The Chris Squared Thread

[red_flanders]

You know the answer to whether Froome is doping though, don't you?

Assuming there's a point to this question/statement, I'd suggest it's better asked/stated in the appropriate thread.

 

[thehog]

I am sorry you are edge and nervous. Maybe you are feeling guilty for inventing all this nonsense? Have a beer. Relax.

You need to get your stories straight. You claim he has a knee issue because he shifted his weight for a few minutes....are you now saying he did not have an issue with his alignment?

Not my numbers. If you read through this thread you will find many links and sources.....but you chose to ignore them and focus on Tirreno Adriatico

Not my story. Just the facts. I'm not the one manipulating media reports to fit

Let's have the weights. I thought you said it was simple?

What is Honer's weight, what is Froome's?

Should be straight forward, yes?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Semantic distraction aside who do you think iss the faster climber, Froome at the Tour or Horner at the Vuelta?

I have insufficient data to compare. To make it an apples to apples comparison you'd have to reduce the variables affecting climbing speeds, including:

* race day tactics
* buffer to next best rider and in-stage competition (ie how hard are you being pushed and how important it is to perform on that stage)
* conditions (weather, technical, etc)
* fatigue pre-climbs of note - ie distance to climb, etc
* climb of note attributes
etc

I would not be surprised if Horner was a better climber, given he has a smaller build and weighs less - the classic climber build. He would probably also have less non-muscle mass (skin, bone, etc) as a % of his body weight, and present less surface area when climbing at speed.

However, trying to decide which rider was a better climber seems to be missing the wood for the trees.

IMO what was more ridiculous was either of them winning a GT, not how fast they rode up climbs. I do not understand the fascination with trying to win that argument.

 

[Race Radio]

Should be straight forward, yes?

Should be straight forward......like pretending Horner at Tirreno Adriatico was the same as Horner at the Vuelta.

 

[thehog]

Should be straight forward......like pretending Horner at Tirreno Adriatico was the same as Horner at the Vuelta.

Someone doesn't want to tell us the body weights used.

Methinks it's "possible" there something in that

I've not stated my position per TA v Vuelta. Therefore nothing to pretend.

 

[sittingbison]

Gentle(wo)men,
seven members were recently given a short holiday for bickering in the Sky thread. Some of them are now participating on THIS thread and should know better. And some others have been well and truly advised to also give it a miss.

Keep it up and I will have no hesitation in swinging the axe.

BTW I would be VERY careful about being disingenuous with statements and denials of previous statements. The internet has a long memory

cheers
bison

 

[Race Radio]

Someone doesn't want to tell us the body weights used.

I already gave you Horner's weight, I don't know why you pretend I have not.

We used multiple SRM files and rider weights to calculate it at 62, possibly as low as 61-61.5. You called this math "Manipulation".......until Horner confirmed that our calculations were indeed correct. Math is not magic

If you believe that Froome is lying about his weight then I suggest you reach out to your extensive contacts in the Pro Cycling world and get weights and SRM files from multiple riders, then calculate Froome's weight.

 

[thehog]

I already gave you Horner's weight, I don't know why you pretend I have not.

We used multiple SRM files and rider weights to calculate it at 62, possibly as low as 61-61.5. You called this math "Manipulation".......until Horner confirmed that our calculations were indeed correct. Math is not magic

If you believe that Froome is lying about his weight then I suggest you reach out to your extensive contacts in the Pro Cycling world and get weights and SRM files from multiple riders, then calculate Froome's weight.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

62kg. Horner confirmed he started the Vuelta 64kg and drops to 62kg. Why use 62kg only?

I know you compare the "known" body weights of other riders to make that conclusion. Fair enough but that is an estimation not fact. Especially when Horner says he was 64kg to 62kg - which to lose weight in a GT is very normal. I mean he wouldn't drop form 62kg to 58kg.

The other part is Froome. My cycling contacts have nothing to do with it.

If you do a comparison of Horner at an estimated 62kg (constant) and Froome at his "official" 69kg then you need to perform the same method you did on Horner.

ie you have to take the SRM files of what you have and estimate Froome's body weight as well.

Or have you taken it at face value and believe 69kg is his weight?

Otherwise your analysis falls down. You can't compare their wattages Vuelta to Tour.

Is an estimation at best.

Thoughts?

 

[Race Radio]

Thanks. Much appreciated.

62kg. Horner confirmed he started the Vuelta 64kg and drops to 62kg. Why use 62kg only?

Wow, and you are complaining about semantics and you invent this?

Horner never said "he started the Vuelta 64kg and drops to 62kg" In fact in the 2nd week of the Vuelta he said he was 65kg. You are welcome to believe a rider fighting for the podium loses 3kg in the last week but don't expect most to agree with you....regardless that would put him at 62kg, or in my book 61, on Angrilu.

If you believe Froome is, like Horner, lying about his weight then by all means share with us your calculations.....or as you like to call them, manipulations.

 

[thehog]

Wow, and you are complaining about semantics and you invent this?

Horner never said "he started the Vuelta 64kg and drops to 62kg" In fact in the 2nd week of the Vuelta he said he was 65kg. You are welcome to believe a rider fighting for the podium loses 3kg in the last week but don't expect most to agree with you....regardless that would put him at 62kg, or in my book 61, on Angrilu.

If you believe Froome is, like Horner, lying about his weight then by all means share with us your calculations.....or as you like to call them, manipulations.

Work with me here. I think it benefits the whole forum. Forget me for the moment.

You mention the talk that Horner confirmed his weight, yes? That's the conformation?

Below is what was live tweeted from the event. Same guy posts a photo with his arm around Horner at the end of the talk.

Additionally what weight did Honer's SRM say released from the Vuelta?

Now in your analysis of Horner v Froome was Froome set at? 69kg?

Because it matters a lot. .5 on weight makes a tremendous difference.

Is Froome 69kg in the comparative analysis? More? Less?

 

[Race Radio]

Work with me here. I think it benefits the whole forum. Forget me for the moment.

You mention the talk that Horner confirmed his weight, yes? That's the conformation?

Below is what was live tweeted from the event. Same guy posts a photo with his arm around Horner at the end of the talk.

Additionally what weight did Honer's SRM say released from the Vuelta?

Now in your analysis of Horner v Froome was Froome set at? 69kg?

Because it matters a lot. .5 on weight makes a tremendous difference.

Is Froome 69kg in the comparative analysis? More? Less?

Thanks for proving my point. Jeff's tweet does not say

Horner confirmed he started the Vuelta 64kg and drops to 62kg.

Why did you pretend he did?

Horner's SRM claiming 65kg

http://www.srm.de/news/road-cycling/vuelta-a-espana-stage-18/

Guercilena says 64-65kg

http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance...orts-chris-horner-raises-questions-vuelta-win

The team insists that he's racing the Vuelta between 141 and 143 pounds (64-65kg), but he appears to be thinner than that.

 

[thehog]

Thanks for proving point. Jeff's tweet does not say



Why did you pretend he did?

Horner's SRM claiming 65kg

http://www.srm.de/news/road-cycling/vuelta-a-espana-stage-18/

Guercilena says 64-65kg

http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance...orts-chris-horner-raises-questions-vuelta-win

Thanks. SRM states "approximate".

And what have you set Froome's weight at? That's the key here. Per your analysis you have Horner at 62kg and Froome at..... ?

 

[sittingbison]

its only an hour but already time to do a thehog:

Gentle(wo)men,
seven members were recently given a short holiday for bickering in the Sky thread. Some of them are now participating on THIS thread and should know better. And some others have been well and truly advised to also give it a miss.

Keep it up and I will have no hesitation in swinging the axe.

BTW I would be VERY careful about being disingenuous with statements and denials of previous statements. The internet has a long memory

cheers
bison

good post bison

take note of bolded

 

[Race Radio]

Thanks. SRM states "approximate".

And what have you set Froome's weight at? That's the key here. Per your analysis you have Horner at 62kg and Froome at..... ?

and Guercilena said 64-65.

Froome told Eurosport during the 2013 Tour de France he was 66kg. If you feel he is lying then please provide your calculations......or as you call them "manipulations"

 

[thehog]

and Guercilena said 64-65.

Froome told Eurosport during the 2013 Tour de France he was 66kg. If you feel he is lying then please provide your calculations......but of course you will not, just more deliberate distortions.

Thanks.

So 62kg vs. 66kg. Horner 62kg vs. Froome 66kg per your analysis Horner v Froome.

Let's leave it that as both us will banned and that's no good for anyone.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Froome told Eurosport during the 2013 Tour de France he was 66kg. If you feel he is lying then please provide your calculations......or as you call them "manipulations"

66kg?

Not 69kg?

 

[sittingbison]

Thanks.

So 62kg vs. 66kg. Horner 62kg vs. Froome 66kg per your analysis Horner v Froome.

Let's leave it that as both us will banned and that's no good for anyone.

good post hog

 

[Race Radio]

66kg?

Not 69kg?

http:/video.eurosport.se/cykel/ett-ar-med-chris-froome_vid306434/video.shtml

66kg

 

[thehog]

good post hog

My view was it was and interesting discussion that both were learning from as well as the forum.

But mods rule and I'm cool with that.

I'm off for some cheesecake & wine

 

[Dear Wiggo]

http:/video.eurosport.se/cykel/ett-ar-med-chris-froome_vid306434/video.shtml

66kg

Thanks. That is amazingly light. I'll have to watch the video later.

 

[sittingbison]

My view was it was and interesting discussion that both were learning from as well as the forum.

But mods rule and I'm cool with that.

I'm off for some cheesecake & wine

indeed we all now know that the actual weights were about 3kg lighter than advertised

And regardless of arguments Pappy vs Dawg, I find this in itself of the most interest as it drastically skews the data sets of power/weight towards the "mutant" end of the spectrum than hovering around the "maximum (known) human limit" end of the spectrum (which is beyond suspicious for these two in particular)

 

[ChewbaccaD]

indeed we all now know that the actual weights were about 3kg lighter than advertised

And regardless of arguments Pappy vs Dawg, I find this in itself of the most interest as it drastically skews the data sets of power/weight towards the "mutant" end of the spectrum than hovering around the "maximum (known) human limit" end of the spectrum (which is beyond suspicious for these two in particular)

"At some point in time, clean performances will surpass the doped performances in the past."

Dave Brailsford.

 

[proffate]

"At some point in time, clean performances will surpass the doped performances in the past."

Dave Brailsford.

That's a pretty open-ended statement. Perhaps Team Sky has a eugenics program in the works, and they're evolving a new breed of superhuman spider monkey bike pedalers. That "some point in time" could be 10,000 years hence.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

That's a pretty open-ended statement. Perhaps Team Sky has a eugenics program in the works, and they're evolving a new breed of superhuman spider monkey bike pedalers. That "some point in time" could be 10,000 years hence.

Haven't you heard, it already happened.

 

[Benotti69]

Haven't you heard, it already happened.

It only happened if Froome is/was clean and that aint so