The Iron Lady has passed away

[Le breton]

Typically, I find that Thatcher supporters are the kind of people that would throw their support behind anybody as long as they were anti-communist, regardless of what their other policies were. Suharto serves as a good example.

Political deaths are crap. I'm having my Facebook flooded by (young, Australian) people talking about it which is quite strange, because said people are usually very inactive politically, don't ever talk about politics and yet fixate on events that never had anything to do with their context of being sub-20 year olds in Australia.

Isn't it ironic that what she considered to be one of her biggest triumphs :
her victory 650 to 255 against Argentina
was won against a dictator
who was a clone of her dear friend Pinochet.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Driven by principle and conviction. Was one of the main people who was behind the opening up of the world economy and the free market.

And she should have been held accountable for that by a trial.

Good riddance, but of course not nice for her family.

 

[del1962]

She can't hear it, she can't read it. If people are allowed to remember what they loved about someone, why can what they hated about them not be remembered too? It is absurd that we feel the need to conduct this posthumous whitewashing of a legacy.

What has whitewashing of her legacy got to do with not celebrating

She did a lot of bad things, she did some good things, she hasn't been in power for over 20 years

The days to celebrate where in 1990 and 1997 not today, its not like a death like Gadaffis or Caecescus where the death = fall from power (not that I am suggesting she was anywhere near as bad as those two)

 

[VeloCity]

She is rightfully and idol of conservatism, individual liberty and free markets. Most importantly, she had conviction.

Thatcher was a big fan of the NHS, she increased taxes to the point where taxes were a higher percentage of GDP when she left than when she arrived, she was a strong proponent of doing something to address global warming (she was a chemist after all, and unlike so many on the right, actually understood the science), and she supported gun control. Like Reagan, if today's "conservatives" actually knew her beliefs and policies and not simply the distorted myth, she'd be absolutely reviled by the right.

 

[aphronesis]

Thatcher was a big fan of the NHS, she increased taxes to the point where taxes were a higher percentage of GDP when she left than when she arrived, she was an early believer in (and proponent of doing something to address) global warming (she was a chemist after all, and unlike so many on the right, actually understood the science), and she supported gun control. Like Reagan, if today's "conservatives" actually knew her beliefs and policies and not simply the twisted myth, she'd be absolutely reviled by the right.

This may all be so, but let's not twist the support of gun control to suit your own particular contemporary agenda when it was clearly in service of hers at the time--the plus and minuses of which remain very much debatable.

 

[cocteau_ireland]

Evil. She once quoted Thucydides. " The strong shall do what they will, and the weak suffer what they must".

 

[BYOP88]

Just watch from where it starts until 13 minutes,

http://youtu.be/oBDVLq-3CCY?t=12m19s

The lady is not for turning..........unless there's some serious $$$$$$$ on offer.

 

[Ferminal]

What has whitewashing of her legacy got to do with not celebrating

She did a lot of bad things, she did some good things, she hasn't been in power for over 20 years

The days to celebrate where in 1990 and 1997 not today, its not like a death like Gadaffis or Caecescus where the death = fall from power (not that I am suggesting she was anywhere near as bad as those two)

Pretty sure lots of people celebrated deaths of OBL/Gaddafi (not comparing). At the time people also condemned those celebrating.

As long as people are consistent I don't see the issue. Death is death, we shouldn't be allowed to celebrate one and not another regardless of who it is. Likewise if we can't celebrate one, we can't celebrate any. Personally I don't think it's a time for celebration but at the same time I don't think death should contribute to a pardon on what one did or didn't do when they were alive.

 

[ruamruam]

She was a horrible person.

Elvis Costello can finally now do what he promised to do in 1987.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t4-zDem1Sk

 

[VeloCity]

This may all be so, but let's not twist the support of gun control to suit your own particular contemporary agenda when it was clearly in service of hers at the time--the plus and minuses of which remain very much debatable.

Not twisting anything. Like Reagan, Thatcher was a supporter of gun control. Conservatives today are not.

Thatcher: “If [gun laws] need to be tightened up, or if we think that it could prevent anything more like this, then of course that will be considered.” A year later, the government passed the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988, which outlawed semi-automatic weapons, changed requirements on registering guns, allowed police to refuse a weapon to anyone they saw unfit, and allowed the Home Secretary to add other guns to the list of banned firearms.

Point being that its ironic that both Reagan and Thatcher are considered "conservative icons" when neither of them would be considered "true conservatives" if they were politically active today because of such views.

 

[wiggos sideburn]

Wasn't alive while she was PM so wasn't really directly affected but no matter what she did even if you didn't like her you shouldn't celebrate her death. She must of done some things right to be PM for 11 years

 

[aphronesis]

Not twisting anything. Like Reagan, Thatcher was a supporter of gun control. Conservatives today are not.
Point being that its ironic that both Reagan and Thatcher are considered "conservative icons" when neither of them would be considered "true conservatives" if they were politically active today because of such views.

That's all well and fine, but it has more to do with US domestic issues than anything else--certainly little to do with the topic of the thread when you strip the observation of all historical context. If not twisting, you're conveniently eliding the fact--as 90% percent of the posters on this thread will remind you--that gun control in the service of that particular strain of convervatism was wholly consistent with the domestic policies and issues of that moment in the UK.

Therefore, trumpeting the fact that both Reagan and Thatcher supported gun control is complete bad faith when set against their broader policies--not to mention the entire violent legacy of the 70s.

I suspect that the majority of the places in which either would not be considered "true conservatives" would be in the mouthpieces of sensationalist and reactionary media outlets

 

[del1962]

Not twisting anything. Like Reagan, Thatcher was a supporter of gun control. Conservatives today are not.
Point being that its ironic that both Reagan and Thatcher are considered "conservative icons" when neither of them would be considered "true conservatives" if they were politically active today because of such views.

You are trying to take a British Politician and throwing them into an American Context, it just does not work.

 

[aphronesis]

You are trying to take a British Politician and throwing them into an American Context, it just does not work.

Exactly. And to no useful end.

 

[Caruut]

Not twisting anything. Like Reagan, Thatcher was a supporter of gun control. Conservatives today are not.
Point being that its ironic that both Reagan and Thatcher are considered "conservative icons" when neither of them would be considered "true conservatives" if they were politically active today because of such views.

American conservatives are not in favour of gun control. In the UK a typical conservative is in favour of gun control. That she would not be considered a "true conservative" says more about America's right-wing political culture than it does about her.

 

[ebandit]

gotcha

She must of done some things right to be PM for 11 years

sold the family jewels to win popular support

was at the helm during the falklands crisis.................i recall the popular
press celebrating the sinking of the belgrano ( 1000+ dead ) gotcha!

sent soldiers dressed as policemen into charge to quell the unruly lower classes

and she stole the wee ones milk etc................

............history now............bless her family

Mark L

EDIT as reply below ...loss of life on the Belgrano was actually 323 ( should have checked detail rather than relying
upon memory! ) but still a shocking waste / reaction

 

[Amsterhammer]

She was the most unpopular leader of the country ever, and trailing in the polls iirc. A convenient if largely pointless war saved her, and enabled her to win the elections the following year.

Agree that it's pointless to compare her to the US context in any way.

 

[del1962]

She was the most unpopular leader of the country ever, and trailing in the polls iirc. A convenient if largely pointless war saved her, and enabled her to win the elections the following year.

Agree that it's pointless to compare her to the US context in any way.

She was also ably enabled by a completely inept opposition

 

[VeloCity]

You are trying to take a British Politician and throwing them into an American Context, it just does not work.

Thatcher is held up as an icon of conservatism by the modern-day American conservative movement. That's the point.

 

[TheGame]

What a sad day. Dislike or like her politics, you can not take away the fact that she had an enormous influence on the world we are living in today and where women are in society. She epitomised feminism more than most self-proclaimed feminists. This is due to the fact that she took feminism from what many feminists held it as a socially left-wing ideology to a far broader sense. She is an inspiration to someone like myself and is one of the most influential politicians of the 20th century. Many of the things she said back in her term as PM ring true today. She is rightfully and idol of conservatism, individual liberty and free markets. Most importantly, she had conviction.

Goodbye Margaret Thatcher

Are you ****ing kidding me?

She ****ed over the miners, and destroyed countless communities. Yes the mines were struggling, but she destroyed them.

She was part of the biggest police coverup of all time, in the form of the Hillsborough disaster, something that only 25 years on has been rectified.

She sold off an entire country worth of council housing, leaving millions of people forced into unaffordable rent through private housing associations and landlords.

She persecuted and harrassed through various bills and overbearing police tactics the lives of any travellers, or gypsies who didnt want to conform to the normal way of life. Try watching this> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3YtmBD_thM or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqE3SqSpT50

She privatized the energy providers, leaving us in a position now where most normal people cannot afford the ever mounting fuel costs despite the energy companies making millions of pounds in profit. Im talking fundemental things like Gas, Water, Electric, all privatized, and ****ed over by Thatcher. Millions of people in the uk now live in "fuel poverty"

She ****ed over school meals, no more free milk to children, and outsourced school meals to external companies meaning that within a matter of a year healthy school dinners were replaced with burgers, chips, and junk food. Something that 30 years on we are still trying to fix. No co-incidence the rise in obesity in the 90's

She oversaw 2, yes 2 recessions, including some of the worst rioting ever seen in the UK.. this, coupled with the minors strike and beanfield, 4 occasions in just ten years there was violence on our streets under her fascist regime.


When she came to power, the richest 50% of people accounted for 90% of the wealth. In just ten years, she left us with the richest 10% of people owning 90% of the wealth.

Scrapped the GLC which ****ed London over for coming on 15 years until we finally got Livingstone back.

Raised taxes through the roof, vat went up 10%, and did she put the money into the NHS, Schools, Welfare.. **** no, it went into the civil service..

The list is endless.

She destroyed this country, entire communities have still not recovered from the chaos she created, nutrition is still recovering, fuel poverty, the hillsborough scandal only just being uncovered.

The woman was a racist, homephobic, anti immigration, anti working classes, *****. Ask anyone over thirty, any of Thatchers children and you will find 1 in 50 support her. The entire country is celebrating her death.

As an Australian, seriously what would you know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-BZIWSI5UQ

She destroyed this country, and we are still recovering financially and socially from her ****ing mess.

 

[Le breton]

sold the family jewels to win popular support

was at the helm during the falklands crisis.................i recall the popular
press celebrating the sinking of the belgrano ( 1000+ dead ) gotcha!

sent soldiers dressed as policemen into charge to quell the unruly lower classes

and she stole the wee ones milk etc................

............history now............bless her family

Mark L

1100 on board, 323 died.

But she was a family woman, gathered all the means of the powerful nation to save her son Mark

In 1982, aged 28, the motoring enthusiast took part in the Paris-Dakar Rally with very little preparation - as he admits himself.

The result was a full-blown and embarrassing international rescue mission.

It was one of the few times he managed to knock his mother off the front pages of Britain's newspapers.

"The biggest story of 1982 was the Falklands war. The second biggest also involved my mother and me," he once wrote.

In the meantime Bobby Sands .....

 

[TheGame]

I saw a newspaper picture from the political campaign
A woman was kissing a child, who was obviously in pain
She spills with compassion, as that young childs
Face in her hands she grips
Can you imagine all that greed and avarice
Coming down on that childs lips

Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, Im trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
Long enough to savour
That's when they finally put you in the ground
Ill stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

When england was the ***** of the world
Margeret was her madam
And the future looked as bright and as clear as
The black tarmacadam
Well I hope that she sleeps well at night, isnt
Haunted by every tiny detail
Cos when she held that lovely face in her hands
All she thought of was betrayal

And now the cynical ones say that it all ends the same in the long run
Try telling that to the desperate father who just squeezed the life from his only son
And how it's only voices in your head and dreams you never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference between justice and contempt
Try telling me she isn't angry with this pitiful discontent
When they flaunt it in your face as you line up for punishment
And then expect you to say thank you straighten up, look proud and pleased
Because youve only got the symptoms, you haven't got the whole disease
Just like a schoolboy, whose heads like a tin-can
Filled up with dreams then poured down the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides, being blown to bits or beaten and maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame

Well I hope you live long now, I pray the lord your soul to keep
I think I'll be going before we fold our arms and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life could be so cheap
Cos when they finally put you in the ground
They'll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down

 

[cocteau_ireland]

Are you ****ing kidding me?

She ****ed over the miners, and destroyed countless communities. Yes the mines were struggling, but she destroyed them.

She was part of the biggest police coverup of all time, in the form of the Hillsborough disaster, something that only 25 years on has been rectified.

She sold off an entire country worth of council housing, leaving millions of people forced into unaffordable rent through private housing associations and landlords.

She persecuted and harrassed through various bills and overbearing police tactics the lives of any travellers, or gypsies who didnt want to conform to the normal way of life. Try watching this> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3YtmBD_thM or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqE3SqSpT50

She privatized the energy providers, leaving us in a position now where most normal people cannot afford the ever mounting fuel costs despite the energy companies making millions of pounds in profit. Im talking fundemental things like Gas, Water, Electric, all privatized, and ****ed over by Thatcher. Millions of people in the uk now live in "fuel poverty"

She ****ed over school meals, no more free milk to children, and outsourced school meals to external companies meaning that within a matter of a year healthy school dinners were replaced with burgers, chips, and junk food. Something that 30 years on we are still trying to fix. No co-incidence the rise in obesity in the 90's

She oversaw 2, yes 2 recessions, including some of the worst rioting ever seen in the UK.. this, coupled with the minors strike and beanfield, 4 occasions in just ten years there was violence on our streets under her fascist regime.


When she came to power, the richest 50% of people accounted for 90% of the wealth. In just ten years, she left us with the richest 10% of people owning 90% of the wealth.

Scrapped the GLC which ****ed London over for coming on 15 years until we finally got Livingstone back.

Raised taxes through the roof, vat went up 10%, and did she put the money into the NHS, Schools, Welfare.. **** no, it went into the civil service..

The list is endless.

She destroyed this country, entire communities have still not recovered from the chaos she created, nutrition is still recovering, fuel poverty, the hillsborough scandal only just being uncovered.

The woman was a racist, homephobic, anti immigration, anti working classes, *****. Ask anyone over thirty, any of Thatchers children and you will find 1 in 50 support her. The entire country is celebrating her death.

As an Australian, seriously what would you know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-BZIWSI5UQ

She destroyed this country, and we are still recovering financially and socially from her ****ing mess.

Well said! Passionate & accurate. (I thought he was joking too).

 

[Caruut]

Well said! Passionate & accurate. (I thought he was joking too).

Sadly he isn't.

 

[Echoes]

listening to Renaud

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjfNs7vhUgo

OK one more time now. I must've listened to it 24 times; today. So good to rejoice someone's death.

Also this one in loving memory of Bobby Sand and the 10 Irish hunger strikers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybcgc8BQlQQ

Good riddance, but of course not nice for her family.

They'll inherit the retrocommissioning from the Al-Yamama Deal. Nice for them.

and she supported gun control.

I'm against gun control. That's not how you'll convince me she was good.

Like Reagan, if today's "conservatives" actually knew her beliefs and policies and not simply the distorted myth, she'd be absolutely reviled by the right.

She was progressive. Left-wing. There is no dichotomy between economic and cultural liberalism. I tried to explain that to ACF the other day but he did not understand. I guess Christopher Lasch explains that better than I possibly can.

Opening up the World to free-market is as progressive as they get.

Adam Smith was considered a left-winger in his days ...