The Gianni Moscon Bandwagon Jumping Thread

[Vasilis]

Re: Re:

Team Sky’s Rod Ellingworth drew comparisons between Gianni Moscon and Tom Boonen after the 22-year-old Italian took fifth at Paris-Roubaix on Sunday

Stupidly they try to put more pressure on him instead of Rowe and others

whats your point caller? are you saying the British team are throwing the young Italian rider under the bus?

maybe they think he will be the next big cobbled rider but hey lets take a negative point anyway...why can't you just take it as a compliant

I think he means it may not be good for Moscon to have this pressure of being compared to Boonen, because that's quite a reputation to live up to. It may not be beneficial to his development to 'need' to be as good as Boonen, he may succumb to that pressure.

 

[nuvolablu]

Not a good comparison, they are completely different riders and Boonen is 15 kgs heavier. He's much more similar to Gilbert or Kwiatkowski, puncheurs who can also be good in the cobble races.
Ronde and Liège are the best race for him IMO.


Yesterday he rode a very smart race, attacking before the hardest cobble sections to get some advantage on the stronger guys.
Hopefully he'll also get a free role a in the next 2 weeks.

 

[Angliru]

UCI needs to implement some form of sensitivity program if they are sincere about opening the sport up to more nationalities as they're increased involvement will be a natural consequence of expanding the sport to underexposed parts of the globe. They may already have a system in place and maybe Team Sky needs to implement their own program.

 

[AlexNYC]

I'm disgusted by so-called cycling fans who hate cyclists, but I have to admit this idiot has made me
come close to doing the same thing: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/moscon-racially-abuses-reza-at-tour-de-romandie/

At the very least, this incident will make me dislike him forever, which absolutely sucks because it's not going to be fun watching him in races.

 

[RedheadDane]

Or, maybe you can hope that he'll have learned from his mistake, and it won't happen again.

 

[hrotha]

Yeah, he'll learn to keep his racism to himself or to his circle of friends. It probably won't happen again, but that doesn't change who he is. So **** him.

Welcome to the Gianni Moscon Bandwagon Jumping-Off Thread.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Or, maybe you can hope that he'll have learned from his mistake, and it won't happen again.

It'll take time to rise above what inside of him motivated such actions. One doesn't just change their stripes with a snap of a finger. He's apologetic now because he's in the public eye and his reputation is at stake. His beliefs haven't changed.

 

[RedheadDane]

Now we're back to the discussion we had a while back with regards to Albasini. People can change. Sometimes people say things which they do regret, not just because of bad publicity, but because they realise that it actually hurt someone.
How can we expect people to change if we don't actually believe they have changed?

As for what motivated it: Unfortunately it seems that to some degree society motivated it.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Hugely disappointing of course, but people need to calm down, what he's done is bad, but it's words that's all. I personally I'm going to give him a second chance, he's young and was perhaps naïve. There are far worst people in sport who despite it are admired (Suarez for example). He's hugely talented and I think it would be wrong for him to spend the rest of his career with this weighing down on him.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re:

Now we're back to the discussion we had a while back with regards to Albasini. People can change. Sometimes people say things which they do regret, not just because of bad publicity, but because they realise that it actually hurt someone.
How can we expect people to change if we don't actually believe they have changed?

As for what motivated it: Unfortunately it seems that to some degree society motivated it.

Exactly some people are brought up in a society were these things are not frowned upon, I personally believe moscon didn't realize the effects this would have and how wrong he was. He's apologized which shouldn't be understated, I believe he's learned his lesson but I guess we'll only know with time.

 

[Red Rick]

We know for certain that Moscon yelled something offensive. That's about the only thing we know.

One can only make assumptions as to why he did it, and base our own judgment of a person on our own assumptions forever.

That helps nobody. So unless there's actions involved instead of some heated words I'm inclined to just roll my eyes and think 'not this *** again'.

Moscon's was probably a knee-jerk reaction. This problem isn't solved by making more of those.

 

[hrotha]

He's a 21st century Italian in a very international working environment, not a 1880s casually anti-Semitic German. Overt racism of the kind he displayed is very much frowned upon in his own society. That excuse won't fly.

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Re:

Hugely disappointing of course, but people need to calm down, what he's done is bad, but it's words that's all. I personally I'm going to give him a second chance, he's young and was perhaps naïve. There are far worst people in sport who despite it are admired (Suarez for example). He's hugely talented and I think it would be wrong for him to spend the rest of his career with this weighing down on him.

He should have thought about that before making his racist insults. These guys work in a professional environment and have some kind of an exemplary function. This is totally unacceptable and his reputation will be damaged forever. Too bad, I really like him as a rider.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Now we're back to the discussion we had a while back with regards to Albasini. People can change. Sometimes people say things which they do regret, not just because of bad publicity, but because they realise that it actually hurt someone.
How can we expect people to change if we don't actually believe they have changed?

As for what motivated it: Unfortunately it seems that to some degree society motivated it.

Exactly some people are brought up in a society were these things are not frowned upon, I personally believe moscon didn't realize the effects this would have and how wrong he was. He's apologized which shouldn't be understated, I believe he's learned his lesson but I guess we'll only know with time.

Why not? It's an utterly meaningless gesture. Of course he's going to throw out a few words of apology if his job and potentially his career is on the line. Only the most dogmatic neo-nazi types wouldn't offer a token apology in that situation.

If the UCI and Sky don't give a serious punishment then they are effectively trivialising racist abuse. It might be slightly harsh on Moscon and making an example of him - although I'm not sure I buy the 'naive farmer's boy' explanation. And, if he is, so what? If he gets sacked and has to get back into the sport the hard way, then he can at least get a taste of the difficulties and obstacles that still exist for many black riders trying to make it in the sport.

 

[RedheadDane]

The thing is, when you're angry you don't really think.

And when I said society I didn't mean Italian society, or even "cycling society". I meant (Western) society as a whole. Even if that sort of mentality isn't consciously accepted, I think it's unfortunately still seeping through in ways you don't even notice, and I think we're all affected by it.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

We know for certain that Moscon yelled something offensive. That's about the only thing we know.

One can only make assumptions as to why he did it, and base our own judgment of a person on our own assumptions forever.

That helps nobody. So unless there's actions involved instead of some heated words I'm inclined to just roll my eyes and think 'not this **** again'.

Moscon's was probably a knee-jerk reaction. This problem isn't solved by making more of those.

Erm, no. Sky confirmed he racially abused another rider. That's not just something offensive. It's something illegal in a lot of countries - including Switzerland where it carries up to a three year prison sentence.

This is the 21st century. Racial abuse is a crime, and with good reason. I think some of the apologists should try to understand that.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Now we're back to the discussion we had a while back with regards to Albasini. People can change. Sometimes people say things which they do regret, not just because of bad publicity, but because they realise that it actually hurt someone.
How can we expect people to change if we don't actually believe they have changed?

As for what motivated it: Unfortunately it seems that to some degree society motivated it.

Exactly some people are brought up in a society were these things are not frowned upon, I personally believe moscon didn't realize the effects this would have and how wrong he was. He's apologized which shouldn't be understated, I believe he's learned his lesson but I guess we'll only know with time.

Why not? It's an utterly meaningless gesture. Of course he's going to throw out a few words of apology if his job and potentially his career is on the line. Only the most dogmatic neo-nazi types wouldn't offer a token apology in that situation.

If the UCI and Sky don't give a serious punishment then they are effectively trivialising racist abuse. It might be slightly harsh on Moscon and making an example of him - although I'm not sure I buy the 'naive farmer's boy' explanation. And, if he is, so what? If he gets sacked and has to get back into the sport the hard way, then he can at least get a taste of the difficulties and obstacles that still exist for many black riders trying to make it in the sport.

So if words can't make a right, why can they make such a huge wrong?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Now we're back to the discussion we had a while back with regards to Albasini. People can change. Sometimes people say things which they do regret, not just because of bad publicity, but because they realise that it actually hurt someone.
How can we expect people to change if we don't actually believe they have changed?

As for what motivated it: Unfortunately it seems that to some degree society motivated it.

Exactly some people are brought up in a society were these things are not frowned upon, I personally believe moscon didn't realize the effects this would have and how wrong he was. He's apologized which shouldn't be understated, I believe he's learned his lesson but I guess we'll only know with time.

Why not? It's an utterly meaningless gesture. Of course he's going to throw out a few words of apology if his job and potentially his career is on the line. Only the most dogmatic neo-nazi types wouldn't offer a token apology in that situation.

If the UCI and Sky don't give a serious punishment then they are effectively trivialising racist abuse. It might be slightly harsh on Moscon and making an example of him - although I'm not sure I buy the 'naive farmer's boy' explanation. And, if he is, so what? If he gets sacked and has to get back into the sport the hard way, then he can at least get a taste of the difficulties and obstacles that still exist for many black riders trying to make it in the sport.

So if words can't make a right, why can they make such a huge wrong?

 

[hrotha]

Of course Western society is still racist and most of us are still racist at some level, but there's a huge gap between overt and internalized racism.

 

[RedheadDane]

Sometimes internalized racism becomes overt when you're angry. Of course you should learn to manage your anger, so you don't say anything hurtful, but I still think it would be wrong to assume that people can never change. Never learn that some things you should just never say, no matter how angry you are.
And it seem Reza is the bigger person in all of this, having already accepted the apology.

 

[hrotha]

I disagree that anger is going to make someone who is not a proper racist resort to racist insults. And I'm not saying that people can't change, just that they don't change overnight and that doing something your bosses force you to doesn't equal redemption.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Most of the time our decisions about whether or not to like a rider are based on much more trivial factors than him racially abusing someone. There are riders I never cheer for because they convinced the peloton to slow down in some race or because they concentrate on invisibly accumulating minor placings. I'm quite comfortable shifting someone firmly into the riders I don't like category when he has actually used racial slurs against another rider.

That doesn't mean that I think he should necessarily be ostracised for life. People do change and people do learn. Being a racist isn't necessarily a permanent condition. But I'm not going to assume that he has changed or learnt until he actually demonstrates that he has. It is a small point in his favour that he has confessed rather than insulting everyone's intelligence and trying to convince people that he was somehow repeatedly misheard as Albasini did.

 

[Jancouver]

It is my understanding that most (or many) Italians from the northern part consider everything south of Florence an "Africa". At least that what I have been told on more than one occasion by many Italians. So I'm not surprised one bit by his behaviour.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

I pretty much agree with just about everything Hrotha, Angliru, and Zinoviev have written.

The thing is, when you're angry you don't really think.

Sure but stuff doesn't just fly out of your mouth unless it's the kind of thing you already think to a certain extent. I don't really know you, but could you see yourself in an argument with a black person and calling them a dirty ni**er? I agree people can change but that takes time and doesn't automatically happen just because someone apologizes.

Reza is certainly more forgiving than I'd be - that said, we don't know exactly what he said and some things would be worse than others. Additionally, we don't know how forgiving Reza really is. Good chance he forgave Moscon because he felt like that's what people wanted and expected him to do, similar to what Moscon did by apologizing in the 1st place - I guarantee he has thoughts about Moscon he isn't going to share with the public.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

It is my understanding that most (or many) Italians from the northern part consider everything south of Florence an "Africa". At least that what I have been told on more than one occasion by many Italians. So I'm not surprised one bit by his behaviour.

Tbf that is true :lol: :lol: . Terroneland is something you don't want ever to witness

Pizza, pasta, sun and doing **** all :lol:

I don't think this post is OK