The importance of crank length to the cyclist.

[FrankDay]

Real performance gains inspire me. Not imaginary, made up or insignificant gains.

Also real feats of performance like Wiggins winning the Tour or Vos winning the Olympic Games Road Race.

I guess that is what sets us apart. While I can be impressed by athletic performance per se I am intellectually stimulated more by trying to understand mechanisms behind what we see and in seeing if I can find a better way of doing things. You don't seem to understand why anyone would even ask these questions.

 

[CoachFergie]

I guess that is what sets us apart. While I can be impressed by athletic performance per se I am intellectually stimulated more by trying to understand mechanisms behind what we see and in seeing if I can find a better way of doing things. You don't seem to understand why anyone would even ask these questions.

You don't equate chasing significant performance gains with finding a better way of doing things? Amusing.

I have seen nothing in the literature or in the field that would make me consider changing from a natural pedalling technique or going radically shorter in crank length.

However observing Wiggins I may consider if I had the budget of sending riders to Tenerife to take advantage of training and living at altitude but being able to easily train intensively at sea level. Or from Vos getting my riders to compete in more cyclo cross if there is a possibility of the goal event taking place on a technical course in extreme conditions.

If I have a rider who has an imbalance between legs I would get them training on a fixed wheel bicycle like Aldo Sasso did with Cadel Evans and Ivan Basso.

 

[FrankDay]

If I have a rider who has an imbalance between legs I would get them training on a fixed wheel bicycle like Aldo Sasso did with Cadel Evans and Ivan Basso.

Do you have any scientific evidence that riding a "fixed wheel bicycle" corrects leg imbalances better than anything else? And, I find it interesting that you mention Cadel and Ivan, both PC'ers, especially with Basso ordering 3 sets of PC's for Liquigas teammates this last off season. Probably not for leg imbalances though.

 

[CoachFergie]

Do you have any scientific evidence that riding a "fixed wheel bicycle" corrects leg imbalances better than anything else?

None whatsoever, just in the same way that you have no evidence that IC's have made any significant change to the performance of any athlete.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

The fellow who did this is quite experienced, doing bike fitting for some of the top european pros but I don't know the answers to your questions. I do know the person doing this was quite blown away by the results.

I also know of one top Euro bike fitting joint that completely screws people's positions up.

Argument from authority:
IOW it's hearsay and nonsense.

 

[FrankDay]

None whatsoever, just in the same way that you have no evidence that IC's have made any significant change to the performance of any athlete.

There you are wrong. I do have evidence but the evidence doesn't satisfy the scientific criterion of constituting proof.

 

[CoachFergie]

The Performance Artist at work, you have been making these claims for years, if they were true you would have published the data because all these riders going 40% better would stand out like dogs balls.

But they don't so your proof remains imaginary!

 

[function]

I have seen nothing in the literature or in the field that would make me consider changing from a natural pedalling technique or going radically shorter in crank length.

If I have a rider who has an imbalance between legs I would get them training on a fixed wheel bicycle like Aldo Sasso did with Cadel Evans and Ivan Basso.

So in one case you depend on scientific literature to make a training decision, and in the other case you base your decision on what some guy told some other guys to do.

How is this different from what Frank is doing? Considering that you are earning an income from providing said training information too.

 

[Tapeworm]

How is this different from what Frank is doing? Considering that you are earning an income from providing said training information too.

I think that was the whole point... Kinda highlighting it through hypocrisy.

 

[FrankDay]

I think that was the whole point... Kinda highlighting it through hypocrisy.

??? I think your definition of hypocrisy is substantially different than I understand it to be and my definition seems to have little bearing on this thread or me:

hy·poc·ri·sy
   [hi-pok-ruh-see] Show IPA
noun, plural hy·poc·ri·sies.
1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.
3. an act or instance of hypocrisy.

 

[Tapeworm]

I think your definition, especially number 1, is very accurate in the circumstances. Thanks for clearing up what hypocrisy is Frank.

Ie: I wholeheartedly believe that fixed gear riding will cure people of all cycling imbalances and teach them to pedal more efficiently... based on no evidence whatsoever.

See how that works? Sound familiar?

 

[FrankDay]

I wholeheartedly believe that fixed gear riding will cure people of all cycling imbalances and teach them to pedal more efficiently... based on no evidence whatsoever.

That is cool, if that is what you believe. But, what does this have to do with virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs? (Perhaps you think that admitting that you have no evidence whatsoever to back up your belief is evidence of your virtuous character?)

 

[Tapeworm]

Wow, this is like trying to explain why a joke is funny to a 5 year old, once we get there it won't be funny anymore.

 

[FrankDay]

Wow, this is like trying to explain why a joke is funny to a 5 year old, once we get there it won't be funny anymore.

"I think that was the whole point... Kinda highlighting it through hypocrisy. " That was a joke? If you say so. Consider me a 5 yo in my joke appreciation skills.

 

[Tapeworm]

Comprehension skills what you yourself write and that of others needs a bit of work Frank. Read a little slower and pay attention.

 

[FrankDay]

Comprehension skills what you yourself write and that of others needs a bit of work Frank. Read a little slower and pay attention.

LOL, now that is a joke I can understand.

 

[CoachFergie]

So in one case you depend on scientific literature to make a training decision, and in the other case you base your decision on what some guy told some other guys to do.

How is this different from what Frank is doing? Considering that you are earning an income from providing said training information too.

The second comment was a dig at Frank. I have seen nothing in the literature or in the field that would make testing LR balance a major priority.

 

[sciguy]

I found out something new about the above athlete, Greg Taylor, today. "There are 23 70.3 age group world champions. And there are 23 Ironman age group world champions. But there is only one person who is both 70.3 and Ironman age group world champion. And that person is me."

We are going to try to set him up with some of our lightest weight racing cranks as he tries to defend his title in less than a month. He has asked for 150 mm on the left and 145 mm on the right. If he wins again what crank length should we claim he used?

Any idea what happened to Greg this year? It looks like things started going to pieces on the bike and then he decided to call it a day half way though the run. It was a tough day for many with significant winds returning this year plus the usual heat and humidity.

Hugh

 

[FrankDay]

Any idea what happened to Greg this year? It looks like things started going to pieces on the bike and then he decided to call it a day half way though the run. It was a tough day for many with significant winds returning this year plus the usual heat and humidity.

Hugh

No, I haven't heard from him. I was going to wait a couple of days before bugging him. I suppose it was just one of those days where things weren't clicking. Several seemed to have that this year. Did you notice that both winners overall are long-time PC'ers finally making it to the top step on the biggest stage? Not sure what crank length either rode though for the purposes of this thread.

 

[CoachFergie]

Did you notice that both winners overall are long-time PC'ers finally making it to the top step on the biggest stage?

Got any evidence that they had any effect on their performance?

 

[Boeing]

Got any evidence that they had any effect on their performance?

please refrain for bullying

 

[FrankDay]

Any idea what happened to Greg this year? It looks like things started going to pieces on the bike and then he decided to call it a day half way though the run. It was a tough day for many with significant winds returning this year plus the usual heat and humidity.

Hugh

Hugh, the story:

This year I started the swim to the right thinking I could pick up a draft ,every minute a possible difference. With a line of surfers blocking the right side of the course near the start we got CRUSHED as the mob moved right. Dislodged goggles and foaming water forced me to seek the saftey of a surf board! THEN I crashed hard getting on my bike, my front tire slipping on the carpet which this year extended beyond the mount line, my previously fracturd shoulder finding asphalt. At mile twenty came up on me preventing a move from behind a slower rider I had just caaught. This group will break up and I will move left and then....." NUMBER 354. YOU HAVE BEEN ON THAT GUY'S WHEEL. I AM GIVING YOU A RED CARD....." The absolute ANGER in the marshal's voice cut to the core on top of nearly drowning and then crashing!

The run started rather good, 7:35 pace coming easily. But by mile 8 an 8 minute pace was hard and getting harder. By mile 13 I had to stop, stretch and then struggle on to mile 14 where it all came apart mentally and physically. I had trained too hard and too long and really too well for it to feel so bad with 13 miles to go. Even being in third place was not enough to keep me going. Unmet expectations encountered unexpected setbacks. Now the disappointment of DNF rests on a painful shoulder and bruised hip.

 

[Tapeworm]

Amazing how every triathlete done for drafting "had only just come up to overtake..." or "I only just been overtaken by this guy..." or "I was more than 20 meters from anyone's wheel when..."

Never once have I heard, "Yeah I was a wheel sucking mofo and they pinged me for it."

Which is surprising given the packs of riders I see in triathlon.

But I am sure this guy was just the victim of an overzealous marshal.

 

[Polyarmour]

Met a guy on Powercranks today. Triathlete. Said he'd been training on them for 5 yea rs. He was no faster on the bike but his running off the bike had improved because the spinning reduced the load on his quads.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Met a guy on Powercranks today. Triathlete. Said he'd been training on them for 5 yea rs. He was no faster on the bike but his running off the bike had improved because the spinning reduced the load on his quads.

How have you (or he) established this causal link?