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Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

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Pogacar is no.2 in both classics and GT's, and naturally has a claim of being the best rider in the peloton. But so has the other two.
Pogacar has won 5 monuments to Van der Poel’s 6+Worlds, at 5 years younger, the same total number of different monuments, and has a similar number of non monument classics wins. He is probably on track to win more total monuments in his career. Or do the monuments with real climbs not matter?
 
Pogacar is no.2 in both classics and GT's, and naturally has a claim of being the best rider in the peloton. But so has the other two.
I think there claim is quite weak as long as vinge doesn't top 10 something cobbled and mvdp doesn't top 10 a GT. Maybe one could argue vinges is a bit stronger because he can dominate the most important race in cycling.
 
How's that? At best it would open the discussion, as right now I think with Pog being top 2 in GTs, stage races and classics it's kind of closed. Pog can mingle in mvdps territory (nearly all classics), but mvdp has no business in stage races. It would be absolutely astonishing could mvdp beat pog in LBL, but it would not be big enough of an outlier to put them on euqal grounds imo.
Obviously we have different perspectives. MVDP can “mingle” in CX and MTB (and crush it) and beat Pog fair and square at the Road WC, has more Monuments and if he can beat Pog at LBL that would be an astonishing feat. Then again we value different things differently
 
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Pogacar has won 5 monuments to Van der Poel’s 6+Worlds, at 5 years younger, the same total number of different monuments, and has a similar number of non monument classics wins. He is probably on track to win more total monuments in his career. Or do the monuments with real climbs not matter?
First of all, Pogacar is not 5 years younger, but 3.
Second, Van Der Poel started to ride monuments in 2019, just as Pogacar.
Third, Van Der Poel won 3 different monuments + worlds. Pogacar didn't won worlds.
Fourth, Pogacar won 5 other classics, Van Der Poel won 6
Fifth, Van Der Poel won 22 one-day races, Pogacar 13
And sixth, I don't give a damn who's on track to do what in his career, I can only speak what they have done until now.
 
First of all, Pogacar is not 5 years younger, but 3.
Second, Van Der Poel started to ride monuments in 2019, just as Pogacar.
Third, Van Der Poel won 3 different monuments + worlds. Pogacar didn't won worlds.
Fourth, Pogacar won 5 other classics, Van Der Poel won 6
Fifth, Van Der Poel won 22 one-day races, Pogacar 13
And sixth, I don't give a damn who's on track to do what in his career, I can only speak what they have done until now.
How many one day races did they do?
 
First of all, Pogacar is not 5 years younger, but 3.
Second, Van Der Poel started to ride monuments in 2019, just as Pogacar.
Third, Van Der Poel won 3 different monuments + worlds. Pogacar didn't won worlds.
Fourth, Pogacar won 5 other classics, Van Der Poel won 6
Fifth, Van Der Poel won 22 one-day races, Pogacar 13
And sixth, I don't give a damn who's on track to do what in his career, I can only speak what they have done until now.
Allez Blanco
 
We could go on and on with this, but the fact is that Mathieu Van Der Poel has more wins, more big wins, more big classics, more podiums, more top 10's in one-day races. In fact I can't find one single parameter in which Pogacar has the edge.
Pogacar is way better in hilly classics. Dude, can you read? Pogacar is one of the best in cobbled classics too and last year worlds he was clearly affcted by the fatigue (yes, he rides GT's to win, not to prep other races).
 
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Pogacar has won 5 monuments to Van der Poel’s 6+Worlds, at 5 years younger, the same total number of different monuments, and has a similar number of non monument classics wins. He is probably on track to win more total monuments in his career. Or do the monuments with real climbs not matter?
5 years younger is no argument. Van der Poel's road career started way later. He effectively switched fully since 2019. That is the crazy part. They have a relatively same start to their pro road careers
 
5 years younger is no argument. Van der Poel's road career started way later. He effectively switched fully since 2019. That is the crazy part. They have a relatively same start to their pro road careers
Van der Poel is a part time cycling road rider.

Yeah, 5 years younger is no argument, because it also matters when a rider started at high level.

Look at Quintana and Roglic. They are 34 years.

Roglic is more young than Quintana because he started more later on a high level.

Quintana appeared very young, but when he entered the 30s he started to decline.
Roglic is still at a high level.
 
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Pogacar is way better in hilly classics. Dude, can you read? Pogacar is one of the best in cobbled classics too and last year worlds he was clearly affcted by the fatigue (yes, he rides GT's to win, not to prep other races).
Then we can declare him being the best hilly classics rider of the peloton. Is that ok?
And who rides where and what before something, I would just leave that discussion aside...
 
Arguing over whether MvDP or Pog is better is pointless. Clearly they have different talents. The argument is only about which talents are more "important" which is something only the viewer can decide for themselves. Might as well argue whether green or blue is a more important color.
The debate over who is the best can only be about who is the best in one day races. Overall it's impossible to compare who is the better rider.

There's not a best rider in the world at the moment. There's a group of 3 to 6 riders who are the best riders in the world.
 
In 5 years we will see who is the better rider overall.
But deep down even the biggest van der poel fans already know today, that pogacar is the better rider.
At one day races they are more less the same. But Pogacar is also one of the two best stage racer in the world.