The French hope of the century or the Colombian Messiah?

[Jason_Mercier]

Yes, I agree with you. Quintana definitely has shown more talent, as well as great potential to be a GT contender. I would say Pinot's 10th in the Tour shows the most potential to be a GT contender at this point. I think we'll have to see how Quintana does in a GT with full leadership before we can declare him to definitely be a GT contender.



Go watch Giro dell'Emilia this year, and then tell us if Pinot has more potential in the hilly classics. Quintana was amazing in it, his first attack reduced the peloton into a handful of just a few riders, then his 2nd attack dropped everyone. Plus there was also his 11th in Lombardia.

I have already watched The Giro Dell Emilia. In Quintana's biography in the first page i wrote about this win. Yes, Quintana was amazing but i think Thibaut has the conditions to be better hily classics than Nairo. I see him as a Fleche Wallonnie and Lombardie future winner.

 

[profff]

quintana is less explosive but he is able to go away from the peloton and keep going building big gaps.
in route du sud he destryed everybody and was able to stay away for a long time increasing progressively his advantage
he is super strong and he is very good in descending.
i hope unzue stops using hm as a domestique for valverde.

pinot also is very strong uphill but he is very bad in placing himself in the peloton. he is not able to stay in the first half of the peloton and he needs to be helped all the time.
very bad in descending, especially if he is alone ( normally, but in his win in the tour he was able to stay away...) . he can improve tt.

i choose quintana but pinot is very strong and exciting.

 

[Arnout]

I have already watched The Giro Dell Emilia. In Quintana's biography in the first page i wrote about this win. Yes, Quintana was amazing but i think Thibaut has the conditions to be better hily classics than Nairo. I see him as a Fleche Wallonnie and Lombardie future winner.

Wait, Quintana does already have a biography?

 

[Jason_Mercier]

Wait, Quintana does already have a biography?

A summary of his career. In the first page.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Giro dell'Emilia isn't really that good an indicator for hilly classics as it's far harder than any of the Ardennes and is as close to a "mountain-classic" you can get.

To me it seems like Pinot is more explosive/punchy, so I'd think he has more potential in the hills. He has never done any hilly classics in form, though, so it's hard to know. Quintana was never seen in the front in the short "walls" in the Vuelta, which goes to show that his abilities in short hills are limited.

how about lombardia in the rain?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

LOL. Thibaut Pinot is more explosive, by far has more punch than Nairo and because of this has more potential as a hilly classics rider. We'll see it in 2013. Also Thibaut has demonstrated yet that he can be up there in the hardest 3 weeks GT of the world.

Hello? Quintana won Giro dell Emilia, the Italian Fleche Wallone. And finished 11th in Lombardia

What the f. has Pinot every done in classics? I had both Pinot and Quintana in a CQ ranking based game last year, Quintana brought me a lot more. Pinot was only good for june and july sadly.
This is also because Pinot's base level is not so high, he can't keep a high level all year long (also logical with his age, he still has time), whereas Quintana already has a high level all year long, and performed much better in hilly classic type races

 

[Jason_Mercier]

Hello? Quintana won Giro dell Emilia, the Italian Fleche Wallone. And finished 11th in Lombardia

What the f. has Pinot every done in classics? I had both Pinot and Quintana in a CQ ranking based game last year, Quintana brought me a lot more. Pinot was only good for june and july sadly.
This is also because Pinot's base level is not so high, he can't keep a high level all year long (also logical with his age, he still has time), whereas Quintana already has a high level all year long, and performed much better in hilly classic type races

The last year: 9th in Beghelli, race winned by Pozzato. 3rd in Tre Valli Varesine winned by Rebellin. Stage of St Savin (Rhone-Alpes Isère Tour)
In 2010: 14th in Montreal and 15th in Paris Camembert in his first professional season with 20 years. So those are the arguments. I dont write things without them. And i continue thinking the same. Pinot has more potential as a classics rider.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

and where is your proof that pinot has the engine to go 250 km in a classic?

 

[roundabout]

Yeah, TVV is a good example of Pinot's qualities on an uphill finish.

He did finish 10th in the Tour, but was 1 bad day away from finishing 6th.

Quintana is very talented, but I really wish that people would stop using Route du Sud where Hubert Dupont was his main rival as an example of his abilities...

 

[Afrank]

Giro dell'Emilia isn't really that good an indicator for hilly classics as it's far harder than any of the Ardennes and is as close to a "mountain-classic" you can get.

To me it seems like Pinot is more explosive/punchy, so I'd think he has more potential in the hills. He has never done any hilly classics in form, though, so it's hard to know. Quintana was never seen in the front in the short "walls" in the Vuelta, which goes to show that his abilities in short hills are limited.

But what race has Pinot done well in that is of the same level as Emilia, Tre Valli Varesine is the only one that comes to mind. But I rate Quintana's competition at Emilia as higher than what Pinot had at TVV (plus Quintana won). And there is also, as Ryo said, his performance at Lombardia.

Not to say that Pinot can't or won't be a great hilly classics rider, but based on results (and from how Quintana won emillia and how he rode in Lombardia) I rate him as slightly better for the hilly classics at this point.

 

[greenedge]

you forget argiro ospina, who is already above level of dombrowski imo. but you will find out about him next year.

Rolland's best bet would be the Vuelta or the Giro, I can't see him winning the Tour, even if he improves his TTing ability he probably won't be able to do much better than a podium place. With the way Unipublic create Vuelta routes, I think he should focus on it more so than the Giro. Also he really needs to move from Europcar if he wants to win one. They aren't capable of supporting him, and they aren't likely to gain invites to the Vuelta or Giro regularly.

Wait - did you really just compare Pinot to Valverde? That's hilarious.

@BBB:For in the future. He does share characteristics at the moment. Pinot can climb just like Valverde and sprint so i was just saying that he could be like him in the future- the whole thread talks about these 2 basically as GT winners.

@RH: Stop giving away CQ picks.

@Alphabet: I agree but he could continue developing so that could allow him to win the TDF. Europcar have a team that can support him in Voeckler, Charteau, Cousin, Kern, Jerome...

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

and where is your proof that pinot has the engine to go 250 km in a classic?

Exactly. It's not just about explosiveness or guys like Slagter would be way up there as future contenders for a Liege podium. They may still be, but nothing points to that right now.

Much shorter semi-classics or sub- 200 km hilly stages are a different matter ofc.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

The last year: 9th in Beghelli, race winned by Pozzato. 3rd in Tre Valli Varesine winned by Rebellin. Stage of St Savin (Rhone-Alpes Isère Tour)
In 2010: 14th in Montreal and 15th in Paris Camembert in his first professional season with 20 years. So those are the arguments. I dont write things without them. And i continue thinking the same. Pinot has more potential as a classics rider.

With you on this. Going for classics would not be a problem for Pinot.
However we probably won't know for a while since being French and a big GT hope means Pinot will be firmly focused on stage racing for the next few years.

 

[The Hitch]

Volta a Catalunya

Real cycling fans - 2
2012 Tour de France fans - 0

 

[LaFlorecita]

Volta a Catalunya

Real cycling fans - 2
2012 Tour de France fans - 0

that is pretty stupid. I think Pinot is a huge talent and I am not a 2012 Tour de France fan

 

[Gloin22]

Considering this is Pinot's first race since month, and Quintana riding Paris Nice as preparation for this, he should be in much better shape.

Is this really a surprise

 

[Gloin22]

Volta a Catalunya

Real cycling fans - 2
2012 Tour de France fans - 0

Considering this is Pinot's first race since month, and Quintana riding Paris Nice as preparation for this, he should be in much better shape.

Is this really a surprise

 

[airstream]

I don't know. I don't believen in them as GT podium finishers. Nairo will probably become a climber like Soler or Botero to fight for Polka dot in the Tour. Pinot is rather a future Voeckler.

 

[Gloin22]

I don't know. I don't believen in them as GT podium finishers. Nairo will probably become a climber like Soler or Botero to fight for Polka dot in the Tour. Pinot is rather a future Voeckler.

What? Pinot is already a better climber Voeckler ever was in my opinion.

Quitnana has few weakness, and for now is rather a climber than a GC contender. But can't judge him until he rode his first GT as total leader.

 

[Gloin22]

I don't know. I don't believen in them as GT podium finishers. Nairo will probably become a climber like Soler or Botero to fight for Polka dot in the Tour. Pinot is rather a future Voeckler.

What? Pinot is already a better climber Voeckler ever was in my opinion.

Quitnana has few weakness, and for now is rather a great climber than a true GC contender obviously. But can't judge him until he rode his first GT as total leader.

 

[Carstenbf]

Thing of beauty watching that Quintana climb today. So fluid and effortless. He's got my vote.

 

[Escarabajo]

I don't know. I don't believen in them as GT podium finishers. Nairo will probably become a climber like Soler or Botero to fight for Polka dot in the Tour. Pinot is rather a future Voeckler.

Quintana is already different to those two. Especially Botero. Really comparing Quintana with Botero is out of whack. Completely different built.

I was very excited with Quintana last year but is looking better and better since he is so young and already beating the other experienced riders.

How can somebody see weaknesses in Quintana so far? We don't have enough history to see that. Not like Uran. He will probably show weaknesses in the future but so far they are limited. And please don't come back to tell me that he cannot TT like Wiggins because that's also a silly comparison for a rider of his size.

 

[Angliru]

I don't know. I don't believen in them as GT podium finishers. Nairo will probably become a climber like Soler or Botero to fight for Polka dot in the Tour. Pinot is rather a future Voeckler.

You do realize that Botero was a gt podium finisher? Soler's career of course was cut short before he could show his true worth. Soler was polka dot winner quite early in his career in a Tour where unlike many past KoM winners he was consistently climbing with the elite gc riders. I think the fact that Quintana reached the 3rd week of the Vuelta with the form to climb with 3 of the best climbers in the world bodes well for his gt prospects beyond just KoM titles exclusively.

Pinot has shown that he can reach the Tour gc top 10 without benefit of being allowed to reach that position by way of a non-threatening breakaway. Like Quintana his climbing with the elite gc riders in the last week of grand tour is a decent indication that he just may be capable of sustaining and likely surpassing that effort in the future.
If he's allowed to ride other grand tours (being French that will be hard, at least in the near future) he could potentially reach the podium. If his climbing talents continue to improve I could see him getting close to a Tour podium, at a Tour with a parcours complimentary to his talents (very unlike the 2012 Tour).

 

[Jason_Mercier]

Volta a Catalunya

Real cycling fans - 2
2012 Tour de France fans - 0

One month since Pinot rode for the last time before Catalunya. Quintana cames from Paris Nice.

See you in Pays Basque.

 

[42x16ss]

You do realize that Botero was a gt podium finisher? Soler's career of course was cut short before he could show his true worth. Soler was polka dot winner quite early in his career in a Tour where unlike many past KoM winners he was consistently climbing with the elite gc riders. I think the fact that Quintana reached the 3rd week of the Vuelta with the form to climb with 3 of the best climbers in the world bodes well for his gt prospects beyond just KoM titles exclusively.

Pinot has shown that he can reach the Tour gc top 10 without benefit of being allowed to reach that position by way of a non-threatening breakaway. Like Quintana his climbing with the elite gc riders in the last week of grand tour is a decent indication that he just may be capable of sustaining and likely surpassing that effort in the future.
If he's allowed to ride other grand tours (being French that will be hard, at least in the near future) he could potentially reach the podium. If his climbing talents continue to improve I could see him getting close to a Tour podium, at a Tour with a parcours complimentary to his talents (very unlike the 2012 Tour).

Good summary. Either way, these two (IMO) are the most exciting young climbing prospects getting around but it is still too early both in the season and their careers to say one is definitely stronger than the other.

FWIW Quintana has the upper hand ATM as he's carrying Vuelta form and started his season earlier while Pinot slowed after the TdF. Having said that Quintana's 3rd week at the Vuelta, the Emilia win and his ride at Lombardia give him my vote. I also hope he sets the Giro alight.

However, don't be surprised if Pinot outrides him later in the season when his goals come along.