The current state of pro cycling - an appraisal

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

TV is crying out for such content.

Is it? What does cycling compete with on ITV 94 in the UK? 118 episodes of Kojak on a never-ending loop. 148 episodes of Quincy ME on a never-ending loop. 114 episodes of Minder on a never-ending loop. 53 episodes of The Sweeney on a never-ending loop. 57 episodes of The Professionals on a never-ending loop. Each on twice a day. Day after day after day after day. Oddly, you never see ITV's decade-and-more coverage of the Tour put on a never-ending loop. Do you know why that is? Sport doesn't really work for repeat viewing. So, is TV really crying out for such content?

I can't really comment on UK television. Perhaps there are local content laws which see such shows taking up airtime.

But for sure if cycling was able to serve up content that was well packaged it would be taken up by a channel here looking to provide fresh content. There are sport oriented channels and live action plus replays in the hours/days following absolutely is sought. This is what fills the sport oriented channels now except they have to fill the gaps with stuff they'd probably rather not (i.e. not sport).

I think it needs a bit of a Netflix moment.

I can see a streaming/cloud based video and recording service such as Fubo taking such well packaged content in a heart beat. They already have a dedicated cycling channel now. They could be the Netflix for cycle sport, and help to change the paradigm. All major races in one place and viewable in a consistent manner. Indeed when there is more than one race on at the same time, well this is perfect for managing this sort of viewing. I can watch what I want, when I want.

Look at it from the angle of the consumer of sport's viewing. Cycling doesn't have a stadium. If that part of the equation is screwy, well it's never going to progress beyond it's minor niche.

Netflix had to raise $1.5bn in debt funding to get where it is today. Which is about $200m in profit. PayPal had to pay $50 to its first 50,000 subscribers from venture funding. This stuff doesn’t happen on its own. No one is going to fund cycling to the levels that Kerry Packer did for World Series to turn cricket from a 5 day event into a made for TV one day event. Unless Elon Musk starts shaving his legs.

Electric bikes??

 

[fmk_RoI]

Remember when Oleg Tinkoff was going to be our saviour, with his deep, deep pockets?

Remember when Wang Jianlin was going to be our saviour, with his deep, deep pockets?

Now our saviour is supposed to be Silicon Valley Venture Capital funds who'll happily pay lots and lots of money to buy cycling's humongous audience for new streaming services.

Sometimes it's like some cycling fans think the sport is one of those bodice-ripping romantic novels where a white knight with deep, deep pockets will come charging in and take us off to a new life of happiness and lots and lots of money.

 

[King Boonen]

Honest question, do people really think they are coming up with ideas that haven't been thought of before?

 

[simoni]

Re:

Honest question, do people really think they are coming up with ideas that haven't been thought of before?

This is what we're facing up to - final day of 2012 tour in UK - probably the most important one-off stage in the history of british cycling.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jul/23/bradley-wiggins-tour-de-france-tv

"ITV1 averaged 1.4 million viewers and a 12.3% audience share between 2pm and 5pm. The previous Sunday a Columbo repeat on ITV1 averaged 1.1 million viewers and a 10.8% audience share over two hours from 2.30pm.

The ITV4 simulcast averaged 627,000 viewers and a 5.6% share over the same period, with the channel's Tour de France highlights show averaging 520,000 viewers and a 2.7% share over an hour from 7pm."

In probably the fastest growing cycling market in the world at the time, you could get half the viewing figures by knocking out a repeat of a 30 year old american cop show.

Fancy ideas about narratives, stories, platforms and presentation are all well and good - the facts are that the interest simply isn't there.

 

[King Boonen]

Yeah, that's the point I'm getting at really. There clearly isn't an audience big enough to support the kind of investment that would be required to produce some kind of season long coverage with shows covering the stories and intricacies of the riders and their performance across different races.

 

[simoni]

Re:

Yeah, that's the point I'm getting at really. There clearly isn't an audience big enough to support the kind of investment that would be required to produce some kind of season long coverage with shows covering the stories and intricacies of the riders and their performance across different races.

FWIW, I think the ITV TDF coverage is excellent - good quality production values, decent analysis from people who know what they're talking about and an effort to follow the narrative and tell the story. And yet, still people don't watch it in enormous numbers - certainly not enough to suggest that there'd be any commercial value in covering even fairly major races, such as the Tour of Romandie or Basque Country to a decent level of detail.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Yeah, that's the point I'm getting at really. There clearly isn't an audience big enough to support the kind of investment that would be required to produce some kind of season long coverage with shows covering the stories and intricacies of the riders and their performance across different races.

FWIW, I think the ITV TDF coverage is excellent - good quality production values, decent analysis from people who know what they're talking about and an effort to follow the narrative and tell the story. And yet, still people don't watch it in enormous numbers - certainly not enough to suggest that there'd be any commercial value in covering even fairly major races, such as the Tour of Romandie or Basque Country to a decent level of detail.

What are ITV doing for the Vuelta? Full live or an hour's highlights late at night?

 

[King Boonen]

Not scheduled yet, but odds on for 1 hour highlights 10-11pm, the "old film repeated for the 1000th time" slot.

 

[simoni]

Re:

Not scheduled yet, but odds on for 1 hour highlights 10-11pm, the "old film repeated for the 1000th time" slot.

They usually do a decent job of covering it with Imlach fronting (possibly not on location though) and I've seen somewhere that they're doing their own comms with Boulting/Millar. I'd be v surprised if they're doing any live coverage with the big brit names not racing it.

 

[King Boonen]

The quality of the coverage only really matters to us. The channel and time gives more of an indication of what they think of its actually worth. Considering Froome has raced it for the past 4(?) years, 3as the TDF champion, I think it's fairly obvious that there is basically no market for it.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

TV is crying out for such content.

Is it? What does cycling compete with on ITV 94 in the UK? 118 episodes of Kojak on a never-ending loop. 148 episodes of Quincy ME on a never-ending loop. 114 episodes of Minder on a never-ending loop. 53 episodes of The Sweeney on a never-ending loop. 57 episodes of The Professionals on a never-ending loop. Each on twice a day. Day after day after day after day. Oddly, you never see ITV's decade-and-more coverage of the Tour put on a never-ending loop. Do you know why that is? Sport doesn't really work for repeat viewing. So, is TV really crying out for such content?

I can't really comment on UK television. Perhaps there are local content laws which see such shows taking up airtime.

But for sure if cycling was able to serve up content that was well packaged it would be taken up by a channel here looking to provide fresh content. There are sport oriented channels and live action plus replays in the hours/days following absolutely is sought. This is what fills the sport oriented channels now except they have to fill the gaps with stuff they'd probably rather not (i.e. not sport).

I think it needs a bit of a Netflix moment.

I can see a streaming/cloud based video and recording service such as Fubo taking such well packaged content in a heart beat. They already have a dedicated cycling channel now. They could be the Netflix for cycle sport, and help to change the paradigm. All major races in one place and viewable in a consistent manner. Indeed when there is more than one race on at the same time, well this is perfect for managing this sort of viewing. I can watch what I want, when I want.

Look at it from the angle of the consumer of sport's viewing. Cycling doesn't have a stadium. If that part of the equation is screwy, well it's never going to progress beyond it's minor niche.

Netflix had to raise $1.5bn in debt funding to get where it is today. Which is about $200m in profit. PayPal had to pay $50 to its first 50,000 subscribers from venture funding. This stuff doesn’t happen on its own. No one is going to fund cycling to the levels that Kerry Packer did for World Series to turn cricket from a 5 day event into a made for TV one day event. Unless Elon Musk starts shaving his legs.

Electric bikes??

Hyperloop cycling? SpaceX? Hair doesn’t grow in space, legs permanently shaven. Tesla Super Electric Cycle Series.

 

[thehog]

Re:

The quality of the coverage only really matters to us. The channel and time gives more of an indication of what they think of its actually worth. Considering Froome has raced it for the past 4(?) years, 3as the TDF champion, I think it's fairly obvious that there is basically no market for it.

I’d do match races up Ventoux and other climbs. Big money, no drafting with cash prizes at each sprint point on the climb. Veterans doper circuit as well, Ullrich v Armstrong v Vino v Mayo and Landis. That would be nuts and well worth watching for just under an hour of viewing. Get the cameras involved on the crowd, best costume award, kissing cam etc. Sponsored by Bud and KFC.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

The quality of the coverage only really matters to us. The channel and time gives more of an indication of what they think of its actually worth. Considering Froome has raced it for the past 4(?) years, 3as the TDF champion, I think it's fairly obvious that there is basically no market for it.

I’d do match races up Ventoux and other climbs. Big money, no drafting with cash prizes at each sprint point on the climb. Veterans doper circuit as well, Ullrich v Armstrong v Vino v Mayo and Landis. That would be nuts and well worth watching for just under an hour of viewing. Get the cameras involved on the crowd, best costume award, missing cam etc.

Ventolin hand-ups?

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

The quality of the coverage only really matters to us. The channel and time gives more of an indication of what they think of its actually worth. Considering Froome has raced it for the past 4(?) years, 3as the TDF champion, I think it's fairly obvious that there is basically no market for it.

I’d do match races up Ventoux and other climbs. Big money, no drafting with cash prizes at each sprint point on the climb. Veterans doper circuit as well, Ullrich v Armstrong v Vino v Mayo and Landis. That would be nuts and well worth watching for just under an hour of viewing. Get the cameras involved on the crowd, best costume award, missing cam etc.

Ventolin hand-ups?

The whole shebang... Hematocrit allowable up to 65%!

 

[Mamil]

Re:

Yeah, that's the point I'm getting at really. There clearly isn't an audience big enough to support the kind of investment that would be required to produce some kind of season long coverage with shows covering the stories and intricacies of the riders and their performance across different races.

This is wrong simply for the very reason that in Australia it already all exists. Thank God for SBS, even if they occasionally frustrate me.

On free-to-air TV we get every stage of the Tour and the Vuelta live, on average showing about three-quarters of each stage. We used to get the Giro too until RCS agreed a stupid exclusive deal with Eurosport and SBS lost it. On top of that we get Flanders, Roubaix, Amstel, Liege, the Dauphine and the worlds, again all live and free. The Tour and the monuments in particular aren't just televised, they are surrounded by previews, expert comments, interviews and other little pieces. A different free channel also shows our nationals, the TDU and the Evans race. There is also a weekly show covering all the news and highlights from the cycling world, obviously with an Aussie emphasis. The SBS website features a bi-weekly podcast with further news and opinions, video highlights of other races, and a stack of articles on all manner of cycling topics. Put that all together and, while there are gaps and it's not perfect, we get a pretty good season-long coverage of not just the races but the news and travails of the riders and the teams.

All this on a station that is largely taxpayer funded and on a pretty tight budget. Cycling isn't pulling fans on TV in the UK simply because no-one has ever tried to take it seriously. Do it, commit to it, and I bet a solid audience would be found. I know less about the US scene but I'm reckoning the same would apply there too. It doesn't have to be expensive, otherwise I guarantee SBS wouldn't do it. It just has to be done properly.

Is little Australia really the only country where this is possible?

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re:

Remember when Oleg Tinkoff was going to be our saviour, with his deep, deep pockets?

Remember when Wang Jianlin was going to be our saviour, with his deep, deep pockets?

Now our saviour is supposed to be Silicon Valley Venture Capital funds who'll happily pay lots and lots of money to buy cycling's humongous audience for new streaming services.

Sometimes it's like some cycling fans think the sport is one of those bodice-ripping romantic novels where a white knight with deep, deep pockets will come charging in and take us off to a new life of happiness and lots and lots of money.

I don't see why asking for some consistency in broadcast and presentation of the sport is such a big deal?

The races are televised by someone already.

What's wrong with a bit of polishing up of the product where the money is already being spent to produce and show the content?

 

[Bolder]

Only the GTs, world championships and spring classics and a few oddball one-day races like Strade Bianche or Tro Bro Leon have potential to grow the sport's TV audience. And even then I'd much prefer to see 100km races/stages. Intensity is intensity, and if you're broadcasting 3-4 fours of a single sport it better be a Federer-Nadal Wimbledon final.

(I personally like it the way it is but I'm a 30+-year fan)

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Is little Australia really the only country where this is possible?

What does 'little' Australia actually got? It's got Richie Porte in the stage races. It's got Michael Matthews and Simon Gerrans and Mathew Hayman in the Classics. It's got, what, more than ten riders at the Tour this year, and about the same amount going back several years.

You have to remember how cycling actually works. The nature of the sport is that it is a minority sport. Some seem to have trouble accepting that. But it is. Every now and again, here or there, it booms a bit as a local hero comes along. So America wakes up and takes notice when there's an Armstrong. Australia an Evans. Britain a Wiggins. Germany a Kittel. Look at Van Reeth's TV viewing figures: one of the few countries not to lose audience share this year is the Netherlands, thanks to Tom Dumoulin.

The SBS shows: are they with local commentators, noticing the Aussie riders, or they are with 'neutral' commentary, something not localized to specific markets, a one-size-fits-all commentary?

 

[King Boonen]

Live coverage of European races on free to air TV in Australia, I wonder why this is the case..?

 

[thehog]

Re:

Live coverage of European races on free to air TV in Australia, I wonder why this is the case..?

English Premier League live on free to air TV in the US. MLS Soccer not. Simple math.

Live cycling of European races at 2am in the morning, bonza mate

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re:

Live coverage of European races on free to air TV in Australia, I wonder why this is the case..?

Some is on free to air, but to watch the season you still have to resort to finding races in various ways.

To legitimately watch the Giro, you'd have to have Foxtel, and to be able to record and watch it next day at a reasonable hour, you'd have to have Foxtel IQ.

Some races requires resorting to pirate feeds.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re: Re:

The SBS shows: are they with local commentators, noticing the Aussie riders, or they are with 'neutral' commentary, something not localized to specific markets, a one-size-fits-all commentary?

SBS takes the feed from the race broadcaster, and for major races then adds their own studio team to top and tail the broadcast with the occasional mid-race discussion. At the TdF they also send their own crew to the tour to provide extra content.

 

[Finn84]

Some years ago Eurosport showed the start of TdF stages, then took a break of couple of hours, then went live to finish.

 

[simoni]

Re: Re:

Remember when Oleg Tinkoff was going to be our saviour, with his deep, deep pockets?

Remember when Wang Jianlin was going to be our saviour, with his deep, deep pockets?

Now our saviour is supposed to be Silicon Valley Venture Capital funds who'll happily pay lots and lots of money to buy cycling's humongous audience for new streaming services.

Sometimes it's like some cycling fans think the sport is one of those bodice-ripping romantic novels where a white knight with deep, deep pockets will come charging in and take us off to a new life of happiness and lots and lots of money.

I don't see why asking for some consistency in broadcast and presentation of the sport is such a big deal?

The races are televised by someone already.

What's wrong with a bit of polishing up of the product where the money is already being spent to produce and show the content?

I don't thin people are saying that - they just don't think it will make much difference.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Monetising fans, the football way:

Billed as “the world’s first smartband” and available for £79.99 a throw, the Fantom is to all intents and purposes an electronic bracelet that provides wearers with the kind of “inside information”, in-game stats, polls and quizzes they can quite literally find anywhere else on the internet without having to pay the thick end of £80 for a piece of branded tat. Aimed at the fan who wants “24/7 breaking news about City, from City, packaged in a premium aluminium housing with touch display and soft silicone straps”, this propaganda tool doesn’t so much tell everything you need to know about City, as everything they want you to know.