The Lowe Down on Vaughters (aka Knight of the Ethical Objectivity round table)

[auscyclefan94]

Funnily enough, I smelt a rat when the letter was posted on the forum and 'made viral'. Yes we haven't heard from JV on this but he doesn't look so squeaky clean anymore. Will be interesting to see what happens in the Victorian Supreme Court I guess.

 

[hrotha]

...as for this side of the story, why would Lowe go see the nasty doctor dude the day after receiving this 'glowing' introduction:



That looks more like a 'fair warning' than an introduction.

Dave.

Frankly the nicknames don't raise any flags for me, they just suggest White was very familiar with Del Moral.

(For non-Spanish speakers, the nicknames could be translated as "The Cat" and "****ing A")

edit: also I think it's hilarious they published Del Moral's private phone number. Anyone knows a good free SMS sending site I could use to pester him about blood transfusions?

 

[Anonymous]

At some points this guy is anemic and at others he has a hematocrit above 50%.

I have some sympathy. My blood tests in november hinted towards mild anemia, december tests, (hematocrit) 44.6%, 46.2% and 51.1%. Although as RR has pointed out, NHS blood testing machines have a larger margin of error than UCI machines.

All in all, i think this whole thing is being blown up out of all proportion. You got let go trent, get over it, move on.

 

[Benotti69]

[Edit in red, I'm assuming?]

ooppps Cheers Gran57

 

[blackcat]

Interesting article on this Lowe story and the Landis satire. It says that Garmin was riding Cervelos at their December team camp.

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/exciclistas/desnudan/UCI/elpepudep/20110303elpepudep_11/Tes

seems they now have cause to sack their entire team.

 

[BotanyBay]

Sounds like I have a better shot at getting a reply from JV than Lowe did, and I have not raced a bike in several years!

 

[BotanyBay]

In the name of transparency, it would be good to see the replies to e-mails from Trent in 2010. Very easy to be convinced when you only see one side of the story.

Now serving:

Jonathan Vaughters

(old skool 80's flashback for the image)

 

[BMXBandit]

I agree with Theswordman, how can the boss of a team go without talking or answering his e-mails for 5 months? That is too strange or maybe we don't have the other side of the story.

This also strikes me as very odd. For me it is quite simple. If I send some one an email and after a reasonable amount of time I get no answer, I can make the following reasonable assessment. Either (1) the person never received the email because I sent it to the wrong address or their computer is broken, (2) they received the email and are taking their time composing a response or (3) the do not want to respond to me.

(1) does not seem to fit in this circumstance on the basis that JV seems to be an IT junkie, twitter addict, forum poster, head of global team that necessitates excellent communication, etc... and neither does (2) on the basis that weeks / months based if the dates on the correspondence is correct and this is not reasonable.

So if the logical answer is no. (3), then I have to ask myself why? Is JV just a lazy and incompetent boss? - this does not fit, or is JV not responding for some other reason - possibly he does not want to engage and hopes the rider will go away because he will not fit into the team, or because he knows something that makes the rider not fit into the team.

The long and the short of it is this for me - this set of correspondence does not paint JV in a good light and shows poor judgement or management or both and in fact when seen with the JV statements, press releases etc.. it actually makes JV look conspiratorial.

 

[D-Queued]

This also strikes me as very odd. For me it is quite simple. If I send some one an email and after a reasonable amount of time I get no answer...

Then I copy the original, and send them another one.

Or, pick up the phone and call.

Hello?

Dave.

 

[BroDeal]

I agree with Theswordman, how can the boss of a team go without talking or answering his e-mails for 5 months? That is too strange or maybe we don't have the other side of the story.

I think there was something else going on and Lowe at the Pegasus event was the final straw. It could be a situation where JV just did not want to deal with the guy anymore. Lowe's e-mails start out as, "Hey, I'm ready to race now. Give me a new contract." JV may have already decided that there was no way in hell he would extend another contract to Lowe. Then the final kick in the nads comes when Lowe was photographed at the Pegasus get-together.

Hardie's side of the story attempts to side step the Pegaus issue by saying that none of the authorized pictures showed Lowe with unathorized kit or equipment. He seems to think that the Cyclingnews' pics do not matter because they were not official pics. This is a dubious position to take.

It is also interesting how much Hardie plays up the Dr. Moral issue when it has no bearing on Lowe's predicament. If Lowe is taken at his word and has nothing to do with doping then it does not really matter if White sent him to Dr. Moral, Dr. Ferrari, or Dr. Mengele. It is clear that the only reason they are raising the issue is to attempt to embarrass Slipstream. The person who really comes out looking bad in this is White. Unless Lowe admits that he was doping then I do not see how this issue can be made into anything more than a diversion.

It is also seems clear that the threat to go public was done to force Slipstream to hand over a sum of money far beyond what Lowe was owed in salary and bonuses. That they would threaten to expose something so far removed from the ways they allege Lowe was damaged by Slipstream shows their intentions. That they would have to rely something as insubstantial as a DS referring Lowe to Dr. Moral displays the weakness of their position.

 

[Nearly]

I am puzzled by a lot of this but one fascinating aspect is Hardie's role. What is an anti-doping crusading academic lawyer doing getting into the trenches of a minor contract of employment dispute? And why would Lowe turn to him?

Lowe's email of 6 January begins:- "The main reason I signed up to ride for Slipstream Sports in the beginning was their position against anti-doping, and how this could support my career in my personal quest for clean cycling. It was very disappointing when team management sent me to such a questionable doctor for unknown means of preparation, less than 18 months into my time with the team. As soon as I understood what was going on here I could not distance myself enough, for my personal benefit and that of the team.... "

I may be selling Lowe short but I cannot imagine a young aspiring cyclist's motivation would go much beyond getting a ride with a competitive and reputable team at the top level - this "personal quest for clean cycling" et al stuff all seems a tad high and mighty (with Hardie's hand being pretty visible). Throwing out an implication that the team sent TL to be doped without his awareness knowing his high moral purpose - was a hard and low blow if ever I saw one especially as the email goes on to unequivocally implicate JV at least in terms of awareness at a much earlier time than the date of the email i.e. "...We both know the falling out I had with Whitey over this, and we both know that I have never doped" .

You would want to be able to back this sort of stuff up (especially as it is not relevant to the payment dispute nor the less than obvious health based claims as outlined in the statement) but I am not sure the statement actually does that at all - there must be more to it than that? If not, small wonder JV cries "blackmail".

If exaggerated, but aimed at getting concessions out of JV, it may not have been the best tactic but if it was influenced by Hardie's personal agendas then TL was poorly advised indeed.

On the other hand if JV did know about Del Moral some time back then the public statements, White sacking etc are all cynical damage control which places JV in a poor light and raise all sorts of questions.

Also puzzled at the timing of this - in TL's best interests it should have come out at the same time or shortly after the JV announcement or not at all. If it reflects the most recent filing in court then it seems we are in for a game of tennis.

 

[Nearly]

I think there was something else going on and Lowe at the Pegasus event was the final straw. .......[snip] ...... That they would have to rely something as insubstantial as a DS referring Lowe to Dr. Moral displays the weakness of their position.

I posted before reading this but this is an excellent analysis.

 

[BroDeal]

Also puzzled at the timing of this - in TL's best interests it should have come out at the same time or shortly after the JV announcement or not at all. If it reflects the most recent filing in court then it seems we are in for a game of tennis.

That alone shows that Lowe has been poorly served by Hardie. It took a month to come out with a rather weak version of Lowe's side of the story. After Slipstream made its statement, Hardie should have pulled an all nighter to formulate response. Instead he released limp wristed statement about the facts presented by Slipstream being innaccurate and waited a month while Lowe was the subject of gossip and innuendo.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I think there was something else going on and Lowe at the Pegasus event was the final straw. It could be a situation where JV just did not want to deal with the guy anymore. Lowe's e-mails start out as, "Hey, I'm ready to race now. Give me a new contract." JV may have already decided that there was no way in hell he would extend another contract to Lowe. Then the final kick in the nads comes when Lowe was photographed at the Pegasus get-together.

Hardie's side of the story attempts to side step the Pegaus issue by saying that none of the authorized pictures showed Lowe with unathorized kit or equipment. He seems to think that the Cyclingnews' pics do not matter because they were not official pics. This is a dubious position to take.

It is also interesting how much Hardie plays up the Dr. Moral issue when it has no bearing on Lowe's predicament. If Lowe is taken at his word and has nothing to do with doping then it does not really matter if White sent him to Dr. Moral, Dr. Ferrari, or Dr. Mengele. It is clear that the only reason they are raising the issue is to attempt to embarrass Slipstream. The person who really comes out looking bad in this is White. Unless Lowe admits that he was doping then I do not see how this issue can be made into anything more than a diversion.

It is also seems clear that the threat to go public was done to force Slipstream to hand over a sum of money far beyond what Lowe was owed in salary and bonuses. That they would threaten to expose something so far removed from the ways they allege Lowe was damaged by Slipstream shows their intentions. That they would have to rely something as insubstantial as a DS referring Lowe to Dr. Moral displays the weakness of their position.

By bolded portions:

1. I don't read it that way.

2. Not really, especially now that we learn that the continuing team riders were on Cervelo's before the Felt contract was up, and that JV had sent Felt's to Contabuterol. There is a material disparity of treatment that shows JV's pattern of treating some one way, and others another.

3. I think it is being emphasized because the issues at hand, White sending a team rider to an unauthorized doctor (and one KNOWN to be a doping doctor), and the inclusion of Lowe's name. Did JV truly need to mention the name of Lowe? I see this as the basis for the damage claim, as Lowe is now a tainted rider who was central to the DS pushing to visit Moral.

4. To my eyes, it goes much further than that. It shows that JV/Steffen either had:
a. full awareness of the visits, to which they simply swept it under the rug and away from prying eyes.

or

b. were negligent in their awareness, indicating that the "management" has not been managing the team in a full good faith effort to protect their employee from being put in a position of compromise.

I think the approach and handling of this mess by JV has him looking like a petty and vindictive person. It is Steffen's and his own lack of oversight and involvement in doing the boring, administrative, though very important and necessary, parts of their jobs now has them looking negligent (at best) or complicit (at worst) in the handling of Lowe.

I have lost chunk after chunk of respect for the work that JV is doing. This imbroglio has only confirmed my ongoing suspicions that he is a duplicitous charlatan who asks much from those all around him all while he skips from race to race, not dotting the I's or crossing the T's in his own work.

 

[BroDeal]

I think the approach and handling of this mess by JV has him looking like a petty and vindictive person. It is Steffen's and his own lack of oversight and involvement in doing the boring, administrative, though very important and necessary, parts of their jobs now has them looking negligent (at best) or complicit (at worst) in the handling of Lowe.

Complicit in what? Lowe claims that he has never doped. He has not even taken the half step and said that Moral offered him dope. The only way he was damaged by this is public knowledge of him seeing Dr. Moral, but that is something he himself was threatening to reveal to the press. He and Hardie forced Slipstream to act.

EDIT: Hardie and Lowe have not shown that the visit to Moral was anything other than what Slipsteam says it was, testing for a routine UCI health check. Not only have they not shown that, they have not even alleged it. It really looks like they have been scrambling to find anything they can, no matter how weak, to embarrass Slipstream. They should have just stuck with JV is a douche because he cheated Lowe out of a month's salary.

 

[blackcat]

By bolded portions:

1. I don't read it that way.

2. Not really, especially now that we learn that the continuing team riders were on Cervelo's before the Felt contract was up, and that JV had sent Felt's to Contabuterol. There is a material disparity of treatment that shows JV's pattern of treating some one way, and others another.

3. I think it is being emphasized because the issues at hand, White sending a team rider to an unauthorized doctor (and one KNOWN to be a doping doctor), and the inclusion of Lowe's name. Did JV truly need to mention the name of Lowe? I see this as the basis for the damage claim, as Lowe is now a tainted rider who was central to the DS pushing to visit Moral.

4. To my eyes, it goes much further than that. It shows that JV/Steffen either had:
a. full awareness of the visits, to which they simply swept it under the rug and away from prying eyes.

or

b. were negligent in their awareness, indicating that the "management" has not been managing the team in a full good faith effort to protect their employee from being put in a position of compromise.

I think the approach and handling of this mess by JV has him looking like a petty and vindictive person. It is Steffen's and his own lack of oversight and involvement in doing the boring, administrative, though very important and necessary, parts of their jobs now has them looking negligent (at best) or complicit (at worst) in the handling of Lowe.

I have lost chunk after chunk of respect for the work that JV is doing. This imbroglio has only confirmed my ongoing suspicions that he is a duplicitous charlatan who asks much from those all around him all while he skips from race to race, not dotting the I's or crossing the T's in his own work.

very good analysis Colm. I tend to be more polemic, rambunctious and bellicose, but this is spot on for the sober and rational ie: not me.

JV comes across as looking like a fraud.

 

[blackcat]

Then I copy the original, and send them another one.

Or, pick up the phone and call.

Hello?

Dave.

did not Loew say he was not getting an answer. Numerous layperson folk on here, have got answers from JV. Why when TL's number shows up on the phone, no response. Moral of the story is, use a public payphone or a mate's mobile, so it is not caller ID'ed to u Trent. But he was not to know, JV was so "generous" in his time to no name folk like use, the plebes of the tribe.

 

[D-Queued]

did not Loew say he was not getting an answer. Numerous layperson folk on here, have got answers from JV. Why when TL's number shows up on the phone, no response. Moral of the story is, use a public payphone or a mate's mobile, so it is not caller ID'ed to u Trent. But he was not to know, JV was so "generous" in his time to no name folk like use, the plebes of the tribe.

Well, if he tried and tried, and the boss didn't answer that is an answer.

About where he stood, and answers something else about the team management.

Though at this point we only have one hand clapping.

Dave.

 

[Kodiak]

JV's got a habit of ignoring people by his own account. He even states it in his last blog here on CN. lack of a spine imo. if he had he'd have come clean on his USPS time instead of that "it's the past" and I'm the future speil he plays. He's no different than any of the known cheats. Just better at trying to sell himself as otherwise.

 

[blackcat]

Well, if he tried and tried, and the boss didn't answer that is an answer.

About where he stood, and answers something else about the team management.

Though at this point we only have one hand clapping.

Dave.

yeah, its instructive D-q.

But, tell me a guy wont have a degree ofcognitive dissonance thinking he has a career, potentially, I write Poh-tent-shally, the correct team, for all it highfalutin rhetoric. Cant blame a kid for holding out to some utopian concept and career.

 

[blackcat]

JV's got a habit of ignoring people by his own account. He even states it in his last blog here on CN. lack of a spine imo. if he had he'd have come clean on his USPS time instead of that "it's the past" and I'm the future speil he plays. He's no different than any of the known cheats. Just better at trying to sell himself as otherwise.

it was going going, 3 times, sold to the rube in the fanboi merch, many a year ago. Sorry to say we bought it, me included. Passed its due date for the refund tho.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Complicit in what? Lowe claims that he has never doped. He has not even taken the half step and said that Moral offered him dope. The only way he was damaged by this is public knowledge of him seeing Dr. Moral, but that is something he himself was threatening to reveal to the press. He and Hardie forced Slipstream to act.

Complicit in either directing White to send TL to Lowe, or ignoring behavior that was essentially a team policy violation that warranted the firing of White.

You are ignoring the initial problem topic: withholding TL's pay, citing an internal policy violation, despite the other more serious and ongoing violations that we know now about. Start there, and then decide who forced whom's hand.

EDIT: Hardie and Lowe have not shown that the visit to Moral was anything other than what Slipsteam says it was, testing for a routine UCI health check. Not only have they not shown that, they have not even alleged it. It really looks like they have been scrambling to find anything they can, no matter how weak, to embarrass Slipstream. They should have just stuck with JV is a douche because he cheated Lowe out of a month's salary.

It does not matter how "innocent" the visits were. They were a significant violation of a (yet unrevealed) team policy that ended with White being terminated.

This is about JV acting aloof about his own management, then making a rash and ill-advised decision to not pay Lowe. Lowe clearly felt wronged, given the now numerous other things that have been overlooked with no repercussions. Lowe was put in this situation by JV's decision and his decision alone. If I am Lowe, and I get pipped for my final pay over some trite "violation" yet knowing of many other "violations" that have transpired and nothing happened to "others", I would feel singled out and would want to draw attention to the whole of the situation. Why are you irritated with Lowe? He's the one out a months pay, has no ride and now bears the mark of having been "treated" by del Moral, all under the direction, advisement or awareness of JV. It is very clearly JV who is acting like the petty, indignant wetnap.

 

[BroDeal]

Complicit in either directing White to send TL to Lowe, or ignoring behavior that was essentially a team policy violation that warranted the firing of White.

That's White's problem not Lowe's.

You are ignoring the initial problem topic: withholding TL's pay, citing an internal policy violation, despite the other more serious and ongoing violations that we know now about. Start there, and then decide who forced whom's hand.

I am not ignoring it. I am saying that Lowe's salary dispute has nothing to do with Lowe seeing Del Moral. You do not know which violation is more serious. On one hand is p!ssing off sponsors who enable the team to survive and on the other hand is going to the wrong doctor for a routine health check. The sponsor violation could easily be viewed as more serious.

Lowe/Hardie's version of events clearly shows that Slipstream offered to resolve the dispute for a figure less than $15K. All Hardie would have had to do is make an offer like $12k with the other $3K considered a fine for breaking team rules. Instead he dove into the rabbit hole, emerged in Wonderland, and came up with a figure of "not less than 500K euros." At the same time he threatened to unleash Lowe on the public. At this point he lost his cool in an f-bomb laced e-mail, which should have shown Slipstream that they were dealing with someone who was very far from a calm negotiator trying to resolve a dispute. After that Slipstream's hand was forced. They could not wait to be blindsided in the press by these clowns, Lowe(l) and Hardie]It does not matter how "innocent" the visits were. They were a significant violation of a (yet unrevealed) team policy that ended with White being terminated.[/QUOTE]

White's problem, not Lowe's.

Why are you irritated with Lowe? He's the one out a months pay, has no ride and now bears the mark of having been "treated" by del Moral, all under the direction, advisement or awareness of JV. It is very clearly JV who is acting like the petty, indignant wetnap.

Lowe does not have a contract because: 1) He spent three years sucking. 2) He hitched his wagon to a fast talking Australian conman who could not deliver on his promises. 3) He tried to jack his former team for 500K euros.

He deserves no sympathy for being tarred with seeing Dr. Moral because Lowe himself forced exposure of that.

Lastly, we do not know what brought about JV toeing the hardline with Lowe over his December salary. I already wrote that I think it is likely that there was an underlying dispute that culminated with the salary being withheld. That would also explain JV limiting his communication with Lowe. Lowe was already in a tough situation with the team. Business relations won't be good when a team pays a guy a million dollars over three years and gets nothing in return but the rider clowning around at another team's meet and greet.

 

[D-Queued]

JV's got a habit of ignoring people by his own account. He even states it in his last blog here on CN. lack of a spine imo. if he had he'd have come clean on his USPS time instead of that "it's the past" and I'm the future speil he plays. He's no different than any of the known cheats. Just better at trying to sell himself as otherwise.

Do you think Lowe was one of those evil web chatters and nasty bloggers JV blogged about?

Dave.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

That's White's problem not Lowe's.

No, they are quite intertwined. I am very surprised you are not seeing it.

I am not ignoring it. I am saying that Lowe's salary dispute has nothing to do with Lowe seeing Del Moral. You do not know which violation is more serious. On one hand is p!ssing off sponsors who enable the team to survive and on the other hand is going to the wrong doctor for a routine health check. The sponsor violation could easily be viewed as more serious.

You are looking right past it. Lowe was clearly ill. He clearly sought out JV to communicate his situation. Lowe went far to make the effort. JV ignored Lowe (from what is now known), and thought he'd teach Lowe a little lesson.

Lowe/Hardie's version of events clearly shows that Slipstream offered to resolve the dispute for a figure less than $15K. All Hardie would have had to do is make an offer like $12k with the other $3K considered a fine for breaking team rules. Instead he dove into the rabbit hole, emerged in Wonderland, and came up with a figure of "not less than 500K euros." At the same time he threatened to unleash Lowe on the public. At this point he lost his cool in an f-bomb laced e-mail, which should have shown Slipstream that they were dealing with someone who was very far from a calm negotiator trying to resolve a dispute. After that Slipstream's hand was forced. They could not wait to be blindsided in the press by these clowns, Lowe(l) and Hardie; they had to do damage control before Lowe made good on his threat. It's basic public relations 101.

I see nothing to indicate that Slipstream was ready to accept a figure like you suggest. Where is that? Hardie made it known that it was intolerable for Lowe to have been treated so badly, and considering the grossly incompetent manner in which Lowe was dragged down by the White scandal (as intertwined by JV) made a play for a career number.

White's problem, not Lowe's.

No, as soon as when JV included Lowe, it was mated. Please indicate you understand this. JV preemptively took the step, and you seem to support him. This is poor form. He wants to stand for rider rights, clean racing, ethical dealings, then we see how he really does it and you give him a pass? Weak sauce.

Lowe does not have a contract because: 1) He spent three years sucking. 2) He hitched his wagon to a fast talking Australian conman who could not deliver on his promises. 3) He tried to jack his former team for 500K euros.

He deserves no sympathy for being tarred with seeing Dr. Moral because Lowe himself forced exposure of that.

Lastly, we do not know what brought about JV toeing the hardline with Lowe over his December salary. I already wrote that I think it is likely that there was an underlying dispute that culminated with the salary being withheld. That would also explain JV limiting his communication with Lowe. Lowe was already in a tough situation with the team. Business relations won't be good when a team pays a guy a million dollars over three years and gets nothing in return but the rider clowning around at another team's meet and greet.

As to what was happening for Lowe with Pegasus, seems that is more about the team having a yet fully realized scandal in its midst, than any of Lowe's problems. He did not attempt to "jack" his former team. They asked for it. He answered. Tell me you understand this, right?

As for the reason Lowe was frozen out, seems like JV was more enamored with his new toys and playthings (Cervelo and the riders that came with) than to be a grown man and handle the management. He ignored it because it is beneath him. He is an arrogant, know it all but really nothing fake. This is the explanation for why he froze out Lowe. Lowe became expendable, had the del Moral smudge, and could be quietly shown the door. Why did JV pip him for his pay? Who knows but I can tell you that is the behavior of a petty, simple man, who thinks of himself as more important than he is. You overstate the "business relations" just a bit, eh? Nothing in return? Jv is the decision maker, or would have us believe so. Yet he claims blackmail, when there is none. He claims a contract violation, when there really is none. He gets the riders on their shiny new Cervelos, and probably already sold off the fleet of Felts over in service course, before the contract ran. Please, spare us your blind defense of Monsieur Ascot, it is beneath your level. View JV for what he is materializing to be: SSDW (Same ***, Different Wardrobe)