Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[jono]

I've been a MvdP fan since his early 'cross days, but I must admit, Wout has grown on me. I'm also disappointed that MvdP basically disappears after the classics season, only to re-emerge for Worlds.

I hope van der Poel disappears even more thoroughly from road cycling this summer and makes an honest effort at preparing for MTB worlds.

 

[Extinction]

That's only because MVDP didn't even start racing even remotely full-time on the road until he was 25 in 2020. He didn't even do his first Monument (RVV and that was the only one he did that year) until 24 (too busy dominating cyclocross and overtaking Nino on the MTB) and he was clearly the strongest guy in that race. Obviously Pogi is the better rider in the hillier classics and GC, but MVDP is the better all-around bike racer and who knows how many Monuments he would have if he started racing on the road earlier like Pogi, EVP. Based on his hit rate he would most likely have the record for most RVV's and PR's in history by

Better all-around racer? Come on dude. Let's see. GT, stage race, climbing, TT, sprint, pavé, strade bianche. How many is Mathieu better than Tadej? We are talking about World Tour road racing. It's not even close. MvDP is a great classics rider (except when it's too uphill) and stage hunter, Pogacar the best all-arounder since Hinault based on results.

 

[Berniece]

I'm not taking anything away from MVP. I just think Pogi is better in classics. We agree to disagree.

Pogi is better in one specific type of classics. Once the amount of altitude meters is big enough.

That’s why MVDP is much more impressive, and clearly the best 1 day rider.

 

[Salvarani]

Pogi is better in one specific type of classics. Once the amount of altitude meters is big enough.

That’s why MVDP is much more impressive, and clearly the best 1 day rider.

No, its neither. It is obviously Remco. Nothing beats Clasica San Remco.

MVDP and Pog has a big uphill battle to match his palmares.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogi is better in one specific type of classics. Once the amount of altitude meters is big enough.

That’s why MVDP is much more impressive, and clearly the best 1 day rider.

MVP is better than Pogacar in 2 out of 5 monuments (Flandres is about draw) and his tactic in one of those turned into sticking to Pog's wheel until the sprint. Pogacar is a huge threat in 4 out of 5 monuments for now (something you can't say about MVP), as we saw yesterday he doesn't need a lot of elevation gain to drop all rivals except MVP who himself is an ATG better suited to this race so no shame in that.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Pogacar is a huge threat in 4 out of 5 monuments for now (something you can't say about MVP), as we saw yesterday he doesn't need a lot of elevation gain to drop all rivals except MVP.

If they are both in form there are no ways Pogacar beating MVP (or Philipsen in a situation where MVP plays domestique like last year) in San Remo. Without MVP in the race Pogacar can probably win San Remo, but I think one also have to account for that MVP probably could win Liege (or the older Lombardia variant Gilbert won) if it’s races without Pogacar. Him being third in Zurich shows that he could be almost equally competitive in hilly classics if he wants to as Pogacar can be in the flatter classics.

 

[Berniece]

MVP is better than Pogacar in 2 out of 5 monuments (Flandres is about draw) and his tactic in one of those turned into sticking to Pog's wheel until the sprint. Pogacar is a huge threat in 4 out of 5 monuments for now (something you can't say about MVP), as we saw yesterday he doesn't need a lot of elevation gain to drop all rivals except MVP who himself is an ATG better suited to this race so no shame in that.

MVDP is better in 3 monuments, and they are more diverse too. He weighs at least 10kg’s more and is still able to compete

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If they are both in form there are no ways Pogacar beating MVP (or Philipsen in a situation where MVP plays domestique like last year) in San Remo. Without MVP in the race Pogacar can probably win San Remo, but I think one also have to account for that MVP probably could win Liege (or the older Lombardia variant Gilbert won) if it’s races without Pogacar. Him being third in Zurich shows that he could be almost equally competitive in hilly classics if he wants to as Pogacar can be in the flatter classics.

I never said MVP is not an impressive one-day racer: in fact he's one of the best ever. My arguments were simply against him being "much more impressive than Pogacar" in classics. I think they are very close regarding their one-day racing performances and results.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

MVDP is better in 3 monuments, and they are more diverse too. He weighs at least 10kg’s more and is still able to compete

Let's not bring weight argument here. This is why he's a PR monster and has a better sprint. It's not just a disadvantage in classics.

As for Flandres their two duels showed it's very close. It's about if MVP is able to survive Pogi's huge attacks. Once he did once didn't. We will see this year.

 

[SHAD0W93]

MVDP is better in 3 monuments, and they are more diverse too. He weighs at least 10kg’s more and is still able to compete

MVP is better in MSR and PR while being competitive in 3 monuments.
Pog is better in LBL and GDL while being competitive in 4 monuments.
They’re even in RVV but this year could show us the tiebreaker. For classics Pogacar has been competitive in more varying terrain. Now MVP should theoretically be as well but that hasn’t been his focus.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

MVP is better in MSR and PR while being competitive in 3 monuments.

3rd and 6th in Liege. I think it’s a bit unfair to say he’s not competitive there.

 

[Peyroteo94]

3rd and 6th in Liege. I think it’s a bit unfair to say he’s not competitive there.

He is just dying to stay with climbers. He is not competing for the win at all, he is just "Zubeldian" to the top 10. 3rd is better than 4th but there is not a single person here who can say MVP was closer to win LBL than Pogacar was to win 2022 RVV.

 

[Red Rick]

3rd and 6th in Liege. I think it’s a bit unfair to say he’s not competitive there.

Depends on what you mean by competitive. For some it may mean getting top 10s or top 5s, but for others it means "can realistically win it".

 

[Berniece]

Let's not bring weight argument here. This is why he's a PR monster and has a better sprint. It's not just a disadvantage in classics.

As for Flandres their two duels showed it's very close. It's about if MVP is able to survive Pogi's huge attacks. Once he did once didn't. We will see this year.

He won it 3 times already…

 

[SHAD0W93]

3rd and 6th in Liege. I think it’s a bit unfair to say he’s not competitive there.

MVP is further away from winning LBL than Pogacar is in any monument bar PR.

Group two and then three syndrome helped MVP keep contact a lot last year and 2020 was Covid. MVP needs more to go his way in order to win LBL than Pog does in MSR. Rui Costa and Roman Kreuziger have been closer to winning LBL than MVP. If he were to focus on it 100% I think he could win if Pog and Evenepoel aren’t there and the cards go in his favor.

 

[Monsi]

He won it 3 times already…

MVDP is no doubt a monster in RVV but it’s 1-1 with Pogi though. Pogi is probably the only guy right now capable of challenging MVDP for the victory there.

 

[Extinction]

Pogi is better in one specific type of classics. Once the amount of altitude meters is big enough.

That’s why MVDP is much more impressive, and clearly the best 1 day rider.

No, it's the opposite really, because Pogi can "cross-over" and win Flanders, but MVDP will never win Liege (at least if Pogi or Remco are racing) or Lombardia. While in MSR both are equally impressive in my book, even if MVDP has netted 2 wins and Pogi none. And I wasn't rooting for Pogi.

 

[Berniece]

No, it's the opposite really, because Pogi can "cross-over" and win Flanders, but MVDP will never win Liege (at least if Pogi or Remco are racing) or Lombardia. While in MSR both are equally impressive in my book, even if MVDP has netted 2 wins and Pogi none. And I wasn't rooting for Pogi.

Just like Pogi can’t win MSR or Roubaix if Mathieu is in the shape of yesterday.

 

[Barkintheeye]

MVP is better than Pogacar in 2 out of 5 monuments (Flandres is about draw) and his tactic in one of those turned into sticking to Pog's wheel until the sprint. Pogacar is a huge threat in 4 out of 5 monuments for now (something you can't say about MVP), as we saw yesterday he doesn't need a lot of elevation gain to drop all rivals except MVP who himself is an ATG better suited to this race so no shame in that.

But honestly who cares about Lombardia. Of the five monuments this is the least interesting by a wide margin. Both Strade and some of the spring classics are more entertaining and interesting.

Without any other ground than subjective opinion I hereby state that PR, MSR and RVV are the monuments to decide who’s the best and then it’s MVDP. Case closed 💐

Ps everyone knows that King Kong is stronger than Godzilla

 

[Peyroteo94]

No, it's the opposite really, because Pogi can "cross-over" and win Flanders, but MVDP will never win Liege (at least if Pogi or Remco are racing) or Lombardia. While in MSR both are equally impressive in my book, even if MVDP has netted 2 wins and Pogi none. And I wasn't rooting for Pogi.

MVP can't win LBL even without Pogi or Remco in the race.

 

[Monsi]

But honestly who cares about Lombardia. Of the five monuments this is the least interesting by a wide margin. Both Strade and some of the spring classics are more entertaining and interesting.

Without any other ground than subjective opinion I hereby state that PR, MSR and RVV are the monuments to decide who’s the best and then it’s MVDP. Case closed 💐

Ps everyone knows that King Kong is stronger than Godzilla

It doesn’t work like that. Just cause you don’t care about the other races or doesn’t find them interesting, it doesn’t mean that those races shouldn’t be considered at all.

 

[Netserk]

Ps everyone knows that King Kong is stronger than Godzilla

Wrong. Spectacularly wrong. The big ape ain't got *** on the kaiju.

 

[Arvid Falk]

Hard to say what MVDP could do in LBL if he really prepared for it. Usually he rides it after several weeks of hard cobble races. If he skipped RVV and PR and dropped 1-2 kilos I think he could win LBL if Pog and Remco aren't not competing. But we know this won't happen because MVDP himself has said that will continue to focus on the monuments he is most suited for, namely MSR, RVV and PR.

 

[No Excuses]

Chapeau goatslayer
Hoping for revenge at RVV

 

[Extinction]

Just like Pogi can’t win MSR or Roubaix if Mathieu is in the shape of yesterday.

The original premise was that Mathieu is the more "all-rounder", which is merely laughable. He's a cobbles specialist who can also win MSR. Tadej, on the other hand, wins mouments and grand tours, he is in a totally different league. Furthermore, it's not a given that Mathieu in yesterday's form will always beat Tadej. The sample is too small. In my opinion, had Tadej done TA, he would have had that little bit extra power to finish the job. Granted this is speculation, but only racing SB was not optimal preparation. Look what Ganna was able to do after TA in the legs. The fact that Pog didn't do TA or PN and won't do another stage race untile DL , means he wants to save something for the Tour because of his heavy classics campaign. Even if perhaps lacking a stage race in the legs before the said classics campaign, might not give him that added one percent that he may need now.