The Climb (Froome's first autobiography)

[Bumeington]

Yes I was also wondering ... "the lab where I could have my BP tests done", what on earth does that mean?

I think it's the quarterly health checks that pro cyclists do which traditionally would include hct test, so I guess now they take passport data then too - or at least they are measuring some blood parameters, maybe they don't go into the passport but easy to see how Froome could get confused

 

[zigmeister]

Yeah you heard it he was towed around France lol, Wiggo fans thinking he is as good as Froome haha.

Wiggo had 2 minutes over Froome on ITTs. The final Stage 19 ITT 54KM, Wiggo gained an additional 30 seconds over Froome with only 8KM more distance than the previous ITT, where he gained about 1 minutes over Froome. Now, there are a lot of mountain stages. If Froome was on another team, and he was up against Brad, could he have taken more than two minutes if Wiggo had help like Porte instead of Froome to help climb? We will never know.

But Froome's job was to help Wiggo...we've seen this time and again. Van Garderen/Evans 2013 TDF? Yet, you don't hear/see TJ being a D-bag team mate running around in the media, his girlfriend tweeting stupid nonsense whining that he should be the team leader. BMC management makes the call on that...not a crybaby rider.

This is what has really set Froome apart, and it has gone full tilt with this book. He comes off extremely arrogant, selfish, condescending and the list goes on of adjectives we could use about him...all brought upon himself.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I think it's the quarterly health checks that pro cyclists do which traditionally would include hct test, so I guess now they take passport data then too - or at least they are measuring some blood parameters, maybe they don't go into the passport but easy to see how Froome could get confused

http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI3/layout.asp?MenuId=MTI1ODI&LangId=1

http://www.wada-ama.org/en/Science-...Laboratories/Accredited-Lab-Locations/Africa/

http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI1/layout.asp?MenuId=MTUzNDc&LangId=1

Where is that lab in Kenya?

 

[Pack Fodder]

Wiggo had 2 minutes over Froome on ITTs. The final Stage 19 ITT 54KM, Wiggo gained an additional 30 seconds over Froome with only 8KM more distance than the previous ITT, where he gained about 1 minutes over Froome. Now, there are a lot of mountain stages. If Froome was on another team, and he was up against Brad, could he have taken more than two minutes if Wiggo had help like Porte instead of Froome to help climb? We will never know.

But Froome's job was to help Wiggo...we've seen this time and again. Van Garderen/Evans 2013 TDF? Yet, you don't hear/see TJ being a D-bag team mate running around in the media, his girlfriend tweeting stupid nonsense whining that he should be the team leader. BMC management makes the call on that...not a crybaby rider.

This is what has really set Froome apart, and it has gone full tilt with this book. He comes off extremely arrogant, selfish, condescending and the list goes on of adjectives we could use about him...all brought upon himself.

I have managed to read most of the book now. It's neither terribly good, nor as bad as some here make out - that appears to be a mere confirmation bias. But it does make Froome look extraordinarily selfish. not unpleasant; he seems to have some charm; but hidiously selfish.

But Above all, I do find the attitude of Froome to Wiggins in 2012 and after extraordinary.

Set aside any dislike of Wiggins for a moment. Froome seems to ignore the fact that Wiggins has been the 'leader' since 2010, and had to deal with the pressure since then; through the disaster and humiliation of 2010, through the broken collorbone derailing him in 2011 when after the paris-nice and dauphine wiggins was clearly a contender, through the 2011 vuelta comeback which, for all his fading in the real grippy mountains showed wiggins was there or thereabouts still, and through the extraordinary start to 2012.

He seems to think all the planning and work that Sky clearly put into Wiggins winning 2012 over three years should be set aside because Froome, having done little since the Vuelta, suddenly found form on Belles Filles, and that all that work of three years should just be fired out the window at the very point its about to succeed for what would be, lets remember, Sky's first win in a GT. That's practically suicidal from a team perspective.

I simply find that hard to credit. I read that froome felt Wiggins was difficult because he was quiet and moody. Compared to Hinault, do you think? or, God help us, Armstrong?

Of course Wiggins post Tour strop paints him in a terrible light as a general thing - but given after years of work, he was almost sabotaged by Froome's impatience (after all, given the relative ages, Froome must have known his time was going to come anyway) - I'm not sure his strops with Froome in particular are really all that unjustified.

 

[thehog]

Can someone explain anti-doping / biological passport protocol to me? Froome says the lab he went to for his BP tests were adjacent to Dr Charles Chunge's place (CTTM), but Kenya has no accredited WADA lab?

Does this mean the BP org (CADF?) sent testers to Froome, who then took him to a lab to withdraw the blood? And then sent it to South Africa or another WADA approved lab?

Yes, I thought that part was interesting as well.

And I'm not seeing anything adjacent other than the women's hospital which could extract blood but are they WADA accredited?

 

[spalco]

Haha, reading the excerpts posted in this thread, it seems the book was a terrible idea. Froome isn't a dawg, he's a honey badger, doesn't give a ****.

You guys are misunderstanding the Alberto-coffee thing imo, as I understand it, that's just the image of Contador he created in his own mind to motivate himself during training.

But yeah, a lot of the other stuff really looks bad.

 

[sittingbison]

The one thing Dawg is NOT is the honey badger!!

Take that back or be forever damned !!.

PS look at my locale...

 

[Catwhoorg]

Just a note of the process.

A blood collection facility has to meet certain guidelines.
(section 5.3 of the blood collection guidelines).

Obviously, every place where blood is drawn cannot be WADA accredited, as this will include athletes houses/apartments.

The blood is then packaged in a insulated container (along with a temperature recording device) for shipment to the appropriate lab.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Just a note of the process.

A blood collection facility has to meet certain guidelines.
(section 5.3 of the blood collection guidelines).

Obviously, every place where blood is drawn cannot be WADA accredited, as this will include athletes houses/apartments.

The blood is then packaged in a insulated container (along with a temperature recording device) for shipment to the appropriate lab.

So when the testers visit Henao in Colombia, and call him to say they will be an hour late - are they collecting blood at his place? Or taking him to a blood collection place?

And does this mean the quarterly health tests are included in the ~3 BP tests on average, per rider per year that are mentioned as part of the BP testing? Or is it just a health check and the blood parameter result (?) does not get used as part of the BP?

 

[Catwhoorg]

So when the testers visit Henao in Colombia, and call him to say they will be an hour late - are they collecting blood at his place? Or taking him to a blood collection place?

And does this mean the quarterly health tests are included in the ~3 BP tests on average, per rider per year that are mentioned as part of the BP testing? Or is it just a health check and the blood parameter result (?) does not get used as part of the BP?

For the first:
The location that he specified for his "hour window" (presumably his house, I don't know anything of his domestic arrangements)would be what I expect. Escorting someone to a different location isn't common, but it is within the guidelines. A good reasons to do this would be to ensure that the samples once taken, can get to a lab within the appropriate window. (both total for testing and for the cooling pack life)

For the second:
No idea. I don't even know if health checks are part of the program any more. (or if teams do this entirely internally now).


I haven't been following the conversation much here the last few days, I just saw the question about being WADA approved in regards sample collection.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Oh and a note to comment, that yes the testers shouldn't have called Henao.

If they don't get there outside the window, and he is there, they can still ask for a OOC test. If he isn't then they can try again another day (but it wouldn't be one of Henao's strikes)

Calling him was an incorrect way of handling it, and I hope they got retrained in procedures.

 

[thehog]

Just a note of the process.

A blood collection facility has to meet certain guidelines.
(section 5.3 of the blood collection guidelines).

Obviously, every place where blood is drawn cannot be WADA accredited, as this will include athletes houses/apartments.

The blood is then packaged in a insulated container (along with a temperature recording device) for shipment to the appropriate lab.

Yes. This sounds correct. But you wouldn't be asking the testers who collect the blood to "test it for everything including tropical diseases".

All they are doing is collecting a sample of blood.

So the Dawg's BS story about asking the UCI to test is just that... BS.

 

[frenchfry]

After the first of the Dawg's attacks today (sprinting with Contador reminiscent of Chicken/Contador in 2007) Contador pulled up alongside the Dawg. Maybe to invite him for a coffee after the stage?

 

[thehog]

After the first of the Dawg's attacks today (sprinting with Contador reminiscent of Chicken/Contador in 2007) Contador pulled up alongside the Dawg. Maybe to invite him for a coffee after the stage?

I think he asked Contador if he wanted to turn off the power meter and do an extra four hours after the stage.

 

[neineinei]

UCI started their blood profiling in 2008.
WADA's Athletes Biological Passport was introduced in 2009.
What kind of laboratories did UCI use from the start? Did UCI go from their own system to WADA's right away? Assuming there were no WADA accredited laboratories for ABP tests prior to WADA's own ABP program, what labs did UCI use from the start? How was it done in 2010?

On UCI's website it says:

Every sample will be analysed by a laboratory that is approved by WADA or the UCI and has the required equipment and staff of suitable competence. There are currently 19 laboratories accredited by WADA.
It should be noted that the measurements of values for the biological passport (haemoglobin, free plasma haemoglobin, reticulocytes, stimulation index, haematocrit) do not present any particular technical difficulties.

 

[doperhopper]

nice vroomie's winning gesture, saying: "this is Mein Climb!"

 

[doperhopper]

After the first of the Dawg's attacks today (sprinting with Contador reminiscent of Chicken/Contador in 2007) Contador pulled up alongside the Dawg. Maybe to invite him for a coffee after the stage?

with Bugno, I hope

 

[thehog]

UCI started their blood profiling in 2008.
WADA's Athletes Biological Passport was introduced in 2009.
What kind of laboratories did UCI use from the start? Did UCI go from their own system to WADA's right away? Assuming there were no WADA accredited laboratories for ABP tests prior to WADA's own ABP program, what labs did UCI use from the start? How was it done in 2010?

On UCI's website it says:

What's the delination between "collection" & "testing".

That may be the difference here. ie collected in Kenya, tested elsewhere.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Collection - acquiring the blood or urine sample. Packaging and sending to the lab (with the relevant forms etc). Can be done (almost) anywhere.

Testing - doing the actual lab analysis. (these days at a WADA accredited lab)


Is that what you are asking ?

 

[thehog]

Collection - acquiring the blood or urine sample. Packaging and sending to the lab (with the relevant forms etc). Can be done (almost) anywhere.

Testing - doing the actual lab analysis. (these days at a WADA accredited lab)


Is that what you are asking ?

Yes, what I mean is; although there is no testing facility in Kenya, athletes can still have blood drawn and sent elsewhere for testing. As long as its arrives within 36 hours.

Still the point remains; the Dawg wouldn't be asking the people taking the collection to "test it for everything".

That story was made up.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Yes, what I mean is; although there is no testing facility in Kenya, athletes can still have blood drawn and sent elsewhere for testing. As long as its arrives within 36 hours.

Still the point remains; the Dawg wouldn't be asking the people taking the collection to "test it for everything".

That story was made up.

Yes to the bold. (timing I think is right. I'd have to double check against the docs, but that doesn't alter the point discussed).


The second point, well he could ask the nurse (or whomever) to make a note. Or he could indeed write on the forms himself.

That doesn't mean 'test for everything' would happen though.

(Literally what does that even mean. Even if he thought he had some odd tropical disease, there are literally hundreds of them and only 5 ml of sample).

So I agree it doesn't pass the sniff test here. (though many stories in many Sports Autobiographies even non-contentious ones fail a sniff test)

 

[sniper]

That story was made up.

in some parallel universe, walsh might actually go double check the story and have it officially verified.

 

[Franklin]

Yes, what I mean is; although there is no testing facility in Kenya, athletes can still have blood drawn and sent elsewhere for testing. As long as its arrives within 36 hours.

Isn't that pretty hard/expensive? Especially for Kenya? Or is this just business as usual sending blood samples around the globe?

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Did the excerpts with the JV negotiations ever get posted anywhere?

 

[thehog]

Isn't that pretty hard/expensive? Especially for Kenya? Or is this just business as usual sending blood samples around the globe?

Yes it would be and fraught with "handling" issues.

Which just makes the entire story BS. And the UCI aren't testing for dieseses.

Blood tests aren't a magic wand that lists out all known problems. Specific tests apply for specific conditions.