The Cav SKY drama

[Anonymous]

Cav and DB interviews on sky sports news
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xlm2hf_cavendish-signs-for-sky_sport

 

[Carlo Algatrensig]

Huh? When was Evans contesting flat stage sprints? I'm not following.

He Didn't contest them but I seem to remember that his team made sure he was always in the first 20 or 30 riders on each stage to make sure he stayed out of trouble

 

[just some guy]

He Didn't contest them but I seem to remember that his team made sure he was always in the first 20 or 30 riders on each stage to make sure he stayed out of trouble

Correct and my point. Add 3-4 more teams with 3-4 riders getting into the top 20-30 and we have a mess.

 

[spalco]

We'll certainly see what happens next year but I'm doubtful Sky can do both.

I'm dubious of Sky's chances to challenge for the TdF GC next year period, but leaving Wiggins, Froome and some water carrier/mobile wheel exchange off the front and letting the rest help Cav in the finish will take next to nothing out of their chances to win the GC imo.

 

[richwagmn]

Correct and my point. Add 3-4 more teams with 3-4 riders getting into the top 20-30 and we have a mess.

Ok. Good point. I seem to remember sprinter teams complaining about it too.

I still say it's not a good situation to be in. Do your riders protect Cav or Wiggins or try to do both. If Cav gets dropped on mountain stages, do you send riders back after him?

I honestly don't think Wiggins has much of a chance anyway but I think his chances are now even less.

 

[Zoncolan]

They'll have no problem working both for sprints and GC if they're smart in selecting the riders. Wiggins/Froome can make good use of Sivtsov in the mountains, and he can also help prepare the sprints. They need one more domestique, and the rest can focus on Cav. EBH should have a free role at some stages, obviously. Froome will help Wiggins when help is needed.

 

[masking_agent]

it may be feasible to support both Cav and Wiggo if Team Sky are properly structured ? I doubt it in today's world of cycling, but it was once achieved.

Telekom did it in 1996 and 1997 I believe ?

1996 - Riis Yellow / Zabel Green

1997 - Ullrich Yellow / Zabel Green

 

[just some guy]

so how did Telekom do it in 1996 and 1997 ?

1996 - Riis Yellow / Zabel Green

1997 - Ullrich Yellow / Zabel Green

Really asking that question.

PEDS and different style of racing and riders

 

[Carlo Algatrensig]

it may be feasible to support both Cav and Wiggo if Team Sky are properly structured ? I doubt it in today's world of cycling, but it was once achieved.

Telekom did it in 1996 and 1997 I believe ?

1996 - Riis Yellow / Zabel Green

1997 - Ullrich Yellow / Zabel Green

It helped that Zabel wasn't the dominant sprinter in the peleton like Cavendish is. The bulk of the chasing on flat stages was done by the teams of Cippolini and Steels and a few other sprinters if i remember correctly.

 

[masking_agent]

so what team can Wiggo possible think of going to ? Or is he stuck ?

 

[hatcher]

You'd have to be pretty tactically unimaginative to not come up with a 9 man squad that can work both for Cav and Wiggins. Just look at their 9 man Tour team this year, and replace Swift with Cavendish.

Wiggins, Froome, Uran, Sivstov, Rogers, Porte, EBH, Eisel, Cav.

As others have pointed out, on sprint stages the GC riders are being brought far closer to the front for far longer anyway. Wiggins and Froome were always at the front at the Vuelta, with Sutton using them as a pseudo-train.

Wiggins isn't a Contador who would like his entire squad drilling it up the climbs to shake off the weaker climbers. He'll want one, maybe two guys with him on the final climb when there are only 15 or 20 riders left.

They don't need to pull all day on the front for Cav, and they don't need to dominate in the mountains for Wiggins.

If Sky find themselves in a situation where they need the other 8 to protect the yellow then that is exactly what they'll do.

 

[Tei6chai]

Wiggins isn't a Contador who would like his entire squad drilling it up the climbs to shake off the weaker climbers. He'll want one, maybe two guys with him on the final climb when there are only 15 or 20 riders left.

They don't need to pull all day on the front for Cav, and they don't need to dominate in the mountains for Wiggins.

Excellent points, well made; especially the first.

When did Wiggins ever have more than 1 or 2 chums on a GT climb?

And when did he ever have the full team pulling for him on the flat?

If it was necessarily sprint team vs. GT team, why allow 9 men in a TdF team?

The racing would be much more exciting with 6 or 7.

 

[Dancing On The Pedals]

Well, after all the huffing and puffing, it's exactly what was expected, so no great surprises there. In light of the leaked Tour route, Wiggins will surely prioritise that - he's unlikely to ever get such a good chance to at least get on the podium in Paris (not forgetting Sky's stated aim of a British tour winner in 5 years).
What that then means for Cav is worth considering. He certainly doesn't need a 9 man lead out to deliver him to the line, but he will need the team to work to ensure bunch finishes (along with Garmin etc.) Can Sky split their team accordingly to accommodate both Cav and a GC (be it Wiggins or Froome)? In theory, yes. Somebody posted a while ago suggesting splitting the team into 3: Cav, EBH, Eisel; Wiggins, Froome, Uran; Sivtsov, Rogers, Stannard (all hypothetical obviously). Imho, this spreads them too thinly, and the domestiques will be exhausted if they are being asked to work and control the stage in some way almost everyday. I think this is too big a chance for Sky to get a Tour podium for them to pass it up chasing Cav wins. Of course, he may just focus on the Olympics - as that will get him maximum BRITISH publicity (as opposed to another Green jersey) as Wiggins implied in that interview after the Worlds.
Even though I am a fan of Cav (yes, hate me ) and there are obvious benefits for both parties, as I've said before, I don't think it's necessarily the match made in heaven that people seem to think it is.

 

[Captain_Obvious]

Just real quick: what bike is cav going to be riding on with Sky? Not sure if I read that part in the CN article.

 

[maltiv]

I think what people don't understand is that if Cav's team doesn't chase on flat stages, the breakaway will succeed 95% of the time. And how many times hasn't HTC went in to the TDF with one or two "GC contenders", whom they at first claim shall not take part in the leadout, yet they end up doing tons of leadouts before the mountains even start? Then Wiggins can be the 1319320492th rider to figure out that you can't combine doing leadout on every single flat stage with riding for the GC and will cry about that in the media after finishing 52nd.

 

[Tei6chai]

I think what people don't understand is that if Cav's team doesn't chase on flat stages, the breakaway will succeed 95% of the time.

I think some of us think that this psuedo statistic can't be reconciled with the facts.

I've seen plenty of flat stages when HTC did not pull all day, and very few where the entire HTC team pulled on their own for much of the race.

What we understand is that other teams with a sprinter simply can't rely on the best sprinters team to do all the work, nor can they simply give up and concede the win to Cav without a challenge.

 

[Dancing On The Pedals]

Will Cav expect the same kind of service, ie. GC riders chasing breaks/driving at the front in the last 10km etc. as he got at HTC? If so, Wiggins will be really p*ssed off

 

[LouieLouie]

EBH needs a new team before his career goes down the drain. Even Vacansoleil would be far better than staying with team ******bag now that the king of clowns arrives.

 

[Dancing On The Pedals]

Another question, didn't EBH leave HTC originally so that he didn't end up leading out Cav?

 

[maltiv]

Which, presumably explains:

Team Sky's Bradley Wiggins on Cavendish: "I think I speak for everyone in the squad when I say that we're all delighted to have Cav joining us at Team Sky. He is the best sprinter in the world and has an energy and passion for cycling that is infectious. Team Sky has enjoyed fantastic second season and Mark's signing is another statement of our intent for next year and beyond."

Could be fibbing ... but that's going to be a difficult one to retract.

Those press statements are pure bull**** though. Look what EBH apparently said:

"I know from my time riding with Mark at Columbia-HTC what a special talent he is and it’s great that we are back on the same team.

"Mark is a good guy, delivers when it matters and is another weapon in our squad for next year."

First of all he would never have worded himself in that way, secondly he admitted in 2009 that he left HTC because he didn't want his career to be about leading out Cavendish. It's quite a joke that the only guy who was even remotely close to Cavendish on champs-elysees this year will lead him out next year.

 

[Richeypen]

it may be feasible to support both Cav and Wiggo if Team Sky are properly structured ? I doubt it in today's world of cycling, but it was once achieved.

Telekom did it in 1996 and 1997 I believe ?

1996 - Riis Yellow / Zabel Green

1997 - Ullrich Yellow / Zabel Green

More up to date and more relevant given the riders was surely last year Vuelta. Cav winning the points jersey and Velits 3rd on GC.

 

[hatcher]

I think what people don't understand is that if Cav's team doesn't chase on flat stages, the breakaway will succeed 95% of the time. And how many times hasn't HTC went in to the TDF with one or two "GC contenders", whom they at first claim shall not take part in the leadout, yet they end up doing tons of leadouts before the mountains even start? Then Wiggins can be the 1319320492th rider to figure out that you can't combine doing leadout on every single flat stage with riding for the GC and will cry about that in the media after finishing 52nd.

Other teams knew HTC had to chase. Nobody was ever buying their GC ambitions. Sky won't have to. GreenEdge will absolutely 100% positively pull back every flat stage they can.

The only stage Wiggins will do leadout on is the Champs-Elysees.

 

[hatcher]

EBH needs a new team before his career goes down the drain. Even Vacansoleil would be far better than staying with team ******bag now that the king of clowns arrives.

Why?

EBH shouldn't be targeting the same races as Cav. In the Tour he should be after entirely different stages.

 

[Richeypen]

Other teams knew HTC had to chase. Nobody was ever buying their GC ambitions. Sky won't have to. GreenEdge will absolutely 100% positively pull back every flat stage they can.

The only stage Wiggins will do leadout on is the Champs-Elysees.

Add to this the fact that Griepel and Farrar both won stages this year. A lot of teams will be wanting to make sure each flat stage ends in a sprint

 

[hatcher]

Those press statements are pure bull**** though. Look what EBH apparently said:

First of all he would never have worded himself in that way, secondly he admitted in 2009 that he left HTC because he didn't want his career to be about leading out Cavendish. It's quite a joke that the only guy who was even remotely close to Cavendish on champs-elysees this year will lead him out next year.

I thought you didn't want EBH to be a sprinter.