The blurred lines of Livestrong - the spin bike sham

[Hitchey]

Coincidentally, while reading through this thread, a documentary about Enron and what transpired up to and after the mushroom cloud was/is on cnbc at the same time.
I just could not help but look at Jeffrey Skilling, as he lied with a straight face, as he deflected all the questions presented to him, as he called someone an a&&hole when presented with a very direct question about enron's earnings and "how".
I could not help but make a connection with a certain texan as he has dodged and denied, and directs vitriolic comment towards those who question him or his road to success.
And we all know what happened to enron and a few key responsible players.

 

[Granville57]

Coincidentally, while reading through this thread, a documentary about Enron and what transpired up to and after the mushroom cloud was/is on cnbc at the same time.
I just could not help but look at Jeffrey Skilling, as he lied with a straight face, as he deflected all the questions presented to him, as he called someone an a&&hole when presented with a very direct question about enron's earnings and "how".
I could not help but make a connection with a certain texan as he has dodged and denied, and directs vitriolic comment towards those who question him or his road to success.
And we all know what happened to enron and a few key responsible players.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I was doing exactly the same, and the Enron program provided an eerie soundtrack to the reading of this thread. I couldn't help but wonder just who, if anyone, will end up playing the role of Cliff Baxter if the roof blows off this whole thing.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/04/10/eveningnews/main505845.shtml

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

....and according to a number of people I've discussed this with, Flinders will pay a licensing fee to Livestrong, (No word yet if that's LAF or Demand / CSE / whoever decides they own the rights at that time)....

Did your sources tell you if Flinders also paid LA personally, to make an appearance at their event?

It seems unlikely to me that Demand or CSE would be earning licencing fees from a third party using the LAF owned Livestrong brand.....unless of course they are wanting to take nefarious advantage of complex financial arrangements involving difficult-to-value assets. Does CSE broker the licencing deals for LAF and get a cut?

Good post up-thread.

 

[barn yard]

i thought i would have a look at the livestrong facebook page, here are a couple of posts i thought would be worthy of discussion :

it really is sad to me that people think all this stuff is 'good' and presumably doing something to cure cancer.

got buried with a livestrong wristband?? what a sad day.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

If LA has even an iota of a conscience, that photo should make him curl up in a ball and sob in a puddle of his own vomit.

Talk about taking advantage of people in times of need and grief.

 

[barn yard]

it is more likely that he would be looking at the one in glasses...

(edit for admin - it is 'His' quote, not mine...)

 

[D-Queued]

it is more likely that he would be looking at the one in glasses...

Exactly.

Dave.

 

[jimbob_in_co]

i thought i would have a look at the livestrong facebook page, here are a couple of posts i thought would be worthy of discussion :

it really is sad to me that people think all this stuff is 'good' and presumably doing something to cure cancer.

got buried with a livestrong wristband?? what a sad day.

If LA has even an iota of a conscience, that photo should make him curl up in a ball and sob in a puddle of his own vomit.

Talk about taking advantage of people in times of need and grief.

We had two family members die from cancer in 2009. These weren't 'inspiring Livestong video' moments. These were: hours in the emergency room, days in the grungy hospital room, dealing with the poor nurse's assistant who was in way over her head, arguing with my employer long distance from the waiting room about getting my weekly time sheet in on their schedule, 24/7 in hospice types of case. You know, 'real life' utterly humbling experiences during the death of a loved one, that all of we mortal experience.

The Lance Armstrong Foundation finally reached out to us a few weeks after the second family cancer death, with a form letter to larger donors (of years gone by) asking for another significant contribution to help them meet their 2009 fund raising goals. No mention of their acknowledgment of what they knew we had experienced. (I had contacted them throughout the year asking about any new clinical trials they might have seen through their connections to major cancer centers and the Federal health/medical organizations. The diagnoses were beyond hope.)

Even in my own recent diagnosis and surgery for cancer, I never said a peep to any of the current and former LAF staffers and major volunteers I had met over the years. Why bother? It would have been a waste of time and an opportunity for them to ask for another donation.

barn yard and JMBeaushrimp, you are both more correct in your opinions than you could possibly realize.

Hopefully the 'unwashed masses' will soon learn the truth.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Excellent thread. Reminds me of the old days of the Clinic and some of the discussions we had. Keep up the good work guys.

 

[thehog]

We had two family members die from cancer in 2009. These weren't 'inspiring Livestong video' moments. These were: hours in the emergency room, days in the grungy hospital room, dealing with the poor nurse's assistant who was in way over her head, arguing with my employer long distance from the waiting room about getting my weekly time sheet in on their schedule, 24/7 in hospice types of case. You know, 'real life' utterly humbling experiences during the death of a loved one, that all of we mortal experience.

The Lance Armstrong Foundation finally reached out to us a few weeks after the second family cancer death, with a form letter to larger donors (of years gone by) asking for another significant contribution to help them meet their 2009 fund raising goals. No mention of their acknowledgment of what they knew we had experienced. (I had contacted them throughout the year asking about any new clinical trials they might have seen through their connections to major cancer centers and the Federal health/medical organizations. The diagnoses were beyond hope.)

Even in my own recent diagnosis and surgery for cancer, I never said a peep to any of the current and former LAF staffers and major volunteers I had met over the years. Why bother? It would have been a waste of time and an opportunity for them to ask for another donation.

barn yard and JMBeaushrimp, you are both more correct in your opinions than you could possibly realize.

Hopefully the 'unwashed masses' will soon learn the truth.

Thanks for the post and hang in there my friend.

The experience you relate to the hospital details my own experience with cancer. One of my biggest problems with Livestrong and awareness is the "fist pumping we can beat this mantra" they run with. Cancer is so much more and the real life story you depict is reality. Awareness is not yellow wristbands. *Still to this day I don't think anyone could name the different types of cancers, or the various stages of each one or the suggested prevention or treatment plans. Awareness hasn't taught us much but made some people a lot of money.

 

[barn yard]

i would agree with the above 100%

awareness, hope, denial... all of this does nothing except sell merchandise and line people's pockets

 

[BotanyBay]

My mother died from metastatic breast cancer, and I lost my big brother to metastatic lung cancer. In both cases, I watched a slow deterioration, and in the case of my brother, an excruciating one as it affected his bones.

All I can say about my experiences is that they seriously humbled me as a human being, they did not make me feel like putting on yellow wristbands and parading around talking about fighting cancer. It's not a college football game.

My opinion is that the best way to fight cancer is to truly understand its nature (through research) and to more thoroughly educate the young about behavior modification to hopefully prevent the cases that are preventable.

Wearing a livestrong jersey is great for those "gotta support the team" types of people, but it does nothing to assist anyone with cancer.

Cancer is not a beast that is simply slain. Every day, each one of us develops cancerous cells of some sort in our body. And our body rids itself of those cells rather quickly. So we ALL have cancer. Cancer is always with us.

If you've ever watched someone die of cancer, you'll know that what they truly needed was their friends and family by their sides, not "publicity visits" from a famous athlete coming to rile them up to help them "fight". When I see some little kid with no hair and an IV coming out of his arm playing ping-pong with Lance in a photo, I personally get sick. He wouldn't be there the next day playing ping-pong with no cameras around. I know he made that kid's day, but that kid needed no more than his family and friends. Lance is invading that kid's personal situation for his own publicity. Sorry, this gets me so upset, I have to stop here...

Lance, if you gave a damn about Cancer, hit the elementary school circuit. Talk to them about not smoking and eating right, and about exercise. And leave the cameras at home for once. And train other people to do the same, and keep spreading the word through personal action and commitment. Check your ego at the door. You could choose to do ten times more good work with 1/100 the budget.

 

[jimbob_in_co]

My mother died from metastatic breast cancer, and I lost my big brother to metastatic lung cancer. In both cases, I watched a slow deterioration, and in the case of my brother, an excruciating one as it affected his bones.

All I can say about my experiences is that they seriously humbled me as a human being, they did not make me feel like putting on yellow wristbands and parading around talking about fighting cancer. It's not a college football game.

My opinion is that the best way to fight cancer is to truly understand its nature (through research) and to more thoroughly educate the young about behavior modification to hopefully prevent the cases that are preventable.

Wearing a livestrong jersey is great for those "gotta support the team" types of people, but it does nothing to assist anyone with cancer.

Exactly, The next person who tells me to "Livestrong" in person is gonna get decked.

Cancer is not a beast that is simply slain. Every day, each one of us develops cancerous cells of some sort in our body. And our body rids itself of those cells rather quickly. So we ALL have cancer. Cancer is always with us.

If you've ever watched someone die of cancer, you'll know that what they truly needed was their friends and family by their sides, not "publicity visits" from a famous athlete coming to rile them up to help them "fight". When I see some little kid with no hair and an IV coming out of his arm playing ping-pong with Lance in a photo, I personally get sick. He wouldn't be there the next day playing ping-pong with no cameras around. I know he made that kid's day, but that kid needed no more than his family and friends. Lance is invading that kid's personal situation for his own publicity. Sorry, this gets me so upset, I have to stop here...

Your emotions are 100% understood by me BB. I can completely empathize with everything said above. Truly, I've been there and done that, and I know many other people have as well.

Lance, if you gave a damn about Cancer, hit the elementary school circuit. Talk to them about not smoking and eating right, and about exercise. And leave the cameras at home for once. And train other people to do the same, and keep spreading the word through personal action and commitment. Check your ego at the door. You could choose to do ten times more good work with 1/100 the budget.

I will now give credit where credit is due. I have read that the Lance Armstrong Foundation is starting/expanding an elementary school outreach program about cancer education; and I say "BRAVO!" (or better yet, 'Chapeau') to that effort. I want to see it succeed and hope some of the money I raised and donated to the LAF in years gone by is funding that project. Most importantly I want them to ensure it IS a success and has a real impact. As you said, THIS IS THE STUFF they need to be doing.

 

[Beech Mtn]

I kind of feel like if wonderboy wants to increase awareness, it would've been a good plan to go around the country to high schools and colleges and talk to athletes about being wary of putting steroids and hormones and who-knows-what-kind-of-chemicals into their systems. No telling what kind of side effects all this crap has on a growing body.

 

[BotanyBay]

I will now give credit where credit is due. I have read that the Lance Armstrong Foundation is starting/expanding an elementary school outreach program about cancer education; and I say "BRAVO!" (or better yet, 'Chapeau') to that effort. I want to see it succeed and hope some of the money I raised and donated to the LAF in years gone by is funding that project. Most importantly I want them to ensure it IS a success and has a real impact. As you said, THIS IS THE STUFF they need to be doing.

Good to hear. Let's hope an organization with this kind of opportunity can change course and do better.

 

[Velocentric]

Did your sources tell you if Flinders also paid LA personally, to make an appearance at their event?

Not something I've heard. As far as I'm aware his only appearance fee was organised by Rann & paid by Australia but definitely something to look into.

Reading the personal and very real experiences of dealing with Cancer here have made me even more angry at Armstrong and the way in which he's branded this hideous disease for personal gain. I'm not sure what punishment he'll ever see in this lifetime and I'm not a big believer in divine retribution but if ever a man deserved a personal hell staffed with creatures from a Hieronymous Bosch nightmare it is this walking ego.

 

[Cloxxki]

Not something I've heard. As far as I'm aware his only appearance fee was organised by Rann & paid by Australia but definitely something to look into.

I can't see how reputed organizations would pay Lance's fees for doing "charity work".

Unless, he'd reimburse half of it to a free to be determined bank account.

 

[thehog]

I can't see how reputed organizations would pay Lance's fees for doing "charity work".

Unless, he'd reimburse half of it to a free to be determined bank account.

I have to the say the "arrangement" is genius. I was duped.

It appears the Flinders research centre pays Livestrong to use the name "Livestrong" for the centre. The reason for this is apparently it will bring more notoriety to the centre and thus more donations. Armstrong himself then is paid to appear at the centre first by Livestrong in his direct consultancy fees and a second time by the centre itself at his usual public speaking rate.

Here's me thinking he donated the name to the centre!!

So you combine that lovely little racket with the Australian governments pay cheque then add on top his Radioshack salary along with the tab for the jet fuel and a holiday for Anna and the kids and the entire Australian expenditure turns into a lovely money spinner all in the name of awareness.

So you can understand why the government held back the payment structure from public view.

Hopefully Floyd's nugget is due to come soon and will spoil the party.

 

[BotanyBay]

I have to the say the "arrangement" is genius. I was duped.

It appears the Flinders research centre pays Livestrong to use the name "Livestrong" for the centre. The reason for this is apparently it will bring more notoriety to the centre and thus more donations. Armstrong himself then is paid to appear at the centre first by Livestrong in his direct consultancy fees and a second time by the centre itself at his usual public speaking rate.

Here's me thinking he donated the name to the centre!!

So you combine that lovely little racket with the Australian governments pay cheque then add on top his Radioshack salary along with the tab for the jet fuel and a holiday for Anna and the kids and the entire Australian expenditure turns into a lovely money spinner all in the name of awareness.

So you can understand why the government held back the payment structure from public view.

Hopefully Floyd's nugget is due to come soon and will spoil the party.

Much like how these yutzes supposedly "owned" Planet Hollywood. Well, they did (sort of). In exchange for large quantities of cash and stock, these stars lent their names and did personal appearances, etc. Arnie would go to an opening and hang out in the kitchen and taste burgers in "his" joint, while all along, the public was duped into thinking that they just might bump into Demi and Bruce the next time they came to eat. In reality, these people had nothing to do with the business at all. They just collected the checks. Sort of like how Lance *****s-out his foundation's brand to other non-profits (for a fee, plus a personal kickback perhaps).

 

[thehog]

Much like how these yutzes supposedly "owned" Planet Hollywood. Well, they did (sort of). In exchange for large quantities of cash and stock, these stars lent their names and did personal appearances, etc. Arnie would go to an opening and hang out in the kitchen and taste burgers in "his" joint, while all along, the public was duped into thinking that they just might bump into Demi and Bruce the next time they came to eat. In reality, these people had nothing to do with the business at all. They just collected the checks. Sort of like how Lance *****s-out his foundation's brand to other non-profits (for a fee, plus a personal kickback perhaps).

At least those guys did it purely for cash. There no confusion on what is charity and what's not.

Armstrong appears under the guise thats it for charity or that his time is donated but its a long way from the reality.

I was thinking about this last night and realised this is the real scam of the .com. Many Armstrong supporters go on about there's no confusion on the .com and the .org because if you go to the wrong website there's nothing to buy. Of course there isn't. But the real genius is the scam is to tie the name Livestrong so close to one another no one can tell them apart. So when the Livestrong name appears at the research centre you assume its all for charity but is it? This is where the serious money is coming from.

When he sells and exercise bike with the name Livestrong you also assume its all for charity or is it?

There's no real way of telling. Each entity feeds the other but one entity pays Armstrong straight into his pocket the other straight into his travel, living expenses and consultancy. Its a win win.

The minute someone questions the relationship the word "awareness" is thrown in and the questions stop.

Comments like "This one's on me, this is on the house, I'm riding for free" were simply not true and were a way for the deception to continue. Its sad that so many people bought it.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

i kind of feel like if wonderboy wants to increase awareness, it would've been a good plan to go around the country to high schools and colleges and talk to athletes about being wary of putting steroids and hormones and who-knows-what-kind-of-chemicals into their systems. No telling what kind of side effects all this crap has on a growing body.

+ 28,000,000

I can't see how reputed organizations would pay Lance's fees for doing "charity work".

They can pay a celebrity market rates to appear at their event and get their name in the press, as long as it could reasonable be expected to advance their cause in some way.

We know that Lance gets a personal endorsement deal with corporate LAF "sponsors". So why wouldn't he do it with not-for-profit "sponsors" too? Because he is generous guy that truly cares about cancer sufferers?

@Hog, how were you able to confirm the info you presented in post 143?

 

[yourwelcome]

Excellent thread. Reminds me of the old days of the Clinic and some of the discussions we had. Keep up the good work guys.

Alpe - as an administrator, can you point out the doping content that means this thread belongs in the Clinic? Normally that criteria gets enforced pronto, so I assume it's here somewhere too.

If not, is there any reason this thread isn't under 'General'?

 

[Velocentric]

@Hog, how were you able to confirm the info you presented in post 143?

I'm not sure how much information Hog has been able to get his hands on (If you've had more luck than me Hog, would you PM me? Would love to compare notes), but if you'd like to PM me IWCIJ I'll fill you in on what I've found so far.

 

[Roland Rat]

I have to the say the "arrangement" is genius. I was duped.

It appears the Flinders research centre pays Livestrong to use the name "Livestrong" for the centre. The reason for this is apparently it will bring more notoriety to the centre and thus more donations. Armstrong himself then is paid to appear at the centre first by Livestrong in his direct consultancy fees and a second time by the centre itself at his usual public speaking rate.

Here's me thinking he donated the name to the centre!!

So you combine that lovely little racket with the Australian governments pay cheque then add on top his Radioshack salary along with the tab for the jet fuel and a holiday for Anna and the kids and the entire Australian expenditure turns into a lovely money spinner all in the name of awareness.

So you can understand why the government held back the payment structure from public view.

Hopefully Floyd's nugget is due to come soon and will spoil the party.

So this is presumably money from the Flinders centre that could otherwise be used in research? Wow. I knew LA had no conscience about taking money from the public but taking it from organisations at the front line of cancer research is a whole other ball game.

I guess being aware of what you're dying from is more important than trying to prevent you from dying.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Well we are talking about Armstrong, about whom even his defenders will now admit the obvious:

He's a doping jerk. He's tying his endorsements to Livestrong to make more money. He's narcissistic. He's kind of an odd looking hump back.

So it seems only prudent to keep it in the clinic. I think we can all agree on that.

Alpe - as an administrator, can you point out the doping content that means this thread belongs in the Clinic? Normally that criteria gets enforced pronto, so I assume it's here somewhere too.

If not, is there any reason this thread isn't under 'General'?

Hope this helps, as you seem to be struggling with this question, having brought it up several times now.