The Lowe Down on Vaughters (aka Knight of the Ethical Objectivity round table)

[Broken Spoke]

Tuft was paid accidently, but they are withholding some bonuses.

Yeah, it is a petty move but JV is well within his rights to do so.

Accidentally paid his wage? Jeesh, how medieval is pro cycling (from an IR perspective)?

You could argue that Lowe's complaint about being selected for a race after testing unfit to do so - a breach of Slipstream's contractual obligations as highlighted by Hardie - is also petty, but he's well within his rights to do so.

Valid positions exist on both sides, but I would say the escalation of this episode reflects much more poorly on Slipstream than it does Lowe. Sledgehammer v nut.

 

[Benotti69]

Accidentally paid his wage? Jeesh, how medieval is pro cycling (from an IR perspective)?

You could argue that Lowe's complaint about being selected for a race after testing unfit to do so - a breach of Slipstream's contractual obligations as highlighted by Hardie - is also petty, but he's well within his rights to do so.

Valid positions exist on both sides, but I would say the escalation of this episode reflects much more poorly on Slipstream than it does Lowe. Sledgehammer v nut.

i think withholding bonuses and pay at the end of a year when riders move teams is par for the course in cycling. It is sad and pathetic. But the fool riders take it as all part of the beautiful minestrone of omerta and keep supping.

Edit: why was this moved from the clinic as it has allegations of doping relating to a doping Dr???

 

[hrotha]

I think it was merged with a non-Clinic thread, with sexy results.

 

[Martin318is]

and back it goes

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

You are assuming that all contracts are the same, they are not. Contador receiving bikes has nothing to do with Lowe riding a Scott. If there was another Slipstream rider with the same clause in his contract that rode a Scott and did not get dinged you would have a point but the fact is JV treated them both the same.

You can say JV is being petty and have a good point but he has the contract to back him up. You would be surprised how many riders do not get paid their last couple of months when they change team.....even if they do not get caught riding non-sponsor equipment. Happens all the time, teams just don't pay and make the rider try to extract the cash. If you are changing teams it would be smart to read your contract and make sure you play by the rules.

Agreed. JV can be as much an avoider as he wants to be. It's not legally up to him to be available (that's up to his conscience). Who hasn't avoided multiple calls from the same person? I know my ex does, but I can't sue her for that.

I've been on the other side of the table, as well. As a rider you feel entitled - you're dedicating EVERYTHING to this gig (or you should be). That doesn't end up giving you 'outs' in terms of your contract. No matter how badly you feel that you've been dissed.

That's why it's a contract.

That being said, I'd love to see what's written between the lines in this dispute. It looks a whole lot more interesting...

 

[BroDeal]

Accidentally paid his wage? Jeesh, how medieval is pro cycling (from an IR perspective)?

You could argue that Lowe's complaint about being selected for a race after testing unfit to do so - a breach of Slipstream's contractual obligations as highlighted by Hardie - is also petty, but he's well within his rights to do so.

Valid positions exist on both sides, but I would say the escalation of this episode reflects much more poorly on Slipstream than it does Lowe. Sledgehammer v nut.

Lowe is the one with a lot to lose. If he believes that he has turned the corner and is back to where he can race at a high level then he is gambling with the last five or six years of his career. What team would want to risk hiring someone who might turn around and sue the team for dubious health claims?

Slipstream wanted to settle the salary matter for less than $15K. Hardie refused to make an offer. Slipstream should have put the ball deeper into Lowe's court by making a unilateral partial settlement. They could have stuck it Lowe and resolved most of the salary issue by writing they had decided to fine Lowe $5K for breaking team rules and then mailing him the $10K balance. Let Lowe decide whether he wants to pursue a cross-national legal dispute over $5K.

 

[BroDeal]

Agreed. JV can be as much an avoider as he wants to be. It's not legally up to him to be available (that's up to his conscience). Who hasn't avoided multiple calls from the same person? I know my ex does, but I can't sue her for that.

I've been on the other side of the table, as well. As a rider you feel entitled - you're dedicating EVERYTHING to this gig (or you should be). That doesn't end up giving you 'outs' in terms of your contract. No matter how badly you feel that you've been dissed.

There are a lot of questions about the Hardie release. He writes that Lowe's bonus was to be paid on a certain date and was not but neglects to mention whether the bonus was paid at a later date. He harps on Vaughters for not responding to communications but never says whether someone else on the team responded. The entire release is filled with stuff like this. It looks like a selective assembly of facts designed to deceive by omission of other facts.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

There are a lot of questions about the Hardie release. He writes that Lowe's bonus was to be paid on a certain date and was not but neglects to mention whether the bonus was paid at a later date. He harps on Vaughters for not responding to communications but never says whether someone else on the team responded. The entire release is filled with stuff like this. It looks like a selective assembly of facts designed to deceive by omission of other facts.

But who's omitting?

 

[BroDeal]

New article has quotes from JV responding to the Hardie "facts."

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/7...Cycling+News+&+Race+Results+|+VeloNation.com)

"Vaughters argues against suggestions that the team didn’t take care of the riders, saying that the squad did everything it could to help him get over his health issues. “Our medical team put more effort into Trent Lowe than 95% of the riders on the team. We did a lot to try to help him.” He said that Lowe gained a lot of weight and didn’t act as he should have in order to ensure he could function well as an athlete; because of this, he says, the team eventually ran out of patience. This is why communications between them broke down last summer, and Vaughters did not respond to Lowe’s emails.'

It seems that Lowe is trying to make White look as bad as possible. I assume that the pro cycling community in Australia is small, and that is where Lowe is most likely to rebuild his career. Is it wise to be stabbing White in the back so vigorously?

 

[webvan]

"He did however add that he was open to some form of talks. “We have made Trent an offer to settle his contract dispute. The reason why we couldn’t do this previously as in his initial email he basically threatened us with the knowledge that Whitey sent him to Del Moral. He said that unless we paid him, he was going to go public with that. So obviously had we paid him at that point in time, had we negotiated the contract dispute at that point in time, we would have been complicit to a cover-up. That is completely against the charter of the team and completely unethical.”

Sort of makes sense...but doesn't address the fact that Lowe says JV knew about the fallout with White and the deal to keep it quiet, something even more unethical than negotiating under pressure...

 

[BotanyBay]

I am puzzled by a lot of this but one fascinating aspect is Hardie's role. What is an anti-doping crusading academic lawyer doing getting into the trenches of a minor contract of employment dispute? And why would Lowe turn to him?

Lowe's email of 6 January begins:- "The main reason I signed up to ride for Slipstream Sports in the beginning was their position against anti-doping, and how this could support my career in my personal quest for clean cycling. It was very disappointing when team management sent me to such a questionable doctor for unknown means of preparation, less than 18 months into my time with the team. As soon as I understood what was going on here I could not distance myself enough, for my personal benefit and that of the team.... "

I may be selling Lowe short but I cannot imagine a young aspiring cyclist's motivation would go much beyond getting a ride with a competitive and reputable team at the top level - this "personal quest for clean cycling" et al stuff all seems a tad high and mighty (with Hardie's hand being pretty visible). Throwing out an implication that the team sent TL to be doped without his awareness knowing his high moral purpose - was a hard and low blow if ever I saw one especially as the email goes on to unequivocally implicate JV at least in terms of awareness at a much earlier time than the date of the email i.e. "...We both know the falling out I had with Whitey over this, and we both know that I have never doped" .

You would want to be able to back this sort of stuff up (especially as it is not relevant to the payment dispute nor the less than obvious health based claims as outlined in the statement) but I am not sure the statement actually does that at all - there must be more to it than that? If not, small wonder JV cries "blackmail".

If exaggerated, but aimed at getting concessions out of JV, it may not have been the best tactic but if it was influenced by Hardie's personal agendas then TL was poorly advised indeed.

On the other hand if JV did know about Del Moral some time back then the public statements, White sacking etc are all cynical damage control which places JV in a poor light and raise all sorts of questions.

Also puzzled at the timing of this - in TL's best interests it should have come out at the same time or shortly after the JV announcement or not at all. If it reflects the most recent filing in court then it seems we are in for a game of tennis.

I love it when I'm being played

 

[Ferminal]

What changed from December, when Lowe's pay was witheld, to January, where Slipstream were willing to pay some or all of the wages/bonuses owed to Lowe? Was their legal footing for witholding pay not as strong as they thought it was in December? Or are they just being nice and want everyone to move on?

I can't help but think that not paying Lowe in December was the catalyst for all to follow. White and Lowe might still have a job, all parties would have maintained a much stronger reputation. How poor a decision that must have been, given that they now want to go back on it and pay Lowe.

"If Trent had sent me an email back in December saying that ‘I don’t agree with the way you are saying this contract is broken, can we discuss this, can we negotiate this?’ I probably would have been open to that."

JV had (if we believe Hardie) ignored him for months previously, but after he cancels the last month of Lowe's contract he suddenly becomes receptive?

This actually did happen, looking at the timeline:

39) On or around 4 January 2011, Mr Lowe had not received his remuneration for the month of December 2010, including payment of the bonuses earned by him in 2010. By email dated 4 January 2011, from Mr Lowe to Mr Vaughters, Mr Lowe said, so far as relevant, as follows:

I am writing to inform you that I have not been paid for the month of December 2010. Furthermore owing to me is the provision of 2,000USD in bonuses earned at the Vuelta a Murcia. Can these please be paid with my final paycheck without delay?

40) By email dated 4 January 2011, from Mr Vaughters to Mr Lowe, Mr Vaughters responded, so far as relevant, as follows:

I’m sorry to inform you, but you were photographed riding non-sponsor equipment at another team’s training camp, without written permission from any representative of our team; therefore your contract has been terminated.
I don’t like ending things this way, but I feel that my softness on these topics has lead to abuses of my generosity.Sorry again and best of luck with your new projects.

Is this what JV means by "probably would have been open to that" ?

This has effectively exhausted that avenue for Lowe, so next up he has to resort to "blackmail" or legal avenues:

41) By email dated 6 January 2011, from Mr Lowe to Mr Vaughters, Mr Lowe said, so far as relevant, as follows:

The main reason I signed up to ride for Slipstream Sports in the beginning was their position against anti-doping, and how this could support my career in my personal quest for clean cycling. It was very disappointing when team management sent me to such a questionable doctor for unknown means of preparation, less than 18 months into my time with the team. As soon as I understood what was going on here I could not distance myself enough, for my personal benefit and that of the team. We both know the falling out I had with Whitey over this, and we both know that I have never doped.

I have kept my end of the deal and kept this stuff quiet and out of the public eye. I would expect that you keep your end of the deal here and pay my salary and bonuses. I would be happy to speak with you directly, lets sort this out. Please send me your contact phone number if you wish to speak.

I assume this is what Slipstream refer to as the attempted blackmailing (in the reply JV uses the term blackmail). Lowe is basically saying that he knows things which he has kept quiet for the good of the team. To me this is blackmail like the Landis e-mails posted on the TRS website in May were blackmail, maybe other see differently.

42) By email dated 8 January 2011, from Mr Vaughters to Mr Lowe, Mr Vaughters responded to the above email so far as relevant, as follows:

One, you never told me about this, and now you are using this to blackmail me, despite the fact that YOU WILLING BROKE YOUR CONTRACT.
Two, think about how ethical you are being here. This is 18 months ago, and you never said a word to me. Now that you find that you broke your contract, you dig this up. I am disappointed you didn’t say something to me, as I would not have wanted this. Did you see Luis? Did you see him when you were on Discovery.

You went to this Doctor. Did he recommend EPO, or did he just do a blood test, because we needed one done to try and figure out what was wrong with you?

Let me know what exactly happened, and I will deal with the situation from there.

It seems like all this was news to JV at this point in time, judging by his reaction it seems he had no idea. JV posted here after White was sacked that Lowe wasn't saying anything and they couldn't find out the full details of the situation. JV left Lowe asking questions about whether there were doping activities when he went to Del Moral, so I assume these are the missing details Lowe needed to clarify.

I guess JV connected the dots on White and had to get rid of him. Lowe talks about it (the visit) in the blackmail e-mail like it is common knowledge in the team, yet JV didn't know. It seems like White was undermining the management of the team and regardless of whether or not he is directly responsible for getting riders doped, sacking him was the only option. Added to that he was going to a major rival at the end of the season anyway and it's a good decision. In any case, in my opinion, the bigger evil from The Clinic perspective is White, not Lowe or JV or Hardie.

 

[webvan]

TL : We both know the falling out I had with Whitey over this, and we both know that I have never doped.

So did White tell Lowe he had discussed their fallout (presumably after the Slipstream policies were established in June 2009) with JV but in fact hadn't? Something still doesn't jive here.

 

[BroDeal]

I assume this is what Slipstream refer to as the attempted blackmailing (in the reply JV uses the term blackmail). Lowe is basically saying that he knows things which he has kept quiet for the good of the team. To me this is blackmail like the Landis e-mails posted on the TRS website in May were blackmail, maybe other see differently.

I did not see anything in the Landis e-mails that amounted to blackmail or even close to it. Most of the e-mails were from Dr. Kay, and the most those did was say that it would be good for Landis if he was hired by RS and allowed to get out of the sport with one big win. The Lowe and Hardie e-mails explicitly link getting paid with keeping quiet.

Everything changed after Lowe introduced the unrelated Del Moral issue. That now looks like a strategic blunder. JV refused to settle for the full salary amount because it would look like he was paying for Lowe's silence. The issue ended up doing the opposite of what Hardie intended.

 

[Escarabajo]

I did not see anything in the Landis e-mails that amounted to blackmail or even close to it. Most of the e-mails were from Dr. Kay, and the most those did was say that it would be good for Landis if he was hired by RS and allowed to get out of the sport with one big win. The Lowe and Hardie e-mails explicitly link getting paid with keeping quiet.

Everything changed after Lowe introduced the unrelated Del Moral issue. That now looks like a strategic blunder. JV refused to settle for the full salary amount because it would look like he was paying for Lowe's silence. The issue ended up doing the opposite of what Hardie intended.

Landis e-mail can ve viewed somewhat as blackmail too, Bro.

 

[Anonymous]

The one thing I take from this is that New Pathways lose a lot of credibility as a anti doping (whatever they are) website, as they now seem to be acting as publicists for an invidual rider which I dont think is their remit.

New cycling pathway are meant to be about promoting clean sport, tackling issues, not representing a rider in a petty squabble.

 

[Granville57]

I did not see anything in the Landis e-mails that amounted to blackmail or even close to it.

Landis e-mail can be viewed somewhat as blackmail too, Bro.

Lots of talk about this in recent threads but does anyone have those emails anymore? All the articles I saved only have links to the RS Team site and don't seem to point to the emails themselves anymore. The Dr. Brent Kay ones are still around but I can't seem to find the "Hi Johan, how are you" ones from FLandis.

Anyone still have those?

[Edit] Not to mention that many of links in the "FLandis letter, links" thread are now dead.

 

[unsheath]

I rather thought the bulk of the 500K was justified by the slander and associated damage to future employment prospects, rather than wilfully substandard medical support.

Damn right it is. If I'd been sent to a Blood Dr under team orders and then tainted in a manipulated media presser I'd be asking for a Half Mill too. Unemployable!

 

[alanshearer]

This also strikes me as very odd. For me it is quite simple. If I send some one an email and after a reasonable amount of time I get no answer, I can make the following reasonable assessment. Either (1) the person never received the email because I sent it to the wrong address or their computer is broken, (2) they received the email and are taking their time composing a response or (3) the do not want to respond to me.

There are other options. Maybe the recipient gets lots of e-mails, and your one got lost in the shuffle. Or accidentally deleted. Or maybe they received an e-mail, thought they needed more time to consider a response than they had at the moment, and then forgot to get back to it. I consider myself fairly organized, and have done all of that.

But I agree, a lack of a response is most likely because you're not high on the priority list. If I were a rider on the last year of my contract and was having a hard time getting in touch with my boss, I would consider that a prety good indication I'm not going to be resigned.

 

[BroDeal]

Damn right it is. If I'd been sent to a Blood Dr under team orders and then tainted in a manipulated media presser I'd be asking for a Half Mill too. Unemployable!

Again, Lowe forced Slipstream to release information that he had seen Dr. Moral. Lowe was telling the team that if he did not get paid then he would tell the press that he had been sent to Moral, so how can he claim damages from public knowledge of what he planned to tell the press anyway?

Moral works for a Spanish government institution. Slipstream made that clear, and they also made it clear that only standard tests had been performed on Lowe. The team did everything they could to make the visit to Moral look as innocent as possible. Meanwhile, Lowe was threatening to do the opposite and make the visit seem as suspicious as possible.

Whatever damage Lowe may have suffered from the Dr. Moral issue, an issue that is wholy unrelated to his contract dispute, was caused by himself.

 

[D-Queued]

Again, Lowe forced Slipstream to release information that he had seen Dr. Moral. Lowe was telling the team that if he did not get paid then he would tell the press that he had been sent to Moral, so how can he claim damages from public knowledge of what he planned to tell the press anyway?

Moral works for a Spanish government institution. Slipstream made that clear, and they also made it clear that only standard tests had been performed on Lowe. The team did everything they could to make the visit to Moral look as innocent as possible. Meanwhile, Lowe was threatening to do the opposite and make the visit seem as suspicious as possible.

Whatever damage Lowe may have suffered from the Dr. Moral issue, an issue that is wholy unrelated to his contract dispute, was caused by himself.

It is an interesting and slippery slope.

Dave.

 

[BroDeal]

It is an interesting and slippery slope.

It is also interesting that what I wrote can also be applied to Hardie's breach of confidence claim. Would such a claim even be recognized in American courts? These guys are like, "Pay up or we'll tell the press. OMG, you told the press before we got a chance to club you with the news. You have breached our confidence. Give us 500K." The team is supposed to wait to get blasted in the press by these clowns? Does Hardie actually practice law or is he just an academic? He has done a lot of damage to his advisee.

 

[D-Queued]

It is also interesting that what I wrote can also be applied to Hardie's breach of confidence claim. Would such a claim even be recognized in American courts? These guys are like, "Pay up or we'll tell the press. OMG, you told the press before we got a chance to club you with the news. You have breached our confidence. Give us 500K." The team is supposed to wait to get blasted in the press by these clowns? Does Hardie actually practice law or is he just an academic? He has done a lot of damage to his advisee.

I am still trying to figure out the finger-pointing.

There is dirt here.

But throwing it at each other in a big dust-up, while each claiming they are all clean, doesn't really put things into a clear focus.

A: You went to a dirty doctor. We have seen your labs. We don't think you are clean.

B: You never talk to me, and that hurt my feelings. Someone at the team told me about the dirty doctor that you guys used to use. He told me that the dirty doctor had an even dirtier nickname (nod, nod, wink, wink). I went anyways. But, I didn't inhale.

What part of 'I didn't inhale' are you confused about?

Dave.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Anyone get a feeling of commiseration from JV's side of things?

Lowe may have over-stayed his useful tenure on the team. Plagued with illness, looking to get positive feedback from the management while also not being able to perform for over a year...

I can appreciate the lack of response from JV. He's got an entire stable of riders to look after, paperwork to no end to ensure that the A and B squads are entered in the races they need to do, managing the staffing of the team, logistics of the entire team plan, etc. etc.

Lowe's (Hardie's) publication of SOME emails - you can be sure ALL emails were not published - does Lowe no favours. Sort of like an ex-girlfriend who keeps calling you to ask why you didn't like her, it looks like a bit of whining.

Admitedly, the use of del Moral is pretty much ***. I don't care if White was in with him, if it was easier to use him vs. other doctors, if he was the closest doctor, etc. Upon reflection, it seems that he was cycling-specific doc with the appropriate equipment to do some testing (VO2, etc.).

Since Hardie (and what seems to be his penchant for playing it big) has not brought up any allegations regarding doping (which del Moral's famous for) in regards to Lowe, I'm of the mind that del Moral wasn't employed in this fashion.

Lowe went there for testing, Lowe has not performed to expectations, Lowe got tagged for infractions and got nailed out of spite. He couldn't do what he got contracted to do, felt the cold shoulder, and shopped another team.

The only sticky bit is JV being a d*ck and holding onto Lowe's retro pay.

 

[BroDeal]

Since Hardie (and what seems to be his penchant for playing it big) has not brought up any allegations regarding doping (which del Moral's famous for) in regards to Lowe, I'm of the mind that del Moral wasn't employed in this fashion.

That is a point I made above. At no time has Lowe alleged that he received anything other than ordinary testing from Moral. This is not, "I didn't inhale." It is, "The joint was actually regular tobacco." After Fuentes was busted, Moral may have decided that the legal landscape in Spain had changed and it was a good time to go legit.