Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[jmdirt]

Solid MvdP!

 

[Medvind]

For MVDP to beat Pog in Ronde he must have an absolute perfect day. Shape 100 %, no accidents, perfect positions on the climbs, spend minimal amount of energy, don't work with Pog if they get free before last Kwaremont. Everything hinges on being able to follow Pog over last Kwaremont. If he can't, Pog is gone.

 

[jmdirt]

Things I know:
-that crash certainly took something out of MvdP.
-the case back certainly took something out of MvdP.

Things I don't know:
-How much the crash took out of MvdP.
-How much the chase took out of MvdP.
-If, in the end, it was enough to make THE difference.

 

[AmRacer]

For MVDP to beat Pog in Ronde he must have an absolute perfect day. Shape 100 %, no accidents, perfect positions on the climbs, spend minimal amount of energy, don't work with Pog if they get free before last Kwaremont. Everything hinges on being able to follow Pog over last Kwaremont. If he can't, Pog is gone.

If Mathieu doesn't work with Pogi, they won't get free.

 

[Berniece]

He had a cold after the E3. And the crash today. Didn’t feel 100%. Without his efforts we didn’t have a race untill the last hills. He tried and still became 3rd. Not too bad after all.

Expect him to be fresher again in Roubaix.

Not just a cold, took antibiotics too. Explains a lot

 

[Medvind]

If Mathieu doesn't work with Pogi, they won't get free.

They get free on last Kwaremont and then MVDP works with Pog. MVDP shouldn't care that much about the others unless they attack away. Focus for MVDP should be to be as fresh as possible to give himself the best possible chance of following Pog of Kwaremont.

 

[Salvarani]

They get free on last Kwaremont and then MVDP works with Pog. MVDP shouldn't care that much about the others unless they attack away. Focus for MVDP should be to be as fresh as possible to give himself the best possible chance of following Pog of Kwaremont.

But they could both be behind other groups and riders up the road, if riding too passively and so conservatively. Only marking Pog and then doing nothing is a bad strategy.

MVDP needs a hard race too and thin out the other teams/leaders.

He wanted to ride with Pog and make it hard, because it is also his best chance to win.

 

[AmRacer]

They get free on last Kwaremont and then MVDP works with Pog. MVDP shouldn't care that much about the others unless they attack away. Focus for MVDP should be to be as fresh as possible to give himself the best possible chance of following Pog of Kwaremont.

Others will catch up and play number games. That's not good for either Mathieu nor Tadej.

 

[E_F_]

Others will catch up and play number games. That's not good for either Mathieu nor Tadej.

No it's not good for MvdP; it's great for him. That means his main rival is forced to work hard to catch them. That's probably his best shot at winning the race.

 

[Medvind]

But they could both be behind other groups and riders up the road, if riding to passively and so conservatively. Only marking Pog and then doing nothing.

MVDP needs a hard race too and thin out the other teams/leaders.

Sure, he must see to it that other strong riders aren't ahead. But my main point is that MVDP must try to be as fresh as possible before last Kwaremont, at least to give himself a fighting chance. A really laboured MVDP doesn't stand a chance against Pog on Kwaremont after 245k. That should be obvious by now.

 

[Salvarani]

No it's not good for MvdP; it's great for him. That means his main rival is forced to work hard to catch them. That's probably his best shot at winning the race.

No, it isnt. Pog would sit up and they both losing, instead of both having the chance to win.

You assume he would just pull with MVDP on the wheel? No.

Then he would look at MVDP and say, guess we both losing.

If they play games with each other is making sure neither of them wins. Working with each other, make sure either of them wins. Doesnt the last few monuments show exactly that?

 

[Salvarani]

Sure, he must see to it that other strong riders aren't ahead. But my main point is that MVDP must try to be as fresh as possible before last Kwaremont, at least to give himself a fighting chance. A really laboured MVDP doesn't stand a chance against Pog on Kwaremont after 245k. That should be obvious by now.

It is still his best chance to win. It doesnt matter if he is fresher if the race gets lost before that because he is playing a waiting game.

 

[E_F_]

Working with each, make sure either of them wins. Doesnt the last few monuments show exactly that?

Yeah. Pogacar botched MSR after the Poggio big time. He ensured the victory for MvdP.

 

[Medvind]

No, it isnt. Pog would sit up and they both losing, instead of both having the chance to win.

You assume he would just pull with MVDP on the wheel? No.

Then he would look at MVDP and say, guess we both losing.

If they play games with each other is making sure neither of them wins. Working with each, make sure either of them wins. Doesnt the last few monuments show exactly that?

Nah, MVDP should realize by now he must gamble a little bit more if he wants to win Ronde when Pog is in the race. Not being total passive of course, but riding more conservative to save energy. When Pog is in the race a superhard race benefits Pog more than MVDP, that should be obvious by now.

 

[Salvarani]

Yeah. Pogacar botched MSR after the Poggio big time. He ensured the victory for MvdP.

This time he just couldnt follow. Had he done so and it gets to another sprint between them, he likely wins.

It is best chance to win, when there is a rider that is equal or even stronger than him.

When Pog hasnt been here, MVDP is the one attacking the others.

But he still wants it to be raced exactly like how Pog wants it to be raced, since that is his best chance to win.

 

[AmRacer]

No it's not good for MvdP; it's great for him. That means his main rival is forced to work hard to catch them. That's probably his best shot at winning the race.

Pogi won't cover all attacks, Mathieu must work too. Or others coming back as happened today

 

[Salvarani]

Nah, MVDP should realize by now he must gamble a little bit more if he wants to win Ronde when Pog is in the race. Not being total passive of course, but riding more conservative to save energy. When Pog is in the race a superhard race benefits Pog more than MVDP, that should be obvious by now.

Riding it any other way doesnt benefit him. It just invites more riders and teams. He is more likely to lose that way.

 

[Mayomaniac]

He had a cold after the E3. And the crash today. Didn’t feel 100%. Without his efforts we didn’t have a race untill the last hills. He tried and still became 3rd. Not too bad after all.

Expect him to be fresher again in Roubaix.

But was he training in Spain after E3?

 

[Peyroteo94]

But was he training in Spain after E3?

I don't think so

 

[Didinho]

But was he training in Spain after E3?

No don't think he went to Spain. The day after he did a gravel ride here. And did the recon couple days ago.

 

[Medvind]

Riding it any other way doesnt benefit him. It just invites more riders and teams. He is more likely to lose that way.

So riding like he does is the solution after being beaten quite convincingly two times by Pog? I just disagree, think he must rethink strategy against Pog in Ronde. Pog is so confident in his capabilites that he will push even if MvdP rides more conservative and doesn't contribute as much.

 

[jono]

So riding like he does is the solution after being beaten quite convincingly two times by Pog? I just disagree, think he must rethink strategy against Pog in Ronde. Pog is so confident in his capabilites that he will push even if MvdP rides more conservative and doesn't contribute as much.

The course massively favors a rider as superior as Pog is on certain climbs. I don't think there is a right way for van der Poel except to be stronger. And maybe not crash.

 

[Salvarani]

So riding like he does is the solution after being beaten quite convincingly two times by Pog? I just disagree, think he must rethink strategy against Pog in Ronde. Pog is so confident in his capabilites that he will push even if MvdP rides more conservative and doesn't contribute as much.

Tough luck for MVDP if he cant match Pog. Pog wont push and do all the work. It benefits everyone else if they play games with each other.

Hard race and drop the others is still his best strategy, for both of them. Then it will always be mano a mano between them. How he has the best chance to win.

 

[Medvind]

Tough luck for MVDP if he cant match Pog.

But hard race and drop the others is still his best strategy. How he has the best chance to win.
.

Again, trying to "outstrong" Pog won't work. RVV is naturally hard, no point in making it extra hard when Pog is in the race. Use other riders more, like van Aert, Pedersen, etc. and maybe attack like Wout did to get ahead before Kwaremont, or trust you have saved enough energy to follow Pog last time up Kwaremont. Again, we just disagree.

 

[AmRacer]

Again, trying to "outstrong" Pog won't work. RVV is naturally hard, no point in making it extra hard when Pog is in the race. Use other riders more, like van Aert, Pedersen, etc. and maybe attack like Wout did to get ahead before Kwaremont, or trust you have saved enough energy to follow Pog last time up Kwaremont. Again, we just disagree.

Again, Pog will follow every attack by Mathieu. And Pog won't cover every attack by other riders, Mathieu must help too if he wants to win.