Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

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James M

James M

Jun 17, 2024
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I don’t get why it’s hard to call it like it is. MvdP tried to follow Pogacar one too many times and paid the price—he clearly got cooked, which, by the way, is no shame in doing.

He tried; there’s nothing else to it. It’s no disrespect—the guy is a beast and a true champion. But crying about the guy trying to follow and win the race, only for it to turn out that he paid for it, is unnecessary. It should be pure respect for trying—nothing else. Stop the excuses. A doesn’t need to mean B; this is why some of you get surprised in too many races where you shouldnt.
 
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Medvind

Jun 27, 2024
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For MVDP to beat Pog in Ronde he must have an absolute perfect day. Shape 100 %, no accidents, perfect positions on the climbs, spend minimal amount of energy, don't work with Pog if they get free before last Kwaremont. Everything hinges on being able to follow Pog over last Kwaremont. If he can't, Pog is gone.
 
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AmRacer

Sep 1, 2023
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Medvind said:
For MVDP to beat Pog in Ronde he must have an absolute perfect day. Shape 100 %, no accidents, perfect positions on the climbs, spend minimal amount of energy, don't work with Pog if they get free before last Kwaremont. Everything hinges on being able to follow Pog over last Kwaremont. If he can't, Pog is gone.
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If Mathieu doesn't work with Pogi, they won't get free.
 
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M

Medvind

Jun 27, 2024
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AmRacer said:
If Mathieu doesn't work with Pogi, they won't get free.
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They get free on last Kwaremont and then MVDP works with Pog. MVDP shouldn't care that much about the others unless they attack away. Focus for MVDP should be to be as fresh as possible to give himself the best possible chance of following Pog of Kwaremont.
 
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Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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Medvind said:
They get free on last Kwaremont and then MVDP works with Pog. MVDP shouldn't care that much about the others unless they attack away. Focus for MVDP should be to be as fresh as possible to give himself the best possible chance of following Pog of Kwaremont.
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But they could both be behind other groups and riders up the road, if riding too passively and so conservatively. Only marking Pog and then doing nothing is a bad strategy.

MVDP needs a hard race too and thin out the other teams/leaders.

He wanted to ride with Pog and make it hard, because it is also his best chance to win.
 
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Medvind

Jun 27, 2024
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Salvarani said:
But they could both be behind other groups and riders up the road, if riding to passively and so conservatively. Only marking Pog and then doing nothing.

MVDP needs a hard race too and thin out the other teams/leaders.
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Sure, he must see to it that other strong riders aren't ahead. But my main point is that MVDP must try to be as fresh as possible before last Kwaremont, at least to give himself a fighting chance. A really laboured MVDP doesn't stand a chance against Pog on Kwaremont after 245k. That should be obvious by now.
 
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Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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E_F_ said:
No it's not good for MvdP; it's great for him. That means his main rival is forced to work hard to catch them. That's probably his best shot at winning the race.
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No, it isnt. Pog would sit up and they both losing, instead of both having the chance to win.

You assume he would just pull with MVDP on the wheel? No.

Then he would look at MVDP and say, guess we both losing.

If they play games with each other is making sure neither of them wins. Working with each other, make sure either of them wins. Doesnt the last few monuments show exactly that?
 
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Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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Medvind said:
Sure, he must see to it that other strong riders aren't ahead. But my main point is that MVDP must try to be as fresh as possible before last Kwaremont, at least to give himself a fighting chance. A really laboured MVDP doesn't stand a chance against Pog on Kwaremont after 245k. That should be obvious by now.
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It is still his best chance to win. It doesnt matter if he is fresher if the race gets lost before that because he is playing a waiting game.
 
M

Medvind

Jun 27, 2024
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Salvarani said:
No, it isnt. Pog would sit up and they both losing, instead of both having the chance to win.

You assume he would just pull with MVDP on the wheel? No.

Then he would look at MVDP and say, guess we both losing.

If they play games with each other is making sure neither of them wins. Working with each, make sure either of them wins. Doesnt the last few monuments show exactly that?
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Nah, MVDP should realize by now he must gamble a little bit more if he wants to win Ronde when Pog is in the race. Not being total passive of course, but riding more conservative to save energy. When Pog is in the race a superhard race benefits Pog more than MVDP, that should be obvious by now.
 
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Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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E_F_ said:
Yeah. Pogacar botched MSR after the Poggio big time. He ensured the victory for MvdP.
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This time he just couldnt follow. Had he done so and it gets to another sprint between them, he likely wins.

It is best chance to win, when there is a rider that is equal or even stronger than him.

When Pog hasnt been here, MVDP is the one attacking the others.

But he still wants it to be raced exactly like how Pog wants it to be raced, since that is his best chance to win.
 
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Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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Medvind said:
Nah, MVDP should realize by now he must gamble a little bit more if he wants to win Ronde when Pog is in the race. Not being total passive of course, but riding more conservative to save energy. When Pog is in the race a superhard race benefits Pog more than MVDP, that should be obvious by now.
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Riding it any other way doesnt benefit him. It just invites more riders and teams. He is more likely to lose that way.
 
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Medvind

Jun 27, 2024
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Salvarani said:
Riding it any other way doesnt benefit him. It just invites more riders and teams. He is more likely to lose that way.
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So riding like he does is the solution after being beaten quite convincingly two times by Pog? I just disagree, think he must rethink strategy against Pog in Ronde. Pog is so confident in his capabilites that he will push even if MvdP rides more conservative and doesn't contribute as much.
 
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jono

Jan 31, 2021
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Medvind said:
So riding like he does is the solution after being beaten quite convincingly two times by Pog? I just disagree, think he must rethink strategy against Pog in Ronde. Pog is so confident in his capabilites that he will push even if MvdP rides more conservative and doesn't contribute as much.
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The course massively favors a rider as superior as Pog is on certain climbs. I don't think there is a right way for van der Poel except to be stronger. And maybe not crash.
 
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