Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

MVDP can’t complain on how today unfurled, he probably wasn’t at his peak after his effort Friday, based on how his spring has gone he should be 100% for RVV.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yeah, and he got the "race day" efforts in he needed to be top in Flanders. Also think it's good that Trek/Pedersen are this strong. As strange as it sounds that helps MVDP. Because Van Aert clearly looks set on just following/riding more defensively this year. While Trek seems more set on making the race hard, which in RVV wil suit Mathieu a lot more. Far more hills and less long flat stretches they can work him over

 

[Nick2413]

It’s hard to imagine how the race would’ve went with a few more hills today. Hoping Pedersen and others can hang on next week. They will need to create a similar dynamic to today to have any chance.

 

[Kwaremonster]

While he would have preferred to have won, with Flanders in mind this is a perfect result.

 

[DNP-Old]

Yeah, and he got the "race day" efforts in he needed to be top in Flanders. Also think it's good that Trek/Pedersen are this strong. As strange as it sounds that helps MVDP. Because Van Aert clearly looks set on just following/riding more defensively this year. While Trek seems more set on making the race hard, which in RVV wil suit Mathieu a lot more. Far more hills and less long flat stretches they can work him over

There's more to Visma than just Van Aert. We have yet to see them use Van Baarle in any way, whilst Jorgenson remains in impeccable form.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

No. His biggest competitor came 3rd last year

20th

 

[Valv.Piti]

There's more to Visma than just Van Aert. We have yet to see them use Van Baarle in any way, whilst Jorgenson remains in impeccable form.

Isn't it mainly because van Baarle has been very under par? With Laporte sick, it seems to me only Jorgensen should really scare a rider like MVDP, and Flanders just might be a perfect race for Jorgensen. But the rest of the bees might be rather mediocre. Outside of Wout ofc.

 

[repre]

At this moment of the season, and considering the previous seasons, one could establish there is one nr. 1 allrounder : Pogacar. Followed at a distance by VDP. Equal on flat and steep short hills, equal in punch. But not comparable on long climbs and GTs. Then Van Aert, Evenepoel and Roglic follow. All three are good on short climbs. Van Aert better on cobblestone climbing and cobblestone sections. Roglic and Evenepoel better on longer climbs and GT's.

Vingegaard doesn't really belong in that list. Although at the same level as Pogacar on long climbs and GTs, but completely absent on one-day races. As long as Vingegaard (already 27) does not participate in classics and monuments, we cannot judge him.

I continue to find it strange that Vingegaard does not even participate in one-day races such as the Flèche Wallonne, Liège, Amstel Gold Race or Lombardia.

Van Aert is way better all-arounder than MvP. He is also great at ITT and sprints, can handle some mountains, basically he can do good for a team at all terrains and win at many circumstances

 

[DNP-Old]

Isn't it mainly because van Baarle has been very under par? With Laporte sick, it seems to me only Jorgensen should really scare a rider like MVDP, and Flanders just might be a perfect race for Jorgensen. But the rest of the bees might be rather mediocre. Outside of Wout ofc.

He missed the split in Omloop, which is about the only action that was in his hands. Last year he crashed hard in E3 which caused him to basically miss the entire spring, and this Friday he punctured like 2 minutes before we would hit Taaienberg.

I still think he is a major card to be played, same applies to Laporte who has recovered from his bug in Sanremo.

 

[Netserk]

He was also injured in Tirreno last year.

I hope he will lie low in Dwars, only strike in Ronde.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

It’s hard to imagine how the race would’ve went with a few more hills today. Hoping Pedersen and others can hang on next week. They will need to create a similar dynamic to today to have any chance.

lets not forget in E3 Prijs Pedersen finished at nearly 3 minutes from Van der Poel. E3 is MUCH more like RVV than Gent Wevelgem is

 

[senna6541]

Nice effort for 3rd race of the season - form trending nicely for RVV, PR and perhaps beyond. Clearly a bit tired from Friday, and Trek was on point today. It was pretty clear when he didn't take the initiative on the last climb that it wasn't his day. Nice win for Peterson who is probably the most entertaining of all top guys in interviews - although he does overcook the underdog role a bit for being as good as he is.

 

[proffate]

Van Aert is way better all-arounder than MvP. He is also great at ITT and sprints, can handle some mountains, basically he can do good for a team at all terrains and win at many circumstances

I'm sure you mean take second in many circumstances.

I strongly suspect MVDP would be a better time trialist than Wout if he ever practiced it. In 2021 he was one second off Wout in the TDF and in 2022 just 8 seconds. I don't get the feeling he touches that bike basically ever outside of competition or bothers with wind tunnels.

MvDP simply chooses to spend that time on the MTB ... can't be everywhere all at once. But we see them head to head at enough cross races which are pure power competitions (given both have excellent technical abilities) to know which one has a higher one-off power output <=1 hr.

 

[LookProGoSlow]

At this moment of the season, and considering the previous seasons, one could establish there is one nr. 1 allrounder : Pogacar. Followed at a distance by VDP. Equal on flat and steep short hills, equal in punch. But not comparable on long climbs and GTs. Then Van Aert, Evenepoel and Roglic follow. All three are good on short climbs. Van Aert better on cobblestone climbing and cobblestone sections. Roglic and Evenepoel better on longer climbs and GT's.

Vingegaard doesn't really belong in that list. Although at the same level as Pogacar on long climbs and GTs, but completely absent on one-day races. As long as Vingegaard (already 27) does not participate in classics and monuments, we cannot judge him.

I continue to find it strange that Vingegaard does not even participate in one-day races such as the Flèche Wallonne, Liège, Amstel Gold Race or Lombardia.

Pogacar is the better allrounder I believe for road racing. If you throw in other cycling disciplines MvdP outshines everyone. That said in terms of punch no one comes close to MvdP. His values are through the roof as many times demonstrated on road, CX and XC races.

 

[Volderke]

I strongly suspect MVDP would be a better time trialist than Wout if he ever practiced it.

would've should've.
2021 WvA didn't start the Tour at his best, while MvdP was ripping it and wearing yellow in the TT: https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-de-france/2021/stage-5
2022 it was a short, rainy, slippery Copenhagen TT. A bit more or less risks in the corners and you can add or subtract 10 seconds.

Tour de France 2022 Stage 1 (ITT) results

Tour de France 2022 Stage 1 (ITT) from Copenhagen to Copenhagen was won by Yves Lampaert before Wout van Aert and Tadej PogaÄar. Yves Lampaert was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

if MvdP practiced positioning a bit more, I strongly suspect he's a better bunch sprinter than Wout if he ever practiced it.
if MvdP practiced altitude training a bit more, I strongly suspect he's a better climber than Wout if he ever practiced it.

etcetera.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I'm sure you mean take second in many circumstances.

I strongly suspect MVDP would be a better time trialist than Wout if he ever practiced it. In 2021 he was one second off Wout in the TDF and in 2022 just 8 seconds. I don't get the feeling he touches that bike basically ever outside of competition or bothers with wind tunnels.

MvDP simply chooses to spend that time on the MTB ... can't be everywhere all at once. But we see them head to head at enough cross races which are pure power competitions (given both have excellent technical abilities) to know which one has a higher one-off power output <=1 hr.

Not entirely true this. MVDP really tried and spent time on his TT position pre-Belgium Tour last year.

He was then very disappointed with his TT result in the Tour of Belgium, stating his power was good, but his CDA must still be *** compared to the actual specialists. And this was in a mediocre field. I think in power you are correct, but VDP is not efficient on a TT bike even with work on it.

 

[stonerider]

Not entirely true this. MVDP really tried and spent time on his TT position pre-Belgium Tour last year.

He was then very disappointed with his TT result in the Tour of Belgium, stating his power was good, but his CDA must still be *** compared to the actual specialists. And this was in a mediocre field. I think in power you are correct, but VDP is not efficient on a TT bike even with work on it.

MvdP has wide shoulders that act like parachutes on the TT bike. That's ok, I'd rather see him race CX and MTB than spend more time on the TT bike.

 

[vwpe]

If MVDP wanted he would be the best TT rider in the world without a doubt.

Wva is a terrific TT rider and MVDP is just better equiped than WVA in all aspect of TT as hes power output for 1 hour is severly superior to WVA. He chooses not to cause TT specialist is a niche which noone cares about even cancellara whop was a specialist came to realize that so its a non event so naturally he dont care at all for it but obvious would be a beast if he wanted.

 

[shadowrider]

Van Aert is way better all-arounder than MvP. He is also great at ITT and sprints, can handle some mountains, basically he can do good for a team at all terrains and win at many circumstances

Van Aert is not anymore toplevel at ITT. MvP sprints a fast as Van Aert. But VdP rarely sprints in a bunch sprint. Although VdP has already won a few bunch sprints.... and van Aert has also been beaten in direct sprint duels (and vice-versa).
Van Aert is better in longer climbs. VdP is more explosive. So, both are comparable as allrounders, even if they don't have exactly the same qualities

 

[shadowrider]

Pogacar is the better allrounder I believe for road racing. If you throw in other cycling disciplines MvdP outshines everyone. That said in terms of punch no one comes close to MvdP. His values are through the roof as many times demonstrated on road, CX and XC races.

OK, also CX and mountainbike ? Than we have to consider also Pidcock. World champion in CX and mountainbike. And a good level on road.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

If MVDP wanted he would be the best TT rider in the world without a doubt.

Wva is a terrific TT rider and MVDP is just better equiped than WVA in all aspect of TT as hes power output for 1 hour is severly superior to WVA. He chooses not to cause TT specialist is a niche which noone cares about even cancellara whop was a specialist came to realize that so its a non event so naturally he dont care at all for it but obvious would be a beast if he wanted.

That must be why WvA mopped the floor with MvdP in a straight out watt test in 2020, even while he was still recovering from his injury. And why WvA historically has been superior in mudheavy CX races. Because MvdP outputs more absolute watts.

 

[LookProGoSlow]

OK, also CX and mountainbike ? Than we have to consider also Pidcock. World champion in CX and mountainbike. And a good level on road.

Pidcock is good don't get me wrong. But it's evident now that in CX and Road he doesn't have the same level as MvdP except long climbs he will be better due to lighter weight I guess. In XC it's unclear yet. Pidcock may have a slight edge in most terrain.

 

[Barkintheeye]

That must be why WvA mopped the floor with MvdP in a straight out watt test in 2020, even while he was still recovering from his injury. And why WvA historically has been superior in mudheavy CX races. Because MvdP outputs more absolute watts.

I tend to agree with that view. My guess is that MVDP is more of an on/off rider, i.e. more fast twitch fibers, higher anaerobic capacity, better punch but with less sustainable power (FTP) and less capacity for long sprints (lower CP/ATP). All this at a super high level but in comparison to WVA these are likely to be the general strength and weaknesses. Hence why WVA typically goes better at mud courses in CX, why Wout might win a long sprint in a classic and why Wout might do better at long climbs like in LBL. When a course has that on/off character like Road WC in Glasgow or many of the CX races then it's all in the favor of Van der Poel. What maybe might have changed this year is Van der Poel's capacity for sustained efforts shown at eg E3 but also in Glasgow. It looks like he has leveled up a notch.

 

[proffate]

would've should've.
2021 WvA didn't start the Tour at his best, while MvdP was ripping it and wearing yellow in the TT: https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-de-france/2021/stage-5
2022 it was a short, rainy, slippery Copenhagen TT. A bit more or less risks in the corners and you can add or subtract 10 seconds.

Tour de France 2022 Stage 1 (ITT) results

Tour de France 2022 Stage 1 (ITT) from Copenhagen to Copenhagen was won by Yves Lampaert before Wout van Aert and Tadej PogaÄar. Yves Lampaert was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

if MvdP practiced positioning a bit more, I strongly suspect he's a better bunch sprinter than Wout if he ever practiced it.
if MvdP practiced altitude training a bit more, I strongly suspect he's a better climber than Wout if he ever practiced it.

etcetera.

wearing yellow in a TT is a technical disadvantage

And yes, I do think MVDP is better at literally everything that he puts his mind to compared to Wout. It is good for Wout that they have slightly non-overlapping interests and that MVDP can't be at 100% all the time. Only possible exceptions where Wout may have an advantage are a high speed bunch sprint, where we don't have much insight into MVDP's ceiling and Wout's greater mass (momentum) may help, and 3 week recovery, although MVDP has not seemed to prioritize daily performances so far as compared to one day targets.

 

[Volderke]

wearing yellow in a TT is a technical disadvantage

And yes, I do think MVDP is better at literally everything that he puts his mind to compared to Wout. It is good for Wout that they have slightly non-overlapping interests and that MVDP can't be at 100% all the time. Only possible exceptions where Wout may have an advantage are a high speed bunch sprint, where we don't have much insight into MVDP's ceiling and Wout's greater mass (momentum) may help, and 3 week recovery, although MVDP has not seemed to prioritize daily performances so far as compared to one day targets.

If MvdP gets on the podium of a 1-week protour GC, we'll talk further.
MvdP has an incredible set of talents and while he beats WvA 4 out of 5 in a duel, can drop him uphill but not the other way around, is an accomplished MTB rider and almost unbeatable in CX, the reality is that he hasn't proven to be a better TT rider, bunch sprinter or climber. That's all.