and had won LBL and Lombardia by then so he was already the #1. However its undeniable that Van Aert was one of the top riders back then with his incredible performances in the Tour and several podiums in major one day races while right now, he couldn't even podium the two monuments that he specifically prepared for.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Well never by me, Pogačar was already a double Tour winner and had won LBL and Lombardia by then so he was already the #1. However its undeniable that Van Aert was one of the top riders back then with his incredible performances in the Tour and several podiums in major one day races while right now, he couldn't even podium the two monuments that he specifically prepared for.

Wout was probably better than MVP in 2022.

 

[memyselfandI]

Maybe ranking of Big6..or 5, should be viewed from last complete racing season perspective/results?

But for sure WVA is dropping out soon at this development curve. Actually top level Alaphilippe is the only one that's climbs up to Big6 from current athletes, well his top level is probably gone. But from quick memory the only one that could make a spectacle, sort of, in Grand Tours and one day races.

Opinion.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Perhaps it's somewhat premature to review a list just a few months into a new season.
Especially when some members of the group are either currently injured or finding their way back after suffering major injuries.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Wout was never really in the big 6 group, or better being a cycling superstar, due to the ability to consistently win one day, week long stage races or GTs. The other five are still doing what they have been doing all along.

So nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Maybe ranking of Big6..or 5, should be viewed from last complete racing season perspective/results?

But for sure WVA is dropping out soon at this development curve. Actually top level Alaphilippe is the only one that's climbs up to Big6 from current athletes, well his top level is probably gone. But from quick memory the only one that could make a spectacle, sort of, in Grand Tours and one day races.

Opinion.

Yeah it was unfair to exclude him from the Big Six at one time. Van Aert was in the Big 6 when he won five stages of the Tour of Britain just before Ala won the Worlds for a second time. I'd much rather have Ala's playmates than Van Aert's. Heck, I'd even take Niki Terpstra's.

 

[gavia88]

It is a big 3 (Vingegaard included) because when they are in a race (2024 -2025) we know one of them will win. Murray was part of the big 4 because he could beat all of them in the right circunstances. This can't happen to Roglic, Remco and WVA (unless MVP, Pogacar or Vingegaard crash out). Maybe 2-3 years ago, Remco would absolutely deserved his spot alongside Pogacar, Vingegaard, etc but not now, specially because WVA is regressing and will no longer give Belgium a tactical advantage so the question is: Can Remco beat Pogacar and MVP in a WC course by dropping them on sheer power, without expecting WVA to mark those 2? The answer is no IMHO.
Unfortunately in LBL, we never saw Pogacar vs Remco so maybe this year, it will be the first time we see a proper battle (I'm not convinced btw).

well Belgium no tactical advantage anymore? Just only a few months ago van Aert Neutrolized Mvpd at the Olympics and Remco could win.

 

[Peyroteo94]

well Belgium no tactical advantage anymore? Just only a few months ago van Aert Neutrolized Mvpd at the Olympics and Remco could win.

Forgot about that race. But I believe we will not see that anymore.

 

[AmRacer]

well Belgium no tactical advantage anymore? Just only a few months ago van Aert Neutrolized Mvpd at the Olympics and Remco could win.

Mathieu could have neutralized Remco and letting Wout win....

 

[slow_climber]

Not a Big 6 anymore, maybe more layers in a top 14 (!?), or is that too much

Big 2 - Pog, MVDP
Not so Big 3 - Remco, Roglic, Vingegaard
Next Best 4 - Ayuso, Van Aert, Pedersen, Philipsen
Next Next Best 5 - Pidcock, Ganna, Merlier, Milan, Jorgensen

 

[Berniece]

Not a Big 6 anymore, maybe more layers in a top 14 (!?), or is that too much

Big 2 - Pog, MVDP
Not so Big 3 - Remco, Roglic, Vingegaard
Next Best 4 - Ayuso, Van Aert, Pedersen, Philipsen
Next Next Best 5 - Pidcock, Ganna, Merlier, Milan, Jorgensen

That's not what this group meant. It's not just a ranking of who are the best riders

 

[slow_climber]

That's not what this group meant. It's not just a ranking of who are the best riders

Fine - just that the idea of a Big 6 has kind of run its course

 

[Netserk]

Not a Big 6 anymore, maybe more layers in a top 14 (!?), or is that too much

Big 2 - Pog, MVDP
Not so Big 3 - Remco, Roglic, Vingegaard
Next Best 4 - Ayuso, Van Aert, Pedersen, Philipsen
Next Next Best 5 - Pidcock, Ganna, Merlier, Milan, Jorgensen

Ayuso as 6th while Almeida and Adam Yates don't make the top-14?! Baffling.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Not a Big 6 anymore, maybe more layers in a top 14 (!?), or is that too much

Big 2 - Pog, MVDP
Not so Big 3 - Remco, Roglic, Vingegaard
Next Best 4 - Ayuso, Van Aert, Pedersen, Philipsen
Next Next Best 5 - Pidcock, Ganna, Merlier, Milan, Jorgensen

Even if one would go by this metric the list you made basically still cements the traditional big 6. As i assume the sixth one in your book is still van Aert and the season ahead ready to prove that.

So yeah, once you start making a list it returns the usual suspects, on how you shuffle it, that is more of a personal preference that anything else. For example i have them at:

Big One - Rogla
...

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Big One - Rogla
...

Hopefully Rogla will win Paris-Roubaix next year!

 

[will-10]

Before y'all get too heated about the ranking stuff just remember - all rankings are wrong, some more than others.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Hopefully Rogla will win Paris-Roubaix next year!

Pogi won Giro + Tour and didn't win PR next year, so Rogla i guess might need two tries too. We'll see.