The Chris Squared Thread

[thehog]

Odd. The Doctors and the Health company (Tenex) were happy with the "difficult race in Italy" by way of official press release.

Appears they know it caused his issue.

"Following a difficult race in Italy, my knee started hurting to the point I couldn't ride or even walk without pain. I was diagnosed with IT Band Friction Syndrome and tried every non-invasive therapy I could find. Despite months of treatment, my injury persisted, and I was worried that my career as a professional rider was over. I heard about the Tenex Health TX procedure. Since it is such a safe procedure, my doctor and physical therapist suggested that we try it. I had the procedure on May 23rd, and it was so quick. I was in and out in less than an hour. My pain was almost gone in two days. Once I started riding in late June, I could tell that the injury was finally gone. In my first race back at the Tour of Utah, I finished second overall. I then headed to compete in the Tour de Spain feeling better than ever. Thanks to Tenex Health, I made it back on the bike and into the history books with a Grand Tour victory at 41 years of age!"

Dr. Charles Peterson of Mesa, AZ, the physician treating Chris Horner, stated, "I work with professional athletes on a regular basis, and it is important that I can present a treatment plan that gets them back to the elite level they were before the injury. It is an incredible comfort as a physician to have a procedure that will help these athletes. The Tenex Health procedure exceeded all of Mr. Horner's and my expectations, and it has been so fulfilling to see him succeed and reach his potential. If the procedure worked this well for him, at the highest levels of elite cycling, I am confident it can help anyone with tendon or soft tissue injury."


http://globenewswire.com/news-relea...-the-Ability-to-Win.html#sthash.4J1ugNIJ.dpuf

 

[Race Radio]

Interesting. So you know better than Horner what caused Horner's injury? I must be missing something because that can't really be what you're saying.

Yeah, you are missing something.

Check the links in my posts. After visiting several specialists Horner clearly states his injury is iliotibial band friction syndrome. He says it is possibly an alignment issue. That makes sense as it is the most common cause....not riding in the rain

 

[roundabout]

How many people ended up injured after that stage?

Horner and?

Pretty sure it means that rain and steep climbs alone are not enough to cause injury.

 

[Race Radio]

Odd. The Doctors and the Health company (Tenex) were happy with the "difficult race in Italy" by way of official press release.

Appears they know it caused his issue.

Thanks for proving my point. He was clearly not on form during that "difficult race in Italy". Would be silly to pretend that he was on the same level as the Vuelta. Silly.

Can you point on the part were doctor says the cause was riding in the rain?

Thanks

 

[Race Radio]

How many people ended up injured after that stage?

Horner and?

Pretty sure it means that rain and steep climbs alone are not enough to cause injury.

If it was all of Belgium would walk with a limp

 

[thehog]

Rain?

Context is always very important. The rain is significant by means of staying in the saddle & adjusting ones position so the back tyre didn't spin.

Thus "Adjusting ones position" on a very steep climb after 6 hours in the cold is the crux.

The rain was a contributor to the adjustment. Cause and effect.

...it had been cold, it was coming to the end of a tough six hour race. The climb is so steep that I had to adjust my position dramatically on the bike, so that the back tyre didn’t spin…you have to keep weight on the back tyre. Also because the gearing was so large, I had to stand up because you are pushing twenty rpms up this climb.

 

[Race Radio]

Rain?

Context is always very important. The rain is significant by means of staying in the saddle & adjusting ones position so the back tyre didn't spin.

Thus "Adjusting ones position" on a very steep climb after 6 hours in the cold is the crux.

The rain was a contributor to the adjustment. Cause and effect.

If Horner is out for 6 months because he rode for a few minutes with extra setback he shouldn't be a Pro.

By the time the pain materializes the imbalance that causes it has been around for a while. Finally the body says "No Mas"

Do you really believe Horner in TA last year was the same as Horner at the Vuelta? Really?

 

[thehog]

How many people ended up injured after that stage?

Horner and?

Pretty sure it means that rain and steep climbs alone are not enough to cause injury.

Considering most had to walk up the climb of 27% along with the race director apologising for the stage, I think you can take it was too much.

and



But the gradient alone wasn’t the problem: (note rain).

the road was very narrow and with an uneven surface. This means if one rider stalls, whether because of their legs or a crunched gear change, then others nearby can’t escape and have to stop.

a big factor was the rain, the started dry but the clouds rolled in. Riders trying to stand on the pedals found their wheels slipping. More and more teams are running 25mm tires this year and even with lower pressure there was plenty of slippage

Explained here in detail: http://inrng.com/2013/03/sant-elpidio-al-mare-climb/

 

[Race Radio]

I think you can take it was too much.

How many riders were out for 6 months after that stage?

One. Chris Horner.

I'll ask again, do you really think the Horner at TA last year was the same as the Horner at the Vuelta? Really.

 

[thehog]

If Horner is out for 6 months because he rode for a few minutes with extra setback he shouldn't be a Pro.

The climb was part of circuit and repeated multiple times. As described "getting off and doing squats" then riding for 6 hours.

Shouldn't be a Pro? I do know one who shouldn't be a Doctor!

 

[Panda Claws]

Considering most had to walk up the climb of 27% along with the race director apologising for the stage, I think you can take it was too much.

and



But the gradient alone wasn’t the problem: (note rain).



Explained here in detail: http://inrng.com/2013/03/sant-elpidio-al-mare-climb/

Is that Paolo Bettini on the upperleft side of that pic?

 

[thehog]

Is that Paolo Bettini on the upperleft side of that pic?

Texting Alsono?

 

[thehog]

How many riders were out for 6 months after that stage?

One. Chris Horner.

I'll ask again, do you really think the Horner at TA last year was the same as the Horner at the Vuelta? Really.

How many riders were out of 6 months?

Does this answer the question?

The day had started out sunny but the heavy rains which had prevailed during so much of the race returned. Combined with the short and vicious climbs of the day, many riders decided to abandon rather than risk injury or illness. The most notable drop-out was Andy Schleck, who left the race in the sunshine less than 50km after the start.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tirreno-adriatico-2013/stage-6/results

Note "DNF" - Over 60 withdrawals at the first feed at 50km. Those who stayed in the race, walked.

and 6 months? Was riding in late June after operation on May 23rd.

--

TA in 2012 on Prati di Tivo Horner rode 39.12
TA 2013 on Prati di Tivo Horner rode 33 seconds faster.

Froome in 2013 rode Prati in 38:22 which is almost a minute faster than Horner’s time in 2012.

If Horner was injured like is being suggested on said climb in 2013 then he magically got faster.

And to the point even when Horner was faster from 2012 to 2013 Froome still beat him on a 14km climb.


Is it worth persisting with this? I think not.

 

[red_flanders]

Yeah, you are missing something.

Check the links in my posts. After visiting several specialists Horner clearly states his injury is iliotibial band friction syndrome. He says it is possibly an alignment issue. That makes sense as it is the most common cause....not riding in the rain

Don't know why that matters. Clearly he did not experience ill effects until the day he reported experiencing ill effects.

So it's all a lot of talk which goes in circles around a simple fact. He was not feeling injured when the climb(s) in question occurred. As he himself clearly states.

 

[Race Radio]

Is it worth persisting with this? I think not.

Good that you have come to your senses. Most can see the Horner in TA last year, or this year, was not the same as Horner in the Vuelta. Pretending that he was the same rider is silly.

 

[Race Radio]

Don't know why that matters. Clearly he did not experience ill effects until the day he reported experiencing ill effects.

So it's all a lot of talk which goes in circles around a simple fact. He was not feeling injured when the climb(s) in question occurred. As he himself clearly states.

The simple fact is Horner is not a doctor. He looked at it in a very simplistic way...."Knee hurts, must be rain" He persisted with this self diagnosis and it did not get better. Eventually he went to see several specialist and found that the real cause was likely an imbalance. No surprise as that is well supported by many experts.

No worries folks, you can still ride in the rain.....but if you are an old man like Horner I suggest frequent stretching and make sure you have a good bike fit, otherwise overtime you lose power and have issues that are hard to fix

 

[Netserk]

Oh come on, no one says he was the same. What a straw man.

 

[thehog]

Good that you have come to your senses. Most can see the Horner in TA last year, or this year, was not the same as Horner in the Vuelta. Pretending that he was the same rider is silly.

Forgive me.

You're making statements as if that what was being stated by myself or others. First rain being the cause of Horner's injury. No one said or implied that bar yourself. You create the question as if people are using that as part of their arguments. They're not. Only you.

I've not stated as such. You've directly taken a well thought out post with data and links addressing the point per "no one else was injured" and manipulated it's contents and actual meaning. Similarly with the dropping of "possibly" in one of Horner's statements to change it's meaning. Why keep doing this? Like his weight. He's 61kg and 65kg but no such record.

Now If you want to table a new question as;

"Was Horner faster at the Vuelta '13 than TA '13" ?

The best way to answer your question is with another question;

Was Froome faster at the Tour '13 than he was TA '13?

or

Was Cancellera faster at Flanders than at Strade Bianche?

etc.

In there I believe you might find your own answer. But I'm sure you'll think up more questions to ask to avoid the obvious


Why is there something and not nothing? Is a good place to start.

 

[Race Radio]

Oh come on, no one says he was the same. What a straw man.

Have you been reading the thread?

My point is clear. The numbers support that Horner at the Vuelta climbed faster then Froome at the Tour. For some reason this rubs some the wrong way. Maybe its, to use your word, bias? They want to deflect the discussion to a stage in TA or who is the bigger doper. Not sure why they toss out these strawmen.

 

[Netserk]

Have you been reading the thread?

My point is clear. The numbers support that Horner at the Vuelta climbed faster then Froome at the Tour. For some reason this rubs some the wrong way. Maybe its, to use your word, bias? They want to deflect the discussion to a stage in TA or who is the bigger doper. Not sure why they toss out these strawmen.

Yes I have read this thread.

Who have said in this thread that Horner was just as strong in TA as in the Vuelta?

 

[thehog]

Um, why are you confused? I am not pretending either of them is on form, it is clear they are not. I also didn't pretend that Horner was on form at last years TA when he dropped out with a knee injury.

Have you been reading the thread?

My point is clear. The numbers support that Horner at the Vuelta climbed faster then Froome at the Tour. For some reason this rubs some the wrong way. Maybe its, to use your word, bias? They want to deflect the discussion to a stage in TA or who is the bigger doper. Not sure why they toss out these strawmen.

Ummm, it was you who brought up last years TA stage and pretended that Horner dropped out

I guess you're part of 'they' ?

And to be honest your point hasn't been clear at all. It's gone in circles.


I think with that it's a pointless discussion. It's gone into baitingville. Not a nice place.

 

[Race Radio]

Forgive me.

I forgive you.

Back on topic. You have used the example of Froome beating Horner by 15 seconds at TA last year as proof Froome is the faster climber. Do you really think that Horner at TA was the same as Horner at the Vuelta?

It is a simple quesiton, don't know why you keep ignoring it and tossing out strawmen

 

[thehog]

I forgive you.

Back on topic. You have used the example of Froome beating Horner by 15 seconds at TA last year as proof Froome is the faster climber. Do you really think that Horner at TA was the same as Horner at the Vuelta?

It is a simple quesiton, don't know why you keep ignoring it and tossing out strawmen

But I've not used it as an example or proof. I used it to explain he wasn't injured on the Prati stage. Which was in response to you saying he was injured and therefore wasn't reading at peak form for that time of the year.

The question whether he was faster at the Vuelta than TA is one that you've newly introduced.

I responded with the question; was Froome faster at the Tour than TA?

 

[Race Radio]

Ummm, it was you who brought up last years TA stage .

Really? I brought it up? It this point it is clear your interest is conflict, not to discussion

So I still come back to Prati Di Tivo in 2013.

This is why I come back to Prati Di Tivo in March.

I've consistently stated Prati di Tivo is the best example

That’s why Prati di Tivo stage 4 is the best to go on.

Just proves that Prati Di Tivo is our best indication of C v C

But Prati di Tivo is the best Froome v Horner we have to go on.

Again, do you really think Horner last year on Prati di Tivo is the same as Horner at the Vuelta? Really?

 

[thehog]

Really? I brought it up? It this point it is clear your interest is conflict, not to discussion

Again, do you really think Horner last year on Prati di Tivo is the same as Horner at the Vuelta? Really?

Accusing one of causing conflict is in itself causing conflict.

You did bring it up, yes. Just a short while ago. Sorry.

And again context is always important.

As I continually state comparing 142km stage with a 5km straight-line climb at 500m altitude to a 232km stage with 22km climb at 2000m is fraught with data integrity issues.

However you have this odd theme appearing. Each and everytime you get Horner racing Froome physically in he same race, Froome wins, not by a little but a lot.

Take 2012 Tour, Froome on equal climbs, one on one, beats Horner. Prati 2013 as you linked, 1 on 1 at 14km, Froome wins.

It happens each and every time. Froome beats Horner on climbs in the races they've raced together.

The question you're really asking is not 'Horner v Froome' but can you compare the Vuelta climbs to the Tour climbs?

Longer stages, longer climbs, higher altitudes to shorter stages, shorter climbs, lower altitudes.

I think if you asked yourself that question, you might surprise yourself with the answer.

If you want the question and thus the analysis to be Froome v Horner then you have to include all the data and when you do that you find Froome beats another every time it's same climb, same wind, same race, same weather etc.

What I see you doing is trying to drop Prati because you somehow know Honer's injury better than he did. Just like you know his weight despite what he knows himself

Might be something in that