The most hyped rider in the off season only to not perform for season 2012 is ?

[Walkman]

obviously he thinks he's been done wrong. how hard is it to understand?

Yeah, well that would make him an idiot.

He got what's coming to him.

What wrong has he been done? Does this guy ever think of what wrongs he has done to people riding clean? Dirt bag.

Everybody deserves a second chance, but being angry because you did something wrong is totally incomprehensible and actually disgusting.

Seeing that comment from a guy nicking El Pistolero is almost too much. So it's ok for rider that you like to be heavily clinical but not the other? Or are you living under the delusion that AC is clean?

 

[El Pistolero]

Yeah, well that would make him an idiot.



Seeing that comment from a guy nicking El Pistolero is almost too much. So it's ok for rider that you like to be heavily clinical but not the other? Or are you living under the delusion that AC is clean?

Might sound strange to you, but if Contador got banned then he got what's coming to him. I'd still be a fan, but rules are rules.

Though the case of Valverde isn't the same as Contador's case. I'd rather test positive for a minute amount of clenbuterol then have my DNA found in blood bags of an infamous doping doctor.

In Valverde's case there's no doubt that it was for blood doping. In Contador's case it's a lot more complicated hence he's still awaiting for a verdict. People shouldn't be banned just because I assume they dope.

 

[Walkman]

Might sound strange to you, but if Contador got banned then he got what's coming to him. I'd still be a fan, but rules are rules.

Though the case of Valverde isn't the same as Contador's case. I'd rather test positive for a minute amount of clenbuterol then have my DNA found in blood bags of an infamous doping doctor.

In Valverde's case there's no doubt that it was for blood doping. In Contador's case it's a lot more complicated hence he's still awaiting for a verdict. People shouldn't be banned just because I assume they dope.

But AC was heavily linked to OP but because of whatever reason (like being spanish) got away with it unlike Basso and Ullrich because the spanish authorities swept the investigation under the carpet, doesn't that bother you?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Why is he angry for something that's his fault? Angry on him self?

Probably angry that god knows how many riders continued to ply their trade without anybody giving a damn, who were on those self-same lists, while he gets hounded for years and eventually banned.

Ivan Basso, Michele Scarponi and Jörg Jaksche were the only ones before Valverde to have got bans from Puerto. Ángel Vicioso is out there riding with nothing against his name. Rubén Plaza is out there riding with nothing against his name. Fränk Schleck is out there riding with nothing against his name. But they wouldn't leave Valverde alone.

He did wrong, and he should have been suspended, and eventually was. But it's easy to see why he might feel aggrieved about it too.

To continue Ryo's driving analogy, if the speed limit is 100km/h and you're doing 110km/h in a line of traffic where everybody's doing 110km/h, and you're the only one that gets pulled over and fined, you'll be pretty annoyed about it too. Doesn't mean you didn't break the law and should be stopped, but it's still pretty galling if you're the only one that has to pay for it.

 

[El Pistolero]

But AC was heavily linked to OP but because of whatever reason (like being spanish) got away with it unlike Basso and Ullrich because the spanish authorities swept the investigation under the carpet, doesn't that bother you?

No, does it bother you?

I'm no expert in that case, and we both don't know the full extent of OP, but with Valverde there was stone hard evidence. Can't say the same about Contador in OP. I want stone hard evidence before someone gets banned. Otherwise we might as well ban Gilbert because the Vansevenant case. C&C fan will be very happy with that

What bothers me the most in OP is that all the football stars got free without any mention of them.

 

[cycladianpirate]

Sorry, but, for me at least, to 'hype' somebody means to exaggerate their potential without a history of achievement to point to. Quite how names such as Gilbert, Contador and Evans could be included in a list of riders 'hyped' is beyond me.

In truth, I haven't seen any examples of 'hyping' on the, admittedly infrequent, occasions I dip into this forum - people expressing opinions, hopes and possibilities yes - but 'hyping'??? You'd be shot down in flames...

 

[Walkman]

No, does it bother you?

I'm no expert in that case, and we both don't know the full extent of OP, but with Valverde there was stone hard evidence. Can't say the same about Contador in OP.

What bothers me the most in OP is that all the football stars got free without any mention of them.

Yes, of course it does.

The guy has been winning races left and right the last couple of years without having to answer to a proper invastigation. It's true we don't know the extent to wich AC was involved but why leave it up for speculation when you could get all the answer by investigating? It's pretty obvious, even for an layman, to realise that the whole thing was covered up by the spanish authorities. It's like all of Spain is one big US Postal squad, keeping the riders backs out of harms way.

And add to that the way they handled AC clen-case. That' just insane! The prime minister gets to decide whether AC should be banned or not! No wonder all people in northern Europe thinks they are all cheat down south...

 

[Duartista]

Probably angry that god knows how many riders continued to ply their trade without anybody giving a damn, who were on those self-same lists, while he gets hounded for years and eventually banned.

Ivan Basso, Michele Scarponi and Jörg Jaksche were the only ones before Valverde to have got bans from Puerto. Ángel Vicioso is out there riding with nothing against his name. Rubén Plaza is out there riding with nothing against his name. Fränk Schleck is out there riding with nothing against his name. But they wouldn't leave Valverde alone.

He did wrong, and he should have been suspended, and eventually was. But it's easy to see why he might feel aggrieved about it too.

To continue Ryo's driving analogy, if the speed limit is 100km/h and you're doing 110km/h in a line of traffic where everybody's doing 110km/h, and you're the only one that gets pulled over and fined, you'll be pretty annoyed about it too. Doesn't mean you didn't break the law and should be stopped, but it's still pretty galling if you're the only one that has to pay for it.

It's a fair point, but not the whole story - many riders (Mancebo, Sevilla, etc) are actually in a worse position than Valverde, as despite never having been 'officially' banned, OP saw them permanently exiled from the sport's top level. Any sympathy for Valverde at being pursued when others weren't is cancelled out, for me, by the fact that he was initially protected whilst others in the same position were seemingly blacklisted.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

But AC was heavily linked to OP but because of whatever reason (like being spanish) got away with it unlike Basso and Ullrich because the spanish authorities swept the investigation under the carpet, doesn't that bother you?

uhh, no....

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Probably angry that god knows how many riders continued to ply their trade without anybody giving a damn, who were on those self-same lists, while he gets hounded for years and eventually banned.

Ivan Basso, Michele Scarponi and Jörg Jaksche were the only ones before Valverde to have got bans from Puerto. Ángel Vicioso is out there riding with nothing against his name. Rubén Plaza is out there riding with nothing against his name. Fränk Schleck is out there riding with nothing against his name. But they wouldn't leave Valverde alone.

He did wrong, and he should have been suspended, and eventually was. But it's easy to see why he might feel aggrieved about it too.

To continue Ryo's driving analogy, if the speed limit is 100km/h and you're doing 110km/h in a line of traffic where everybody's doing 110km/h, and you're the only one that gets pulled over and fined, you'll be pretty annoyed about it too. Doesn't mean you didn't break the law and should be stopped, but it's still pretty galling if you're the only one that has to pay for it.

that's so much bs about op. every rider in op has his career shut off. guys like botero(who was acquitted even by uci), sevilla, mancebo etc were all omitted from big teams and are now left riding in colombia or usa or retired. valverde was truly the only one that wasn't getting punished

 

[theyoungest]

But AC was heavily linked to OP but because of whatever reason (like being spanish) got away with it unlike Basso and Ullrich because the spanish authorities swept the investigation under the carpet, doesn't that bother you?

Supposedly someone with the initials A.C. was indeed mentioned... does the name Antonio Colom mean anything to you?

 

[Angliru]

Not random Englishman but the world.

Cav is the biggest name in our sport but he wants to do the classics. Thats great to see.

Besides, you complain all the time that Andy Schleck does nothing but the Tour.

Cavendish who has every reason to go down that road, but instead decides to compete all season round.

Oh but you have a problem with that too.

It seems to me you hate Cav, Andy, and Valverde and will find a reason to critiscise their actions, regardless of what those actions are.

I would think more people know who Contador is than Cav as a result of Contador being the rider who finally beat Armstrong in the Tour. With the media following Armstrong's every move upon his announced return to the sport, it's only natural that the rider that defeated him would gain a certain degree of international notoriety.

 

[Walkman]

Supposedly someone with the initials A.C. was indeed mentioned... does the name Antonio Colom mean anything to you?

And he was rinding for ONCE at the time...?

 

[Mambo95]

Supposedly someone with the initials A.C. was indeed mentioned... does the name Antonio Colom mean anything to you?

A.C. was definitely Contador (everyone else on that sheet of paper was a LS rider). However, the notation next to the initials said "nothing or like JJ" (in Spainish), opening the possiblity that his programme was 'nothing'

Anyway, this isn't a doping thread.

Riders that won't match the hype:

Valverde
Kittel
Guardini
Henao
Rolland

(I think they'll all do OK, but not with the brilliance that some predict)

 

[El Pistolero]

stop projecting everything as if it were yourself. you are so typical belgian. valverde thinks he's been done wrong. simple as that. if I've been fined for speeding over 60 km/h during midnight adn I get fined for 600 euros I get very mad while others migth think it's my own fault. understand?

Yes, of course I understand. I just think it's being a ******bag.

The moment it's proven for a fact that Contador took blood doping he deserves a 2 year ban. If he would be angry for that then he's a ****** as well. I'd still be a fan because I love the way he rides, but being angry on someone else because you doped is just being a little baby. Be angry on your self.

 

[El Pistolero]

Kind of funny how when talking about Contador vs the one you hate so much, you say that Contador is the legitimate winner, the podium in Paris is all that counts, its ok because everyone dopes, etc etc etc.

I remember you once justified it too me by saying " you know that Valverde dopes as well".


But when the conversation shifts to Valverde, then you suddenly are the most fervent anti doper on the forum and even try to claim that we can't use Valverdes performances from 2010 to judge his athletic ability

We both know that if it had been Andy Schleck that won that Tour and then tested for some clenbuterol you would be crying for blood and calling Contador the legitimate winner.

We both know that Andy didn't actually win that Tour.

And I welcome Valverde back, I don't have problems with his doping past. What he does not need to do is act like a Saint. And the reason why I judge his 2010 performances is because he needs to get a full 2 year ban instead of 1.5 years ban. Let him keep his results in 2010, taking them away is disgusting as well. Ban him for 2 real years and let him ride after Romandie.

 

[Angliru]

There'es no need of Ricco, Di Luca, Rebellin and all those guys to challenge Gilbert. If only the guys with potential in the current peloton would give a decent shot at the Ardennes. I mean Contador (specially this one), Sanchez, Evans, Anton,.... All of them seem to be obsessed with the Tour only, it's a shame they don't give a lot of attention to the Classics.

The 2 riders in bold have alternately ridden the Giro and the Vuelta or the Vuelta and the Tour, especially Anton, I don't see how you can accuse him of this.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's a fair point, but not the whole story - many riders (Mancebo, Sevilla, etc) are actually in a worse position than Valverde, as despite never having been 'officially' banned, OP saw them permanently exiled from the sport's top level. Any sympathy for Valverde at being pursued when others weren't is cancelled out, for me, by the fact that he was initially protected whilst others in the same position were seemingly blacklisted.

Well, yes, some are worse off than Ally Vally, but that others are better off probably still annoys him. It annoys Mancebo, Sevilla etc too, no doubt, but they're not in a position to be able to do anything about it, so their protestations are futile.

that's so much bs about op. every rider in op has his career shut off. guys like botero(who was acquitted even by uci), sevilla, mancebo etc were all omitted from big teams and are now left riding in colombia or usa or retired. valverde was truly the only one that wasn't getting punished

Fränk Schleck? Of course I can see your argument; various others had been exiled to other teams in America, Colombia or Portugal and struggling to ply their wares for anything like the salary they had before, others yet retired. But as far as Valverde can see, he's being punished while a guy like Vicioso is still riding, and that's enough to be an irritation. Vicioso's team history reads like a criminal record.

Supposedly someone with the initials A.C. was indeed mentioned... does the name Antonio Colom mean anything to you?

I think his guys' contention was that A.C. was Ángel Casero, who was already named...

We both know that Andy didn't actually win that Tour.

And I welcome Valverde back, I don't have problems with his doping past. What he does not need to do is act like a Saint. And the reason why I judge his 2010 performances is because he needs to get a full 2 year ban instead of 1.5 years ban. Let him keep his results in 2010, taking them away is disgusting as well. Ban him for 2 real years and let him ride after Romandie.

I wouldn't say he's acting like a Saint. I'm not particularly religious, but if I've understood teachings correctly, surely the action of a saint would be to forgive. Going out seeking vengeance is not the behaviour of a Saint (or David Millar, at least in his mind). It's more the behaviour of a Max Cady or a Michael Corleone, no?

 

[El Pistolero]

Well, yes, some are worse off than Ally Vally, but that others are better off probably still annoys him. It annoys Mancebo, Sevilla etc too, no doubt, but they're not in a position to be able to do anything about it, so their protestations are futile.

Fränk Schleck? Of course I can see your argument; various others had been exiled to other teams in America, Colombia or Portugal and struggling to ply their wares for anything like the salary they had before, others yet retired. But as far as Valverde can see, he's being punished while a guy like Vicioso is still riding, and that's enough to be an irritation. Vicioso's team history reads like a criminal record.

I think his guys' contention was that A.C. was Ángel Casero, who was already named...

I wouldn't say he's acting like a Saint. I'm not particularly religious, but if I've understood teachings correctly, surely the action of a saint would be to forgive. Going out seeking vengeance is not the behaviour of a Saint (or David Millar, at least in his mind). It's more the behaviour of a Max Cady or a Michael Corleone, no?

Think you need to read up on some of these Saints.

Start with Martinus van Tours and work your way up from there. Many early saints were martyrs like the people who flew planes in the WTC. You think Michael Corleone is not religious?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Think you need to read up on some of these Saints.

Start with Martinus van Tours and work your way up from there. Many early saints were martyrs like the people who flew planes in the WTC. You think Michael Corleone is not religious?

Very true, many of the saints were pretty gruesome characters (and this even after the fire and blood of the Old Testament).

But I am taken back to an old Bill Hicks routine about being pushed around by some big guys after a show in Alabama because of one of his routines about Jesus (forget which, maybe the "don't bring Kennedy up cos it was a long time ago? OK, don't bring Jesus up with me. That was a long time ago too" one?), with them being all "we're Christians, and we don't like what you're saying". The response being, "then forgive me". More than likely apocryphal because it makes a good comedy line, but this is the point... Valverde isn't coming back like some white knight, nor is he pretending to. He's coming back with the intention of going all General Sherman's March to the Sea.

 

[The Hitch]

what bothers me the most in op is that all the football stars got free without any mention of them.

+ 1000000000

 

[The Hitch]

We both know that Andy didn't actually win that Tour.

<Snip>

Ban him for 2 real years and let him ride after Romandie.

So did Spillack actually win that Romandie?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

+ 1000000000

Shhhhhhh! Barcelona have nothing to do with this. Amsterhammer has decreed that he doesn't want to hear about it, and mentioning it is pathetic.

Now shut up and enjoy them passing it between defenders for ten minutes.

 

[El Pistolero]

So did Spillack actually win that Romandie?

No, he did not. Though as long as Valverde doesn't get a full 2 years ban I'm more then happy to not see it on Valverde's palmares

 

[Altitude]

Not random Englishman but the world.

It seems to me you hate Cav, Andy, and Valverde and will find a reason to critiscise their actions, regardless of what those actions are.

He hates everyone except Contador.