I would think lighter rims are better for stability - see segways etc. As long as they are strong enough and don't squirrel?
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sniper said:hitch. why do you think that bikeswitch footage was posted on youtube? not because it wasn't awkward.
read the secret pro on the matter and get back to me on that (in the link veganrob just posted)
and if the bikeswitch happened in isolation, no problem, but it didn't.
It's the combination of things that happened during that race that makes (imo) a good the case for motorization, not each thing in isolation.
so what's your view on Canc's button clicking? it's pretty clearly visible especially in RvV footage, exactly before he jumps away in alien fashion. You've ignored it thus far.
The Hitch said:sniper said:hitch. why do you think that bikeswitch footage was posted on youtube? not because it wasn't awkward.
read the secret pro on the matter and get back to me on that (in the link veganrob just posted)
and if the bikeswitch happened in isolation, no problem, but it didn't.
It's the combination of things that happened during that race that makes (imo) a good the case for motorization, not each thing in isolation.
so what's your view on Canc's button clicking? it's pretty clearly visible especially in RvV footage, exactly before he jumps away in alien fashion. You've ignored it thus far.
What button. The poor quality vids show him moving his hands, not button.
Why was the bikeswitch footage posted on youtube? Umm I don't know. You tell me. Why is it being posted on youtube relevant. What the person filming was in on the conspiracy and this was their way to reveal the conspiracy to the world?
blackcat said:yes no Dave.
It is the Skil or Argon rider with the Australian fiance innit? The Dutch rider, is the secret pro.
ok, my take on this.
Could be Wade or the editor of CyclingTips asked him to give us something, we need clickbait, we need hits.
chance this being the case? I think material chance, he was prompted by the editor or Wade.
However, devil's advocate would be, this had gone thru the peloton (THE DISCUSSION), they wont even need pillowtalk, the peloton talks when on asphalt hot pour tarmac and lime, and at a coffee rendevous. They talk!
So this has passed thru the informal arbiter and consensus impimatur. Usually one would hear some platitude of denial and indignance. But, we could read into said denial, different motives, just like we could read into the "motor subject invocation" with alternate motivation. We can't know where the motive lies.
But I think this has a degree of validity, but I am just not sure how much validity I should put in his CT piece.
MarkvW said:...
Lance's interns are peddling this conspiracy to distract us from the Truth.
D-Queued said:blackcat said:yes no Dave.
It is the Skil or Argon rider with the Australian fiance innit? The Dutch rider, is the secret pro.
ok, my take on this.
Could be Wade or the editor of CyclingTips asked him to give us something, we need clickbait, we need hits.
chance this being the case? I think material chance, he was prompted by the editor or Wade.
However, devil's advocate would be, this had gone thru the peloton (THE DISCUSSION), they wont even need pillowtalk, the peloton talks when on asphalt hot pour tarmac and lime, and at a coffee rendevous. They talk!
So this has passed thru the informal arbiter and consensus impimatur. Usually one would hear some platitude of denial and indignance. But, we could read into said denial, different motives, just like we could read into the "motor subject invocation" with alternate motivation. We can't know where the motive lies.
But I think this has a degree of validity, but I am just not sure how much validity I should put in his CT piece.
Yup, probably a great coffee conspiracy with a lot of laughter.
Something to generate clicks, or as Mark has it:
MarkvW said:...
Lance's interns are peddling this conspiracy to distract us from the Truth.
which is way more believable than mechanics behaving oddly.
Dave.
The Hitch said:sniper said:hitch. why do you think that bikeswitch footage was posted on youtube? not because it wasn't awkward.
read the secret pro on the matter and get back to me on that (in the link veganrob just posted)
and if the bikeswitch happened in isolation, no problem, but it didn't.
It's the combination of things that happened during that race that makes (imo) a good the case for motorization, not each thing in isolation.
so what's your view on Canc's button clicking? it's pretty clearly visible especially in RvV footage, exactly before he jumps away in alien fashion. You've ignored it thus far.
What button. The poor quality vids show him moving his hands, not button.
Why was the bikeswitch footage posted on youtube? Umm I don't know. You tell me. Why is it being posted on youtube relevant. What the person filming was in on the conspiracy and this was their way to reveal the conspiracy to the world?
ray j willings said:The Hitch said:sniper said:hitch. why do you think that bikeswitch footage was posted on youtube? not because it wasn't awkward.
read the secret pro on the matter and get back to me on that (in the link veganrob just posted)
and if the bikeswitch happened in isolation, no problem, but it didn't.
It's the combination of things that happened during that race that makes (imo) a good the case for motorization, not each thing in isolation.
so what's your view on Canc's button clicking? it's pretty clearly visible especially in RvV footage, exactly before he jumps away in alien fashion. You've ignored it thus far.
What button. The poor quality vids show him moving his hands, not button.
Why was the bikeswitch footage posted on youtube? Umm I don't know. You tell me. Why is it being posted on youtube relevant. What the person filming was in on the conspiracy and this was their way to reveal the conspiracy to the world?
Fab makes the exact same hand movement " button" when he drops Boonen.
That's just a coincidence ?
He his pressing a butting or switch then BOOOOOOOM he's gone.
Boonen his out of his seat FFS and Fab just rides away sitting down up hill
Like I said before, since the UCI have tested for motors has Fab shown that kind of form?
ScienceIsCool said:...
I'll give you a million dollars (John based currency backed by wet noodles) if you can show me a similar seated acceleration on cobbles. Cancellara just hit the throttle and went Vrrrrroooom!
John Swanson
sniper said:...
Considering how many people both outside and within the peloton (including ex-pro's) found Cancellara's jumps+bikechange+clicking to be suspect and how many take motorization as a serious threat (including UCI), the only conspiracy theory i see here is the attempt at trivializing the evidence.
D-Queued said:ScienceIsCool said:...
I'll give you a million dollars (John based currency backed by wet noodles) if you can show me a similar seated acceleration on cobbles. Cancellara just hit the throttle and went Vrrrrroooom!
John Swanson
Seriously?
How about if I do it? How much will you give me?
You are judging 'relative' acceleration from a bad and uncalibrated video where you have no idea what the speed was, how the other guy's speed changed (e.g. did it decrease?) nor anything else.
Do you have a normalized video feed (i.e. at 90 degrees) of Spartacus accelerating in that event as compared to a controlled environment/normal situation?
No. So, obviously there is no control nor reliable data for your assertion.
How fast do you think he was going pre/post? Be honest here. You have absolutely NO idea, and it would be hilarious to hear you claim otherwise. Let's just go out on a limb and call anything you might state as almost certainly indefensible.
How many real watts do you think could be delivered by a motor and small battery hidden inside a seat tube? Let's go crazy and call it net 100 watts (after allowing for extra weight, etc.), just for argument. Now that is what, less than a 10% potential enhancement at best, assuming that Spartacus can give us at least 1,000 watts?
And, your untrained and uncalibrated eye perceived, what, a 2-4x acceleration enhancement?
Add in wind drag, and what kind of power would your motor need to generate to achieve your imaginings?
Judging from years of experience with multiple power meters, my peak and 10-15s sprint power is probably +/- 100 watts depending on specific conditions (e.g. fatigue, cadence, etc.), and I would imagine Cancellera might have a similar experience and that he should have at least the same Pmax capability. Thus, even normal cyclists (unlike those that are probably doped) can generate short-term power with a statistical variation that would cover artificial enhancement from any practical motor implementation (setting aside the extremely low possibility of such a design actually working, being implemented, or being applied).
Science may be cool, but your bet is foolish and unscientific.
In fact, I would bet you that this grey-haired old fart could pull off a similar acceleration. And, I would be willing to demonstrate for a big discount on your $1 million offer.
Dave.
I aint stupid, this is obvious.Dear Wiggo said:But you're not. You're descending on a 70-80 kg system. As long as the tyre pressure and wheel rigidity is set up right, and the frame is stiff enough yet veritcally compliant (nah just kidding) you are descending at 80kg, no 5kg.
blackcat said:I aint stupid, this is obvious.Dear Wiggo said:But you're not. You're descending on a 70-80 kg system. As long as the tyre pressure and wheel rigidity is set up right, and the frame is stiff enough yet veritcally compliant (nah just kidding) you are descending at 80kg, no 5kg.
but yo are incorrect and Boardman is wrong, it is the centre of gravity. ask Fabian if he wants to descend the 5kg bike v the 7.5kg bike.
sniper said:with all due respect, d-queued, you're all over the place here sounding like an armstrong / wiggins / froome fan: no positive test, so probably clean.
tell me what you see when you look at the footage.
simple exercise.
and it's not about calibrated evidence. It's about using your real world experience and applying it to that bit of footage.
that's all there is to it: it looks mightily odd both to the trained (casani, boogerd, rasmussen, ducrot, belgian commentators) and what you'd call untrained eye (me and several other anonymous internet wankers) and it turns suspect in combination with the rumors of motorization.
not sure how you can argue against that.
and since when do you need calibrated evidence to form an opinion? Is Sky doping? Nah, no calibrated evidence.
MarkvW said:Is everybody in the peloton using the motor bike technology?
and if that's what he says to the press (with lible issues glooming), you can be sure he really was pretty suspicious.But others were not so sure. Jean-René Bernaudeau, a former top rider who is now director of the Bouygues Télécom team, the idea could not be ruled out.
“It must be tempting for people who do not hesitate to change their blood to snatch glory from their rivals,” he told France Info radio. Boonen’s Quick Step team manager Patrick Lefevere called on the UCI to investigate the claims fully. "I was a bit circumspect watching the clip. But if we imagine it’s true, it’s daylight robbery. It’s worse than (performance-enhancing) drugs. "I don’t want to get involved in all these rumours and I’m trying not to get paranoid. But after seeing this video I hope the UCI are going to fully investigate.”
The UCI banned battery-operated engines 2005 but intends to amend the rules again as a new generation of solar-powered devices hits the market.
“It is clear we will have to speed up our research to find a way of scanning the bikes,” said Jean Wauthier, UCI’s technical chief.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/7798626/Fabian-Cancellara-denies-using-a-motorised-bike-to-win-races-in-the-spring.html
Dear Wiggo said:If your outside leg is down, and your weight is on that foot, your CoG is somewhere towards the pedal.
How about you ask fabian for me?
sniper said:slow and difficult discussion with you hitch. you're firing left and right in the hope of hitting something (or someone) apparently without having really followed the thread and the the links contained in it. it's not nice to continuously have to repeat arguments and repost links just to make up for your laziness.
you're also showing a continuous unwillingness to address the arguments, coming up with deflections and/or arguing semantics. sigh.
sniper said:slow and difficult discussion with you hitch. you're firing left and right in the hope of hitting something (or someone) apparently without having really followed the thread and the the links contained in it. it's not nice to continuously have to repeat arguments and repost links just to make up for your laziness.
you're also showing a continuous unwillingness to address the arguments, coming up with deflections and/or arguing semantics. sigh.
that's because you questioned me about something I never said.The Hitch said:sniper said:slow and difficult discussion with you hitch. you're firing left and right in the hope of hitting something (or someone) apparently without having really followed the thread and the the links contained in it. it's not nice to continuously have to repeat arguments and repost links just to make up for your laziness.
you're also showing a continuous unwillingness to address the arguments, coming up with deflections and/or arguing semantics. sigh.
That doesn't answer the question. You claimed Cancellaras accelerations looked odd to Cassini. I'm asking where you heard that. The above post looks an awful lot like someone dodging an uncomfortable question.
lol, that's you either trolling, in need of new glasses, or too lazy to actually watch the vid till the end. your pick.hitch: The poor quality vids show him moving his hands, not button.
lol. the whole thread is interlaced with people (pro's, expros, commentators, anonymous internet wankers) taking the vid serious. Again it's either you trolling (but you wouldn't, now would you) or just too lazy to read the thread, or bad memory, your pick.hitch: I don't remember seeing anyone take that video seriously.