The Next Step--Target Letters

[ferryman]

I forget which drug he found, but he also alleged that Armstrong was still using Ferrari in 2004 and that Ferrari went to Armstrong's training camp in the Canary Islands shortly after Anderson found the drug boxes in Armstrong's medicine cabinet.

If this goes down the way it appears to be heading, I think the general public is going to be amazed by the depth and breadth of the conspiracy alleged. Will the sport come out of it better? I hope so, but human nature is what it is.

Yep, the general public know 4 things about cycling, The Tour de France, The Yellow Jersey, Lance Armstrong and cyclists take drugs. Add in Contador's likely ban and stripping of the jersey could coincide with Novi's investigation coming to a head, it's gonna be mind blowingly huge and damaging

Where is the redemption after this?

 

[Dettol]

I don't want to derail thread so I'll agree to disagree.

 

[TexPat]

The drug find by Anderson is not the biggest detail from the court papers. Anderson having to speed off in Lance's car to foil drug testers was way more interesting. Also Armstrong using enhanced cancer treatment for a friend of Anderson as a bribe to drop the complaint.*

What are you referring to?
The one friend I have with cancer got no help at all. Ironic isn't it?

 

[oldschoolnik]

For some people seeing Armstrong in court is the main event in their lives, far bigger than any grand tour. Sad really.

Sorry, some people just like justice to be done and the truth to come out. I know many would like this fraud to go on for years or that is would just get swept under the rug.

 

[thehog]

What are you referring to?
The one friend I have with cancer got no help at all. Ironic isn't it?

Armstrong spoke to your wife and mentioned that he would do a favour for a friends baby who requires treatment. The car story is sketchy as I'll have to read the papers again. But there was an instruction to take the car to give the impression that Armstrong was not home when the testers arrived.

You can fill in the rest of the details!

 

[TexPat]

Read the papers, then edit your post to make it factual.

But, I'll help you out nonetheless:
there was no assistance/no favours.

 

[tubularglue]

What are you referring to?
The one friend I have with cancer got no help at all. Ironic isn't it?

hope he/she is still around. that's all i got.

 

[GoneWithTailWind]

Go, Lance, go.

Who, in their right mind, other than a thug, would purposefully bait the authorities? It is right out of a Mario Puzo novel. Next thing you know, Novizky wakes up with a severed headset in his bed with grease flowing all over the sheets.

Dave.

Hi folks, about this Juan Pelota twitter account, out of interest how do we know it's genuine?. I searched a little and came across reference to the email address "jp@Livestrong.org" (or whatever it is) but didn't see anthing tying him to this twitter account. Thanks.

 

[Dettol]

Where is the redemption after this?

I think cycling in the US and other anglophone countries at least from a spectator\viewing audience pov will be dead for some years. I don't really see participation to those who already race dropping off maybe younger children who grew up with Lance will throw their bikes away in disgust. Who knows maybe there'll be a healthier grass roots level appreciation for the sport?

Or maybe the UCI will move their efforts to Asia and Africa?

 

[thehog]

Read the papers, then edit your post to make it factual.

But, I'll help you out nonetheless:
there was no assistance/no favours.

I know. He used the "I'll help your friend with cancer if you could let this one go" more than once.

It wasn't always forthcoming.

I'm heading to the garage to find my papers. I think they're buried underneath an old rusting Peugeot Reynolds 501 frame.

 

[Benotti69]

What are you referring to?
The one friend I have with cancer got no help at all. Ironic isn't it?

not when i have read a lot of stuff on here about the guy

hope your friend is still around and doing well.

 

[Race Radio]

Do you really think Armstrong is more sociopathic than some of his critics? There are people here that seem to genuinely believe all of his fans are paid for by a PR group called Public Strategies (who do normal PR work like help write public statements and advise on advertising campaigns). And they also think the LiveStrong charity is a "scam" that should be shut down. There does seem to be some underlying psychological problems at play here. Do you not find any of that disturbing?

Who has said that ALL of the fans are PS? Sounds like a strawman to me.

The Trek suit made public that Public Strategies, which is located in the building as Armstrong's management company CSE, was the architect of the campaign to smear LeMond. It was routine for the same talking points to appear simultaneously by first time posters on message boards and comments sections across the internet. To be fair this effort has been largely abounded as these talking points were quickly exposed as BS by knowledge writers, resulting in the opposite of the desired goal.

As for Livestrong. The criticism is usually very pointed. Ridiculous travel expenses, pimping of the charities brand for personal profit, vague mission, Programs that never move beyond a press release, constant promotion of the Armstrong brand instead of awareness, etc. etc. etc. Instead of actually addressing any of these valid points it is easier for the groupies to dismiss them as the words of obsessed haters.

 

[Race Radio]

Hi folks, about this Juan Pelota twitter account, out of interest how do we know it's genuine?. I searched a little and came across reference to the email address "jp@Livestrong.org" (or whatever it is) but didn't see anthing tying him to this twitter account. Thanks.

Oh, yeah. No connection at all

JP and Macca having dinner

 

[Bilirubin]

Who has said that ALL of the fans are PS? Sounds like a strawman to me.

You always call people 'public strategies' that disagree with you on Armstrong, and you believe a conspiracy theory that remarks by fans on message boards was in fact a PR company campaign to smear LeMond. Hence...

The Trek suit made public that Public Strategies, which is located in the building as Armstrong's management company CSE, was the architect of the campaign to smear LeMond. It was routine for the same talking points to appear simultaneously by first time posters on message boards and comments sections across the internet. To be fair this effort has been largely abounded as these talking points were quickly exposed as BS by knowledge writers, resulting in the opposite of the desired goal.

I can lay your mind to rest that this is not how a PR company operates. These were Armstrong fans saying things that you disagree with and believe are cliched talking points. It's a delusion to think these are paid interns.

As for Livestrong. The criticism is usually very pointed. Ridiculous travel expenses, pimping of the charities brand for personal profit, vague mission, Programs that never move beyond a press release, constant promotion of the Armstrong brand instead of awareness, etc. etc. etc. Instead of actually addressing any of these valid points it is easier for the groupies to dismiss them as the words of obsessed haters.

The experts in the cancer field disagree with you. It just calls into question the rest of your judgment. Put next to your delusion about Public Strategies it doesn't make you look very good.

 

[Bilirubin]

Oh, yeah. No connection at all

JP and Macca having dinner

I see you have quite a lot of pictures of Armstrong and his associates.

 

[Race Radio]

You always call people 'public strategies' that disagree with you on Armstrong, and you believe a conspiracy theory that remarks by fans on message boards was in fact a PR company campaign to smear LeMond. Hence...

I can lay your mind to rest that this is not how a PR company operates. These were Armstrong fans saying things that you disagree with and believe are cliched talking points. It's a delusion to think these are paid interns.

Not always, sometimes I call them groupies. As I wrote I think this effort has largely been abounded because it produced the opposite of the desired result.

You clearly do not know what PS is. Mark McKinnon, also on the board of Livestrong, is the Vice Chairman. He is an expert in Astroturfing

The experts in the cancer field disagree with you. It just calls into question the rest of your judgment. Put next to your delusion about Public Strategies it doesn't make you look very good.

Thanks for proving my point. Instead of actually addressing the issue you claim imaginary experts disagree. Put next to your lack of knowledge of Public Strategies it does not make you look very good. This is what the experts say about the pimping of the charities name

Two heads of charity watchdog groups that rate nonprofit organizations said the deal's apparent bundling of Armstrong's personal financial interests with those of the foundation troubled them.

"This blurs the lines between the foundation and its charitable mission, and the personal gain of its founder,'' said Ken Berger, president and executive director of Charity Navigator. "It's mixing two purposes in a way that smells of a conflict of interest. The most precious thing a charitable organization has is the public's trust, and things like this put a ***** in that.''

Daniel Borochoff, founder and president of the American Institute of Philanthropy in Chicago, said he was uncomfortable with the arrangement, especially because Armstrong remains chairman of the board of the foundation. "Nonprofits have to be concerned not only with actual conflicts of interest, but the appearance of conflicts of interest,'' Borochoff said.

 

[jimmypop]

Who, in their right mind, other than a thug, would purposefully bait the authorities? It is right out of a Mario Puzo novel. Next thing you know, Novizky wakes up with a severed headset in his bed with grease flowing all over the sheets.

Dave.

The baiting speaks to how Armstrong and his people are handling the situation.

Subjectively, it's also possible to infer that it's now all-or-nothing for Armstrong. For those who believe that Armstrong sits somewhere on a spectrum of diagnosable personality disorders, the public taunting offers evidence supporting that conclusion.

 

[CowboyTx]

You always call people 'public strategies' that disagree with you on Armstrong, and you believe a conspiracy theory that remarks by fans on message boards was in fact a PR company campaign to smear LeMond. Hence...



I can lay your mind to rest that this is not how a PR company operates. These were Armstrong fans saying things that you disagree with and believe are cliched talking points. It's a delusion to think these are paid interns.



The experts in the cancer field disagree with you. It just calls into question the rest of your judgment. Put next to your delusion about Public Strategies it doesn't make you look very good.

Hi Bilirubin can you pass my regards on to Mark Fabiani please on the good job he is doing, Thanks Cowboytx

 

[jimmypop]

It's a public relations firm. It would be hard to name a high profile celebrity that is NOT on the books of a public relations firm. It's normal practise. It doesn't stop scandals occuring or control the media, it just helps put a positive spin on what the client is doing. But the way it is painted here is as if it is more powerful than the CIA and Mossad put together. The fact that Novitzky's department has had better control over the media since before the tour doesn't seem to embarrass them from making these charges. There does seem to be a certain about of delusion.

You exaggerate the claims made here in order to diminish the actual points. It's a PR firm, yes, but one tied integrally with Armstrong. This same firm seeds discussion boards and has the same employees jumping in the comments on Armstrong articles. To be fair, other PR firms are doing this as well these days.

CIA or Mossad? Hardly. Insidious? Surely.

 

[jimmypop]

Do you really think Armstrong is more sociopathic than some of his critics? There are people here that seem to genuinely believe all of his fans are paid for by a PR group called Public Strategies (who do normal PR work like help write public statements and advise on advertising campaigns). And they also think the LiveStrong charity is a "scam" that should be shut down. There does seem to be some underlying psychological problems at play here. Do you not find any of that disturbing?

Again, you're exaggerating to minimize the original message.

Are there paid (or otherwise indirectly compensated) posters on forums? Yes. Are there blogs which have been effectively purchased? Yes.

Is LiveStrong a scam? No, but it's hardly a top-notch charity by any metric, particularly when the finances are so closely meshed with Armstrong's personal finances, and the finances of his businesses and business associates.

There's no conspiracy here. Just a group of people who rode the Armstrong gravy train for nearly a decade. It was (and still is) in their best interests to bully and otherwise mitigate criticism; most of us take issue with their methods, particularly considering the measurable personal toll on those who spoke out.

Oh, and Armstrong is a prolific sports cheat. He chose to participate in the sport at the professional level knowing full well the rules; neither he nor his fans have any justification in rationalizing his cheating with that in mind.

 

[sartain]

The NY Times has quoted sources close to the case as predicting indictments in January due to the statute of limitations running on several possible underlying felonies. However, if a conspiracy indictment is handed down, certain acts done in furtherance of the conspiracy to prevent it from being discovered can serve to toll the statute of limitations.

Possible charges that have been discussed publicly, but not by the US Attorney's office or Novitsky, include fraud in the procuring the Postal contract; money laundering; conspiracy; running a criminal enterprise in violation of RICO; insurance fraud related to the SCA Promotions contract and arbitration; perjury; suborning perjury (this would include Oakley management and Stephanie McIlvain); obstruction of justice.

I have not dealt with this particular US Attorney's office, but I can tell you from my experience in California's Northern District, prosecutors there do not like to bring an indictment unless they feel they have an incredibly strong case. By all indications, they have been meticulously building such a case as evidenced by the size of and the expense of sending the delegation that they did to Europe.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to Lance, Thom, Johan, Och and maybe Oakley management and McIlvain and others. As for we the spectators, sit back, pour a good glass of Merlot and enjoy the show. Better buy a few cases as this will be a long process unless the snakes start eating each other and work out plea bargains.

I am going to start by pouring myself a 1996 Barolo I have been saving for this very occasion, and then watch the train wreck with a 2001 Amarone.

 

[Race Radio]

I am going to start by pouring myself a 1996 Barolo I have been saving for this very occasion, and then watch the train wreck with a 2001 Amarone.

A time like this calls for a 1997 Tignanello..... a great wine, a great year, and Wonderboy's favorite.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

A time like this calls for a 1997 Tignanello..... a great wine, a great year, and Wonderboy's favorite.

Ah yes, a nice Gattinara. Do they still sell it in the warped bottle?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

He's active on this forum, and this thread, and living in New Zealand.

In a Cycling Weekly article about the meetings in Lyons, five of the American contingent were named, and one was an FBI Special Agent. So it's not just the FDA working on this for the Feds.

The AFLD had the six 1999 samples that were positive for EPO, but they also had all the samples from the 2000 & 2001 Tours. I think it's significant that they felt a need to store them past the eight year statute of limitations. This isn't a doping case per se, but having hard evidence that he cheated in more than one Tour is huge for the fraud and perjury charges, if the samples are dirty.

I'm interested to see just how involved he and Bruyneel were in terms of a doping network. But yeah, these are exciting times for people who love cycling even those like me who used to be casual Armstrong fans.

What is Anderson's handle here?

 

[Race Radio]

Ah yes, a nice Gattinara. Do they still sell it in the warped bottle?

Tignanello is actually a Sang/Cab blend from Tuscany. As far as warped bottles I have a bottle of this saved for the plea bargain.