The Lowe Down on Vaughters (aka Knight of the Ethical Objectivity round table)

[pedaling squares]

how are they attempting to blackmail. They have a bona fide case there.

you get 20 pages of details and you say 'I only have one side of the story'? This shows the comms both ways. Who is the one playing games.

We have 20 pages of details but it's not fair to say we yet have the whole story. Excerpts from the other side's emails can be made to look pretty good for the one releasing them. We don't have the entire communication so it could be that some important information was omitted that may shed a new light on the matter.

Noooo....

There may be 2 sides to a story, but there is only ever one truth.

Yes. That was exactly my point.

 

[blackcat]

to answer Bro

[/QUOTE]he UCI Cycling Regulations, Part 13, provide, so far as relevant, as follows:

‘13.1.006 For the purposes stipulated in article 13.1.002, the Team shall set in place and implement a prevention and safety programme that includes at least the programme of required tests and the risk

prevention programme set out below.’


‘13.1.007 The Team Manager shall be responsible for the organisation and implementation of these programmes. The Team doctor shall be responsible for the medical aspects.’


‘13.1.008 The Team shall not oblige or allow any cyclist to participate in cycling events if he has been judged unfit by the Team doctor or if it learns in any other way that he is unfit.’ ??? !!!
[/QUOTE]

UCI 13 is comprehensive. Methinks everyone should take a look

if it aint obvious that Slippers Slipped from Mr Cinderella Vaughters, I dont knowz what is obvious

 

[blackcat]

Vaughters, Lowe and White related.

This info may or may not be relevant.

After google translate "showed that his hematocrit was above 50%."

Not clear to me which year referring to. Maybe Hrotha could read article in spanish!

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/exciclistas/desnudan/UCI/elpepudep/20110303elpepudep_11/Tes

article date 03/03/2011

cheers

2008 low testo

2009 and 2010 high hct

 

[Race Radio]

Lot of confusing stuff

Lowes blood values were off twice and were reported to UCI....what does this mean?

JV does not return emails or phone calls of riders....maybe they should try him on Twitter, dude is always on there.

 

[blackcat]

following on manifest penalties in UCI reg 13, but seems the UCI seems to capriciously enforce sanctions in cycling much like the doping statutes. And we know Garmin is their poster child for clean living.

 

[blackcat]

Lot of confusing stuff

Lowes blood values were off twice and were reported to UCI....what does this mean?

JV does not return emails or phone calls of riders....maybe they should try him on Twitter, dude is always on there.

lol RR. Come on, does the CEO of GE do business via twitter?

 

[D-Queued]

A few comments on the article.. As a cyclist, if a doctor is suggested to you, google them.

....

Or at least translate his (R-rated) nickname.

Dave.

 

[webvan]

http://www.newcyclingpathway.com/news/blog/transperancy-international

Is it me or is that site down?

 

[BroDeal]

It is a big step to go from tests were not performed to Lowe deserves 500K because of that. A very big step.

This whole thing has the look of Hardie culling through rules and contracts to find an issue for extra leverage in a contract dispute and then getting carried away with his own BS. It might have become necessary after Pegasus collapsed. Lowe's recent years of competition, or lack thereof, make it difficult to impossible to find another team.

At some points this guy is anemic and at others he has a hematocrit above 50%. He sees a quack of Chinese medicine to help his testosterone levels. I can imagine that conversation. "Tiger pen!s! It makes you strong in all the right places." Someone with wildly swinging blood levels who cannot get it up while on the "clean" team makes me think that there is a good reasong why his performance dropped off when he was subjected to longitudinal testing.

 

[blackcat]

We don't have the entire communication so it could be that some important information was omitted that may shed a new light on the matter.

to me, there has only been one side that has been doing the redacting.

I have seen and spoken to Landis, came across as a thoroughly credible individual and a nice guy (wow, believe that).

But I dont for one instant think he was telling the whole truth. For starters, I would be 99% confident he was "supplementing" on Mercury Viatel. You don't go from clean as a whistle to doing "anything it takes". I never bought that. I wish he came out on everything, but wont hold that against him.

Re: Lowe. Dont know him, never talked to him, nor met him. But I have been told he has credibility.

Yep, there is indeed, much ignorance going around here on this forum. I dont totally absolved myself of this category neither, and I am firmly biased and supporting one camp, and highly doubt the other. Dont mind allegations lent on contradictions there.

 

[gregod]

...

But I dont for one instant think he was telling the whole truth. For starters, I would be 99% confident he was "supplementing" on Mercury Viatel. You don't go from clean as a whistle to doing "anything it takes". I never bought that. I wish he came out on everything, but wont hold that against him.

Re: Lowe. Dont know him, never talked to him, nor met him. But I have been told he has credibility.

...

A few points if I may.

1) I find your posts difficult to understand. Perhaps it is my poor grasp of English, but I can only glean that you do not like Vaughters.

2) I basically agree with you that Lowe seems to have been unfairly dismissed or at least we are not getting the whole story from Vaughters.

3) The part above in bold. Although I liked a lot of riders on the Mercury team, I think their reputation preceded them and that is why they didn't get the tour invite they expected which led to their untimely demise. If I remember correctly, a number of their riders were done for doping.

 

[webvan]

The page finally loaded completely, certainly makes JV look like crap, not paying Lowe was so petty, especially when Tuft was paid due to a "clerical error".

The only part I'm having trouble with is Lowe's January 6th email

The main reason I signed up to ride for Slipstream Sports in the beginning was their position against anti-doping, and how this could support my career in my personal quest for clean cycling. It was very disappointing when team management sent me to such a questionable doctor for unknown means of preparation, less than 18 months into my time with the team. As soon as I understood what was going on here I could not distance myself enough, for my personal benefit and that of the team. We both know the falling out I had with Whitey over this, and we both know that I have never doped.

Where did that come from?! But more importantly the bolded section means that JV was fully aware of the situation since Lowe had apparently clashed with White. Oddly enough, this clash is not documented here though...You'd think that Hardie would have played that card in the "negotiation" on the lines of "JV can't say he didn't know about Del Moral since White and Lowe clashed about it".

 

[Escarabajo]

I always considered JV to be a bit of a slick dealer but from the looks of this information he thought he didn't have to get down off of his pedestal and now it's going to cost him in more ways than if he would have just paid the man and let him fade away.

+111111111111.

I will never understand this. I have seen this in other places in life. Should have paid the 1 month salary, the $2000 bonus and be done with it.

By the way I read the whole thing and I like Brodeal's point of view. We'll see.

...
The suspicious part of me says that Lowe was using EPO without iron supplementation. This caused anemia, and his good buddy White knew just who could fix him up. Later on he hooked up with a new guy who raised his hemoglobin, hematocrit, and testosterone. I wonder how that happened. The facts as presented do not give me a lot of confidence in Lowe being clean. They don't point to Slipstream being dirty, though. For all we know, Vaughters did not renew Lowe's contract because he suspected that he was charging.

...

 

[Not Riding Enough]

...
JV does seem genuinely surprised by the revelation (which is good news) but why did he not deal with White straight away? It took 2 weeks before they sacked White.

If JV says the reason he didn't honor TL's contract was to uphold high standards (as said to NYVC) then why not call White immediately and find out if it was true or not.
If White says "yes" he bites the bullet - if he says "no" then suspend him until they 'investigate' the claims.

Even if JV only realised after the PDF with Del Moral's name, that in itself doesn't prove that White sent TLowe to him.

Shouldn't JV have at least asked White before flying around the world to sack him.

If JV knew all about it prior then it would make sense, when he knew it was going to come out.

I suppose if JV was coming to Aus anyway he may have actually asked him face to face but that doesn't seem to have been said by anyone.

 

[webvan]

Well as in the extract I bolded above ("We both know the falling out I had with Whitey over this"), it appears there was a "fight" between Lowe and White at some point, possibly around "12 June 2009" when Splitstream enacted their "involvement of non-staff medical personnel during team events" policy and that JV settled it. So yes he would have known and apparently it was agreed to keep the story quiet "I have kept my end of the deal and kept this stuff quiet and out of the public eye" from the same email.

What JV didn't know until January is that Lowe was going to use this to get paid what he was owed, then he panicked and preemted...and/or took advantage of that story to fire White who was getting on his nerves with the talk of the Australian team.

That pretty much makes sense, what is still puzzling :
- JV's reaction on January 8th "One, you never told me about this,"
- Hardie not going back to that in his "negotiations", with something like "JV knew all along and now he's crying wolf", etc...

 

[Escarabajo]

I agree with Theswordman, how can the boss of a team go without talking or answering his e-mails for 5 months? That is too strange or maybe we don't have the other side of the story.

I just read the whole thing. There apparently weren't any replies. That's a big part of it. Forget all the contract stuff. How does a team manager lose contact with a rider for months in a row, especially when the guy has made himself available multiple times in the same city, at the manager's convenience?

 

[D-Queued]

I agree with Theswordman, how can the boss of a team go without talking or answering his e-mails for 5 months? That is too strange or maybe we don't have the other side of the story.

...as for this side of the story, why would Lowe go see the nasty doctor dude the day after receiving this 'glowing' introduction:

By email dated 16 April 2009, from Mr White to Mr Lowe, Mr White, on behalf of Slipstream Sports, referred Mr Lowe to Dr Del Moral, saying, so far as relevant, as follows:


His name is Luis Garcia Moral, we called him el Gato or el puto madre...

That looks more like a 'fair warning' than an introduction.

Dave.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

41) By email dated 6 January 2011, from Mr Lowe to Mr Vaughters, Mr Lowe said, so far as relevant, as follows:

The main reason I signed up to ride for Slipstream Sports in the beginning was their position against anti-doping, and how this could support my career in my personal quest for clean cycling. It was very disappointing when team management sent me to such a questionable doctor for unknown means of preparation, less than 18 months into my time with the team. As soon as I understood what was going on here I could not distance myself enough, for my personal benefit and that of the team. We both know the falling out I had with Whitey over this, and we both know that I have never doped.


I have kept my end of the deal and kept this stuff quiet and out of the public eye. I would expect that you keep your end of the deal here and pay my salary and bonuses. I would be happy to speak with you directly, lets sort this out. Please send me your contact phone number if you wish to speak.

The first bold makes me laugh.

The other bits make me go 'hmmm'....

 

[Ferminal]

41) By email dated 6 January 2011, from Mr Lowe to Mr Vaughters, Mr Lowe said, so far as relevant, as follows:

The main reason I signed up to ride for Slipstream Sports in the beginning was their position against anti-doping, and how this could support my career in my personal quest for clean cycling. It was very disappointing when team management sent me to such a questionable doctor for unknown means of preparation, less than 18 months into my time with the team. As soon as I understood what was going on here I could not distance myself enough, for my personal benefit and that of the team. We both know the falling out I had with Whitey over this, and we both know that I have never doped.


I have kept my end of the deal and kept this stuff quiet and out of the public eye. I would expect that you keep your end of the deal here and pay my salary and bonuses. I would be happy to speak with you directly, lets sort this out. Please send me your contact phone number if you wish to speak.

The first bold makes me laugh.

The other bits make me go 'hmmm'....

"Their position against anti-doping"

Is that like the Hog or Riis' position?

 

[ElChingon]

This whole thing is really smelling bad. First the non-payment of salary for one month which would of been nothing compared to this. Second, if Trent's health was bad and the health checks were sent to both the Team (Garmin) and the UCI, neither checked it. So much for the great health passport system . Third, if they did read it (Team and UCI), they ignored it and let him race none the less (again so much for the health passport system). Lastly, the guessing at him (Trent) actually doping, if true then the team also knew according to the blood test results and lack of communication to not identify it, and the UCI still did nothing seeing these odd numbers , its as if they ignored him altogether. Makes you wonder what results they do look at? Only the key riders? Any of them?

 

[Granville57]

JV does seem genuinely surprised by the revelation (which is good news) but why did he not deal with White straight away? It took 2 weeks before they sacked White.

My understanding of this is that JV wanted to do it in person once he reached Australia, hence the time lapse.

 

[Granville57]

Uugghhhh...

This whole thing, while entertaining, becomes more embarrassing each time one side offers "their" version. Keep it up guys! This New Pathways article is about as revealing as our friend Cyclingleaks. It raises more questions than answers. Such as these:

3) The results of the blood test indicated that Mr Lowe was unfit to race at that time. The blood test result was reported to the UCI.

So what is the point of "reporting" these results to the UCI if nobody steps in to protect an "unfit" rider?

8) By email dated 16 April 2009, from Mr White to Mr Lowe, Mr White, on behalf of Slipstream Sports, referred Mr Lowe to Dr Del Moral, saying, so far as relevant, as follows:

Mr Lowe was unaware of Dr Del Moral or his professional reputation at the time that he visited him.

Go figure. I know more about this particular "doctor" than a guy that actually rode the TdF. Huh. So am I to assume one or more of the following?
A) Trent has no friends therefore he is unable to inquiry about said doctor.
B) No one in the peloton will speak with Trent, therefore he has no way of mentioning Del Moral's name to another rider, ya' know, as a reference.
C) Trent doesn't know how to use a computer.
D) Trent is illiterate with no way to ascertain any information about a "doctor" he is going to see.

14) My sports doctor here agrees with your idea also that I likely have residual fatigue hanging over me.

That strikes me as a very odd way of putting it. "My sports doctor here." Really? No names?

25) Between April 2010 and August 2010, , Mr Lowe emailed Mr Vaughters, several times, seeking to meet with him to discuss this and other matters relating to Mr Lowe’s health and future with Slipstream Sports. Mr Vaughters and Mr Lowe did not meet.

Conspicuously missing from the account is whether or not JV responded to the detailed April 19, 2009 email from Lowe. Others are mentioned specifically as being ignored but this one is left hanging.

26) I will continue my work with Rob [Grace] and whilst in Europe he has been treating many riders on our team at their own expense. His skill set is beyond that of anyone I have ever worked with before. Should you be interested to know something about his methods please let me know. I highly recommend them.

Grace is treating "many" riders on the team and yet Lowe is going to be the only one to kindly inform JV of this guy's presence and credentials? Wtf?!

41) By email dated 6 January 2011, from Mr Lowe to Mr Vaughters, Mr Lowe said, so far as relevant, as follows:
The main reason I signed up to ride for Slipstream Sports in the beginning was their position against anti-doping, and how this could support my career in my personal quest for clean cycling. It was very disappointing when team management sent me to such a questionable doctor for unknown means of preparation, less than 18 months into my time with the team. As soon as I understood what was going on here I could not distance myself enough, for my personal benefit and that of the team. We both know the falling out I had with Whitey over this, and we both know that I have never doped.

Four things:
When did Lowe determine that Del Moral was "questionable"?
"Preparation"?!?! Explain please!
What was "going on" there?!
Did JV know about the falling out between Lowe and White?

42) From Vaughters: I am disappointed you didn’t say something to me, as I would not have wanted this. Did you see Luis? Did you see him when you were on Discovery?

I find that last question particularly telling.

55) By email dated 23 January 2011, Mr Hardie advised Mr Pace, so far as relevant, as follows:

I have consulted Trent on your offer. He is not prepared to accept your offer as once he has calculated bonuses it is about $15000 below what is owed to him

Below what? All the other correspondences seem to indicate that $15,000 was (from Slipstream's perspective) an unacceptable total. More confusion.

Try again, guys. Both sides.

The Clinic awaits!

 

[theswordsman]

Interesting article on this Lowe story and the Landis satire. It says that Garmin was riding Cervelos at their December team camp.

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/exciclistas/desnudan/UCI/elpepudep/20110303elpepudep_11/Tes

 

[Benotti69]

Interesting times ahead for JV and Garmin. Seems a simple situation of letting a rider go that got out of hand by some penny pinching.

i am curious if JV ignored a rider for 5 months. That does seem like good management to me. I would like to hear if there was communication between Lowe and others on the team. I wonder if the Hardie guy is playing it straight or showing what he wants to show because he is trying to get JV to play the game and hoping make it worse for JV. Well JV doesn't play that game.

 

[Granville57]

i am curious if JV ignored a rider for 5 months. That doesn't seem like good management to me.

[Edit in red, I'm assuming?]

This is very hard to believe on the surface. Either JV had a very good reason for avoiding Lowe, or the whole thing is b.s.

Let's face it, if anything, JV would seem to be fairly "connected" to the world around him. Between his tweets and...his time on here I would have to imagine that one of his own riders could make direct contact with him without too much trouble.

There's certainly more to this story.

Bring it, JV!