The Hog admits Treks sold on eBay

[Moose McKnuckles]

Lance, I'll be the lookout in case Novitsky shows up.

 

[kurtinsc]

Technically... Bruyneel only said that the 2007 Disco bikes were the only ones sold... ON EBAY.

There are a million other ways to sell a bike I imagine.

 

[Lepsallini]

Yes, it does, but it happens at the end of the year, not mid-season. Floyd said he needed a replacement bike during the year, and was told none were available.

Yes, and floyd should be put under oath to say that, then pressured to come up with concrete proof that this happened. However, I find it very hard to believe that one of the very best funded teams at that time could not or would not find a replacement bike for one of the top mtn goats on Lance's A-Squad for the TdF. My BS meter just exploded, floyd.

To me, it seems that floyd is batting less than 100% at this stage. And based on his past fundamental flaw of being a long-term liar, plus the very clear motive of himself and Lemond and the release of the supposed smoking gun on the eve of the Tour, everything FL says should immediately be considered suspect until proven. No more benefit of the doubt for him or Lemond. If they were really concerned about the future of the sport, or if they really had something, it wouldn't matter to the Feds what day of the week it was released or even if it was August or May. It was clearly meant to be a stab at LA without regard to cycling's image and if a federal probe resulted, then more so the better.

But the motive seems clear to me that this whole schtick was not intended to clean up cycling, just another round of retaliation and revenge. So when the motive becomes suspect, so too should the "firsthand reports" and piles of hearsay.

 

[goober]

Lance, I'll be the lookout in case Novitsky shows up.

Actually in this photo he is looking out for AFLD as the transfusions are occuring.

 

[riobonito92]

I'm not sure paying their taxes is the primary issue... it's what was done with the money, right? If they bought socks, Gu and Livestrong trainers... no big deal. I thought the issue was buying PEDs with an off the record source of cash.

I wonder if this is something that will be corroborated by one of the other riders. Was Floyd really the only rider who had to ride an old and busted Trek? If GH or TH or JV had the same issue, wouldn't they say so if deposed by Novitsky?

And this is the point: Let's imagine:

1. Suspect A admits to selling bikes
2. Suspect A admits it was for cash and no records were kept.
3. Investigator claims said cash was used for buying PEDS
4. Suspect says, "No, I gave the cash to the riders as an end of year bonus, back pocket stuff, everyone does it, it is one of the traditions of the sport." or even, "Well I know it is unusual to sell bikes mid year but we were short of socks and and we needed to pay a few hotel bills."

I do not see how the bikes get linked to PEDS unless someone admits it.

 

[goober]

Technically... Bruyneel only said that the 2007 Disco bikes were the only ones sold... ON EBAY.

There are a million other ways to sell a bike I imagine.

Technically.... Bruyneel only said "I think there were bikes sold on eBay". Lets analyze that statement.

"I think there were bikes sold on eBay". He thinks which infers he is not sure; hence, he is thinking about it.

"I think there were bikes sold on eBay". There were bikes, not the bikes, which infers some of the bikes not all.

 

[Benotti69]

And this is the point: Let's imagine:

........

I do not see how the bikes get linked to PEDS unless someone admits it.

Landis admitted it. Then others will to save their sub 78kg a$$es......

 

[MacRoadie]

Let's keep in mind what Trek has already said:

The Case of the Missing Bikes

Robert Burns, general counsel for Trek, said the company was aware that bikes meant for U.S. Postal riders were being sold, but said it didn't know what the money was used for. "Occasionally, you'd see a bike on the Internet somewhere where it would surprise us," said Mr. Burns, who recalled an instance where one of the team bikes was sold in a bike shop in Belgium. There wasn't much Trek could do to stop such sales. "Once that stuff goes to the director sportif and the mechanic of the team, it's in their possession," Mr. Burns said. He declined to comment about whether Trek had been contacted by investigators.

About three years ago, Trek began writing into its contracts that the pro teams it sponsored had to pass the bike frames on to their junior teams. "We just got more specific about it," explained Mr. Burns. "We didn't want to see that stuff getting sold on the market. It should be going to a better use than that."

So,

1. Trek says the bikes were being sold as far back as Postal
2. Trek obviously actively tracks the resale traffic of these bikes
3. Regardless of "how things are done", it "surprised" them and they didn't like it
4. The bikes popped up online and in shops (just how many were there?)
5. They no longer allow that practice to continue (since 2007). So check that "authentic" Astana Madone you bought on Craigs List.

 

[goober]

Landis admitted it. Then others will to save their sub 78kg a$$es......

I don't recall Landis admitting to selling bikes and buying PEDs. My recollection is Landis accusing someone of doing that.

 

[riobonito92]

I don't recall Landis admitting to selling bikes and buying PEDs. My recollection is Landis accusing someone of doing that.

Trek says bikes were sold
Landis says bikes were sold
Bruyneel almost admits bikes were sold
So bikes were sold.

PEDs were bought - but no-one is saying how, by whom or where. Presumably receipts are not going to show up.

Unless he knows more than he is saying, Landis is only assuming that there is a link between the sale of the bikes and the purchase of PEDs. That seems like a fair assumption, but I'm not sure you would get very far with it in a court of law.

 

[goober]

Trek says bikes were sold
Landis says bikes were sold
Bruyneel almost admits bikes were sold
So bikes were sold.

PEDs were bought - but no-one is saying how, by whom or where. Presumably receipts are not going to show up.

Unless he knows more than he is saying, Landis is only assuming that there is a link between the sale of the bikes and the purchase of PEDs. That seems like a fair assumption, but I'm not sure you would get very far with it in a court of law.

I agree. I was supporting your position that someone would have to admit it or there would have to be evidence.

 

[tubularglue]

i have no idea where the money went

 

[riobonito92]

i have no idea where the money went

If my team is anything to go by the answer is

1. gasoline
2. gasoline
3. gasoline

But then we don't have a PED programme.

 

[Polish]

Did Floyd have to pay out of his own pocket for the Postal PEDS?

I doubt it. Probably got them for free. Just like his bike. Room and Board.
And a juicy contract to boot. Lance even tried to gift him TdF stage win.


Ungrateful boogar

 

[Benotti69]

I don't recall Landis admitting to selling bikes and buying PEDs. My recollection is Landis accusing someone of doing that.

my recollection is of Landis being in USPS not getting a new bike and racing on an old bike and not having a TT to train on, there are photos to verify this. He admitted to why he did not have his equipment. Because USPS sold them for PEDs.

wanna split hairs. split them. you would be better of helping LA by flogging some more yellow wrist bands, he's gonna need the cash real soon

 

[Benotti69]

Did Floyd have to pay out of his own pocket for the Postal PEDS?

I doubt it. Probably got them for free. Just like his bike. Room and Board.
And a juicy contract to boot. Lance even tried to gift him TdF stage win.


Ungrateful boogar

how long does it to take for you to polish LA's ball? Landis was on not much, that is why he left to go to Phonak for the money. The PEDs were paid for with bikes and probably the winnings that were supposed to got to riders went on PEDs so they could ride their asses off to ensure Uniballer would win and make him richer.

 

[Greg Johnson]

Trek says bikes were sold
Landis says bikes were sold
Bruyneel almost admits bikes were sold
So bikes were sold.

And yet, none of that is new information. It was a widely know fact - and if I recall even reported on Cyclingnews at the time - that the Disco bikes were being sold on eBay after the team's closure.

Cheers
Greg Johnson

 

[Polish]

he left to go to Phonak for the money.

And besides the nice$$ Phonak contract after jumping ship, Floyd claims he made Phonak fork over cash for PEDS. Cool BMC bikes for free too.

 

[MacRoadie]

And yet, none of that is new information. It was a widely know fact - and if I recall even reported on Cyclingnews at the time - that the Disco bikes were being sold on eBay after the team's closure.

Cheers
Greg Johnson

I don't mean to single you out, but I'm having a hard time seeing where the confusion arises.

Floyd didn't ride on Disco, he rode for Postal. Floyd intimates that Postal team bikes were going missing in the middle of the season. Trek says Postal team bikes turned up on the internet and in at least one Belgian bike shop.

Cyclingnews and Johan speak of Disco bikes selling after the team folded in 2007 (a well-known fact, but immaterial to Floyd's claims), not Postal bikes selling while the team was still viable and in the middle of the racing season in 2004.

Cheers

 

[powerste]

Floyd didn't ride on Disco, he rode for Postal.

FLandis going postal in a disco - now there's something I'd like to see

 

[dbrower]

Non-informative non-admission

Johan said, "At the end of the Discovery Channel's sponsorship, I think there were bikes sold on eBay."

He isn't saying no USPS bikes were sold earlier; he's saying there were bikes sold when Disco folded. This is, as Mr. Ziegler defined, a "modified, limited hangout", of no informative value at all.

-dB

 

[checked]

The hog - they only sold bikes after Disco ceased sponsorship of his team.
Trek - they're aware of US Postal bikes being sold over the net.

This means the Floyd is really a liar coz the hog's "team" still have surplus supply of USPS bikes that they sold over the internet when Disco's sponsorship is over?

(am back to sleep )

 

[sliceofpy]

And this is the point: Let's imagine:

1. Suspect A admits to selling bikes
2. Suspect A admits it was for cash and no records were kept.
3. Investigator claims said cash was used for buying PEDS
4. Suspect says, "No, I gave the cash to the riders as an end of year bonus, back pocket stuff, everyone does it, it is one of the traditions of the sport." or even, "Well I know it is unusual to sell bikes mid year but we were short of socks and and we needed to pay a few hotel bills."

I do not see how the bikes get linked to PEDS unless someone admits it.

Got it, and I agree with the last part. Someone else has to corroborate FL story. To me, it seems like the feds are ensuring all the loose ends are tied up: motive, method, finance, etc.

Why would a well financed team like Disco or Postal need to sell bikes for cash when most if not all of their ongoing, documented expenses (socks, kit, chamois ****'r, bikes, hotels, gasoline) are already taken care of. If not for PEDs, them what else? Strippers and blow? Either way, I think it's fraud right? And they're f*ckt?

 

[MacRoadie]

Johan said, "At the end of the Discovery Channel's sponsorship, I think there were bikes sold on eBay."

He isn't saying no USPS bikes were sold earlier; he's saying there were bikes sold when Disco folded. This is, as Mr. Ziegler defined, a "modified, limited hangout", of no informative value at all.

-dB

Absolutely true.

On the flip side of the coin, we have people arguing that because a defunct team sold a handful of collectible bikes with "certificates of authenticity" on Ebay and that these bikes were common knowledge (and obviously prime candidates for Johan to acknowledge), that Floyds assertion that other bikes from a different team, under arguably different mamagement sold surrepetitiously three years earlier and in the middle of a racing season are somehow "old news".

 

[velosopher54]

Trek says bikes were sold
Landis says bikes were sold
Bruyneel almost admits bikes were sold
So bikes were sold.

PEDs were bought - but no-one is saying how, by whom or where. Presumably receipts are not going to show up.

Unless he knows more than he is saying, Landis is only assuming that there is a link between the sale of the bikes and the purchase of PEDs. That seems like a fair assumption, but I'm not sure you would get very far with it in a court of law.

That's Novitsky's job, which is why he is talking to the people at Trek, probably getting serial numbers, dates, who received them and when, etc. Following the paper trail is what it's all about. When the paper trail ends, he calls witnesses and gets at the truth that way.

I think 'some' of the assumptions made here are pretty close to the truth, and before this ever sees court, Novitsky will know pretty much what happened. I am curious to see who gets thrown under the bus, LA, the Hog, Stapleton, team doctors, etc. Someone is going to take the big fall and I'm pretty sure it's not going to be LA. He'll fall no doubt but he's not going to take the biggest hit because he'll toss the Hog to the wolves first, I think.