The doped bike exists (video of pro version)!

[sniper]

@Dave, hrotha, MarkV, and other sceptics
Have you seen this 6 min. video? (includes Cassani's explanation + accusation, an analysis of the possible technology, and analysis of Cancellara's PR and Flanders accellerations)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nd13ARuvVE
let me know what you think.
Imo that Cancellara accelleration is pretty ffing unnatural.
The slo-mo analysis of what he's doing with his hand is compelling.

 

[D-Queued]

Re:

@Dave, hrotha, MarkV, and other sceptics
Have you seen this 6 min. video? (includes Cassani's explanation + accusation, an analysis of the possible technology, and analysis of Cancellara's PR and Flanders accellerations)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nd13ARuvVE
let me know what you think.
Imo that Cancellara accelleration is pretty ffing unnatural.
The slo-mo analysis of what he's doing with his hand is compelling.

I love that video.

Perhaps it is just me, but I find that just about everything Spartacus does is pretty ffing unnatural.

And, perhaps it is also just me, but I get dropped like that all the time by those who are but a shadow of Spartacus.

Dave.

 

[sniper]

so what is he doing with his hand? an itch?

at the prolevel there normally isn't much difference between the top guys. the way he drove away there.
not normal.

 

[MarkvW]

Re:

@Dave, hrotha, MarkV, and other sceptics
Have you seen this 6 min. video? (includes Cassani's explanation + accusation, an analysis of the possible technology, and analysis of Cancellara's PR and Flanders accellerations)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nd13ARuvVE
let me know what you think.
Imo that Cancellara accelleration is pretty ffing unnatural.
The slo-mo analysis of what he's doing with his hand is compelling.

I'm not really skeptical about the possibility of an electric bike, because both battery and fabrication technology are right now growing by astonishing leaps and bounds. I just don't think that a team will be able to keep an electric battery bike secret for very long.

 

[sniper]

MarkvW, have you seen the footage?
Cassani confirms it's happening. Cancellara looks pretty ff-ing suspect doing unusual stuff with his steering wheel whilst putting in a massive accelleration.
Boardman already spoke about motorization in 2000.
Have you read the CIRC report? Different sources speak about "efforts to cheat" by using motorization technology. UCI are checking bikes.
What are you still on the fence for?
It's happening.

 

[D-Queued]

Re:

MarkvW, have you seen the footage?
Cassani confirms it's happening. Cancellara looks pretty ff-ing suspect doing unusual stuff with his steering wheel whilst putting in a massive accelleration.
Boardman already spoke about motorization in 2000.
Have you read the CIRC report? Different sources speak about "efforts to cheat" by using motorization technology. UCI are checking bikes.
What are you still on the fence for?
It's happening.

Did you hear the noise from the motor in the video (watch the part at the end with the chick on the bike)?

Nobody would notice?

Did you notice that the wheel was spinning after he pushed the button, but before the cranks were moving?

How is that possible?

What was Spartacus doing with his hand? Thinking about shifting gears, whether he did or not?

Don't know about you, but I do that all the time.

Dave.

 

[VO2 Max]

Honestly, believing in motorised bikes is pretty easy compared to some of the accepted 'facts' of pro cycling, like grupetto riders becoming Tour winners or a >40yo winning a grand tour. And all without dope ofc. One of those old Octalink b/b's - you could get some cervo's and batteries in there no problem. Get some old Ergomo shells to build it into, have a kill switch controlled from your phone, and someone could dismantle the bike and not figure it out. Probably you never get enough to coast round the Tour but an extra 50w for 30s to allow a world class timetrialist to break clear of a more explosive rival who could usually follow and outsprint him sounds good to me. Also, using a bottom bracket shell you don't even need any conspiracy with frame manufacturers, just one mechanic.

 

[neineinei]

About the Cassani/Cancellara video: Cassani doesn't say anything about Cancellara, he talks about motors in bikes in a clip from Rai, from the 2010 Giro. The part about Cancellara, from ca. 3.30, started with "Now we can give our interpretation of Cancellara performance in Flandres and Paris Roubaix to clear up the obsuce sides" is made by some somebody on the interwebs, or as the description of the video says:

Video done by Michele Bufalino. Subtitles by Alberto Pinsino. in first part of this video Images from Rai but in second part, investigation by Michele Bufalino. This video shows how mechanic doping may be done. Do any professional cyclist use a bike with engine? In the video taken out from RAI, we'll see how the bike works. And we'll analyse recent great performances of Fabian Cancellara in Tour of Flanders and in Paris

http://www.michelebufalino.com/la-bici- ... ancellara/
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... bike-59948

 

[blackcat]

Re:

About the Cassani/Cancellara video: Cassani doesn't say anything about Cancellara, he talks about motors in bikes in a clip from Rai, from the 2010 Giro. The part about Cancellara, from ca. 3.30, started with "Now we can give our interpretation of Cancellara performance in Flandres and Paris Roubaix to clear up the obsuce sides" is made by some somebody on the interwebs, or as the description of the video says:

Video done by Michele Bufalino. Subtitles by Alberto Pinsino. in first part of this video Images from Rai but in second part, investigation by Michele Bufalino. This video shows how mechanic doping may be done. Do any professional cyclist use a bike with engine? In the video taken out from RAI, we'll see how the bike works. And we'll analyse recent great performances of Fabian Cancellara in Tour of Flanders and in Paris

http://www.michelebufalino.com/la-bici- ... ancellara/
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... bike-59948

on the flat tho, 50watts is about the equivalent of Tom Boonen being on your wheel in your slipstream. Then it is just up to Tommeke to match your neutral wattage.

 

[sniper]

Re:

About the Cassani/Cancellara video: Cassani doesn't say anything about Cancellara, he talks about motors in bikes in a clip from Rai, from the 2010 Giro.

I didn't say he did.
I said 'accusation', but didn't mean towards Cancellara (though I understand my post may have been interpreted as such).
Cassani's accusation is that some (unidentified) pro-rider has used the bike in competition.
Added to all the other indications (CIRC report, Boardman, UCI testing bikes), you get a compelling picture that motorization is happening.
Only when/if one assumes it is happening and has been happening, then the footage of Cancellara and Hesjedal becomes interesting.

 

[neineinei]

http://tinyurl.com/n7knjk6

From Jan 2014, in Dutch, but the interview with Rasmussen from ca 8.50 is in English. (From the Cancellara thread)

 

[sniper]

Re:

http://bureausport.vara.nl/Newsdeta...109631&cHash=1164083b775288c227b0c42062c5d03c

From Jan 2014, in Dutch, but the interview with Rasmussen from ca 8.50 is in English. (From the Cancellara thread)

thanks!
very interesting.
for me it's pretty much sealed as far as cancellara is concerned.
that switch of bikes (his mechanic waiting in the corner) followed by that alien inseat accelleration.

 

[Merckx index]

Re:

The thing with motorized bikes is that a good look at your bike will always find the motor, which means if your bike is picked for a test you're screwed. Doping is much better in that regard, because if you're smart you won't race or be available for tests at all while you're glowing, which means you can't be caught unless you screw up.

Not to mention the element of plausible deniability doping provides but motors don't: good luck convincing anyone that the rider put the motor in their bike by themselves and that the mechanics and the team didn't know anything.

For these reasons, I just don't see it taking off.

The top ten excuses offered by riders caught using a mechanical aid:

10) There’s a motor in my bike? Seriously? I had no idea. This bike was given to me by my team, and I think they bought it at a sale US Postal had a few years back.
9) The motor is just used to calibrate my power output during training rides. Of course I don’t turn it on during a race.
8) That thing inside my top tube? It’s just extra weight I needed to get my bike up to the minimum weight allowed.
7) It’s an emergency brake system. If my hand brakes should fail on a critical descent, the motor kicks in with a force on the rear wheel in the opposite direction of its natural spin.
6) It’s all right, I have a TUE for this. I have a rare genetic disorder called LLT (low lactate threshold). It blocks my muscle fibers and makes it difficult to pedal at the end of long stages.
5) Good show, guys! Our team has been very concerned that some riders would try this. We wanted to make sure you were looking for it, so we thought we’d run a test. We’ll be sure to tell your bosses at UCI that you’re on the ball.
4) I have a business importing batteries into Spain from France, and I use bikes as a cheap form of transportation.
3) I just entered this race for training. Nothing against the rules about using a motor for training.
2) You may think a motor like this gives me an unfair advantage, but I can assure you that you’re wrong. We’re years away from developing the technology to make a bike motor this size powerful enough to make any significant difference in a race. I know this for a fact, because I read it in the Clinic.
1) OK, so you claim you found a motor inside my bike. Where’s the B sample?

 

[sniper]

in that clip neineinei linked, you see both boogerd and rasmussen take the cancellara case very seriously, but both can't imagine doing it themselves and both haven't ever heard any rumors about it during their carreers.
it might well be that canc was pretty much an einzelgaenger as far as motorization is concerned.
Cassani's contactperson (who said there had been a pro using the motorized bike) could have been referrring to fabian, and so could the guys in the CIRC report. it may thus have been an isolated case.

By the way, Boardman warned the UCI for motorization in 2009. (earlier i erroneously said it was in 2000).
It's a must-read for D-queued and others skeptic about the feasibility of motorized bikes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... r-ago.html

 

[Elagabalus]

Re: Re:

...Only when/if one assumes it is happening and has been happening, then the footage of Cancellara and Hesjedal becomes interesting...

Shorter Snipey: You only have to make yourself believe something in order for it to be true! I guess coming from somebody who believes JV, (standing on the grassy knoll) single-handedly masterminded the greatest doping scheme in all of cycledom, by running a (non-doped) junior team back in 2003 so he could then run a totally doped continental team years later, it makes a certain sense...

 

[MarkvW]

Re:

in that clip neineinei linked, you see both boogerd and rasmussen take the cancellara case very seriously, but both can't imagine doing it themselves and both haven't ever heard any rumors about it during their carreers.
it might well be that canc was pretty much an einzelgaenger as far as motorization is concerned.
Cassani's contactperson (who said there had been a pro using the motorized bike) could have been referrring to fabian, and so could the guys in the CIRC report. it may thus have been an isolated case.

By the way, Boardman warned the UCI for motorization in 2009. (earlier i erroneously said it was in 2000).
It's a must-read for D-queued and others skeptic about the feasibility of motorized bikes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... r-ago.html

Obviously you don't think that motorized bikers can keep their secret from other riders (because you are able to discern it from the relatively distant perspective of the Clinic). Do you think omerta would apply to motorized bikes? Why?

Seems to me that even the dumbest rider (an astoundingly low standard) would realize that motorized bikes would turn their sport into the silliest of jokes.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Re: Re:

in that clip neineinei linked, you see both boogerd and rasmussen take the cancellara case very seriously, but both can't imagine doing it themselves and both haven't ever heard any rumors about it during their carreers.
it might well be that canc was pretty much an einzelgaenger as far as motorization is concerned.
Cassani's contactperson (who said there had been a pro using the motorized bike) could have been referrring to fabian, and so could the guys in the CIRC report. it may thus have been an isolated case.

By the way, Boardman warned the UCI for motorization in 2009. (earlier i erroneously said it was in 2000).
It's a must-read for D-queued and others skeptic about the feasibility of motorized bikes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... r-ago.html

Obviously you don't think that motorized bikers can keep their secret from other riders (because you are able to discern it from the relatively distant perspective of the Clinic). Do you think omerta would apply to motorized bikes? Why?

Seems to me that even the dumbest rider (an astoundingly low standard) would realize that motorized bikes would turn their sport into the silliest of jokes.

Because we all know that dopers really care about the sport and not their own careers.

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Re:

in that clip neineinei linked, you see both boogerd and rasmussen take the cancellara case very seriously, but both can't imagine doing it themselves and both haven't ever heard any rumors about it during their carreers.
it might well be that canc was pretty much an einzelgaenger as far as motorization is concerned.
Cassani's contactperson (who said there had been a pro using the motorized bike) could have been referrring to fabian, and so could the guys in the CIRC report. it may thus have been an isolated case.

By the way, Boardman warned the UCI for motorization in 2009. (earlier i erroneously said it was in 2000).
It's a must-read for D-queued and others skeptic about the feasibility of motorized bikes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... r-ago.html

Obviously you don't think that motorized bikers can keep their secret from other riders (because you are able to discern it from the relatively distant perspective of the Clinic). Do you think omerta would apply to motorized bikes? Why?

Seems to me that even the dumbest rider (an astoundingly low standard) would realize that motorized bikes would turn their sport into the silliest of jokes.

Because we all know that dopers really care about the sport and not their own careers.

I really do hope you're right. It would be wonderful to see the UCI flame out so gloriously.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

in that clip neineinei linked, you see both boogerd and rasmussen take the cancellara case very seriously, but both can't imagine doing it themselves and both haven't ever heard any rumors about it during their carreers.
it might well be that canc was pretty much an einzelgaenger as far as motorization is concerned.
Cassani's contactperson (who said there had been a pro using the motorized bike) could have been referrring to fabian, and so could the guys in the CIRC report. it may thus have been an isolated case.

By the way, Boardman warned the UCI for motorization in 2009. (earlier i erroneously said it was in 2000).
It's a must-read for D-queued and others skeptic about the feasibility of motorized bikes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... r-ago.html

Obviously you don't think that motorized bikers can keep their secret from other riders (because you are able to discern it from the relatively distant perspective of the Clinic). Do you think omerta would apply to motorized bikes? Why?

Seems to me that even the dumbest rider (an astoundingly low standard) would realize that motorized bikes would turn their sport into the silliest of jokes.

mechanics? when the best mechanic in the sport might get 50k euro for 8 months work. You think they are all gonna keep their gob shut? There are too many connections to the crime for it to be secret too long. There must be multiple people involved, and multiple people in on the conspiracy, and not everyone gets paid. well, paid like Spartacus, not everyone gets to stand on the podium at Flanders and the rewards. loose lips,

that said, i would still not be too surprised if Matti Breschel and Spartacus were in on something that year about 5 years back. But it would not have just disappeared, you know if there was any potential, Armstrong would have been on this bike the next year when he returned with Astana and Hog.

hey, Texpat, how much would Boonen or Froome's wrench be on for 8 months work, just with the team and the mechanics bus? 50k euro? And yeah, they work long hours during the GTs, not too much sleep for them.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Obviously you don't think that motorized bikers can keep their secret from other riders (because you are able to discern it from the relatively distant perspective of the Clinic). Do you think omerta would apply to motorized bikes? Why?

Seems to me that even the dumbest rider (an astoundingly low standard) would realize that motorized bikes would turn their sport into the silliest of jokes.

can you engage with the the available data and facts, instead of repeating that single argument with which most including me have already stated they agree? So again: your moral argument is sound and i (repeat that i) agree. But...
it doesn't explain the facts and data.
let me break it down for you (in order of importance):
- did you see the Cassani footage? If so, do you think the mechanic/seller of that bike was lying?
- did you read CIRC? if so, what do you make of the rumored 'efforts to cheat' with motorized bikes?
- did you see the Cancellara footage that has caused all the rumors? What do yo make of it?
- did you read the Boardman interview? again, your view on it please.
- did you hear about UCI checking bikes? Why?
- did you notice they warned the riders 20km in advance giving them time to switch bikes? Why?

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re: Re:

Haven't been reading the thread. Just quoting from the live race thread...

This Thomas reminds me of Cancellra, holy **** wtf is this????

Froome has nothing on him lol

Did he get a new bike after his flip?

Possibly. If so Terpstra, Thomas, Paolini have all had a bike change.

 

[Archibald]

Re:

You don't even need the UCI to get involved. What if someone steals your bikes and the whole thing is revealed?

"Hi, we're the guys that just stole all of [insert team name here]'s bikes. Thought we'd let you know we found some motors in them when we sold them off..."
Don't think so...

 

[Catwhoorg]

I would like to see the UCI make a very clear statement. As its outside of WADA, they can pretty much make up their own rules.

My suggestion would be for anyone caught with a motor in their bike:
Rider 4 year ban. (in line with a first doping offense)

Team immediately suspended until a hearing before the licence committee, the expectation that they will lose any WT of pro-conti licence.

The bike frame manufacturer immediately loses any UCI certification on every race frame, and each has to be recertified at the manufacturers expense, once evidence of how the motor doping was used, and with safeguards in place against it.


That should do the trick, but alas I can only dream...


Doping a rider is bad enough, but this would make a complete mockery of the sport.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

You don't even need the UCI to get involved. What if someone steals your bikes and the whole thing is revealed?

"Hi, we're the guys that just stole all of [insert team name here]'s bikes. Thought we'd let you know we found some motors in them when we sold them off..."
Don't think so...

You're right, information is only conveyed through official channels, signed and stamped.

 

[neineinei]

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/03/c...tion-is-that-this-is-a-very-real-possibility/

We have got a new technical cheating rule in the handbook this year and we intend to make sure that we follow it.

What handbook is he talking about? Can't find it among the UCI regulations: http://www.uci.ch/inside-uci/rules-and- ... gulations/

So what would the punishment be for such a matter?

“We have got the potential in the rules to give sanctions that are as serious as those for doping,” he answered. “I wouldn’t want to have a scale of cheating, a comparison of one and the other – they are both pretty serious.

“But I have to say putting an electric motor in a bike in a sport that is about athletic physical performance is a kind of different order of cheating altogether.”

Preamble
Bicycles shall comply with the spirit and principle of cycling as a sport. The spirit presupposes that cyclists will compete in competitions on an equal footing. The principle asserts the primacy of man over machine.
(http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Rulesandregulation/16/80/73/1-GEN-20150313-E_English.pdf)