The non-dopers

[jonny testaronny]

I hate to say it, but where a domestique finishes has no bearing on his level of dopage. I like Jens, I'm a fan of Jens, but Jens is a professional. He's been a professional, a leading one, since the time when doping of one kind or another was off the hook in the peloton. Just because he's a doper doesn't mean he's a bad guy, or less enjoyable to watch. But he is almost without doubt a doper.

Agree that Jens almost certainly juiced. Not sure that he does so now--but the team for which he races makes him at least a bit suspicious. As I wrote on another thread, his answer to a SpiegelTV reporter who asked riders before a stage in the 2006 Tour of Germany "Have you doped yet today?" was somewhat self-incriminating in its evasiveness & counter-accusations. Here's an English translation:

"What kind of bum are you? Have you cheated on your wife
today? Have you cheated your employer today? Have you run a red light? Did you drive drunk ? What kind of an idiot are you? Look at your own soul. Are you clean? Then you can judge me!"
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/35955...jens-voigt-etc

The video of that and the other riders questioned (including Zabel & Julich) was on Youtube for a short while (Haben Sie sich heute schon gedopt?), but it disappeared quickly, and I've never been able to find it again.

 

[jonny testaronny]

As much as I hate it, there's NO WAY Horner is clean now even though I believe he was before his second soiree into Europe.

Horner most likely wasn't clean then, either. According to Matt Decanio--if I recall correctly--Phil Zajicek told him that Horner kept a supply of EPO in his fridge. This was about the time Horner was tearing up the US circuit for Webcor, I think.

 

[Maxiton]

Agree that Jens almost certainly juiced. Not sure that he does so now--but the team for which he races makes him at least a bit suspicious. As I wrote on another thread, his answer to a SpiegelTV reporter who asked riders before a stage in the 2006 Tour of Germany "Have you doped yet today?" was somewhat self-incriminating in its evasiveness & counter-accusations. Here's an English translation:

"What kind of bum are you? Have you cheated on your wife
today? Have you cheated your employer today? Have you run a red light? Did you drive drunk ? What kind of an idiot are you? Look at your own soul. Are you clean? Then you can judge me!"
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/35955...jens-voigt-etc

The video of that and the other riders questioned (including Zabel & Julich) was on Youtube for a short while (Haben Sie sich heute schon gedopt?), but it disappeared quickly, and I've never been able to find it again.

Interesting. And that's an entertaining quote from Jens. (Shut up, legs!? No - Shut up, pesky journalist!) But the link you left appears to be broken . . . .

 

[luckyboy]

Jorge Jaschke talked about Voigt and epo in an article. Cant find it right now.

That year saw the Festina scandal unfold. Jaksche said that when he talked to Jens Voigt, the rider said that someone from his team suggested to bury all the stuff along the race route and pick it up after the Tour. While Voigt does not remember details of the conversation he agrees that "we talked about doping all the time back then," and thinks it's possible he joked about something like that.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2007/jorg_jaksche_jul07

I feel it wrong to talk about other cyclists. But with Jens Voigt I must make a big exception. Personally, I had actually never had a problem with Jens, I have always considered him an honest soul. But when I was at Team CSC, I know what happened there. I know what happened in the years when EPO was not detectable. And I also know the conversation I had with him during the scandal-Tour of 1998 - when he asked me "What are you doing with your stuff because we're burying ours. We (the French team GAN, editor's note) considered burying it.

http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_47878.htm

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I only believe in three riders:
Charly Mottet, Christophe Bassons and Gilles Delion.
No more, no less.

 

[TheEnoculator]

One thing that tells me Jens ain't clean: Phil and Paul and Bob endorse him greatly. Whenever these three talk a great deal about a certain rider, it makes me feel suspicious. Why don't they talk about Durbridge, Pinotti, Grabsch, Moncoutié?

Other cyclists that these three clowns talk a lot about:

Cancellara, LL Sanchez, Horner, Leipheimer, Hincapie, to name a few.

 

[Benotti69]

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2007/jorg_jaksche_jul07


http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_47878.htm

Well played sir.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Nicolas Aubier

He is quoted in one of a series of L'Equipe articles on the problems of doping in racing:

"One of the biggest disappointments I will take from my carer is the wait-and-see attitude that has been adopted by officials. Why aren't they doing something about it. Why haven't they made every possible effort to eliminate this cancer? It's as if the riders are entirely disposable; wheel them in for the show and then discard them. It's time to put a stop to the massacre."

To which Verbruggen responded (to the various L'Equipe articles)

"I will probably disappoint you, but I was not at all impressed, not at all, with the accounts given by riders like Delion and Obree. What we are dealing with here is guys at the end of their career who can no longer hang on. I found it cowardly, there is no other word."

and if Verbruggen dislikes you then you are probably doing something right. I would add Obree to that list even though his career was cut short on the road.

From an excellent article.

Also, Aubier apparently from an interview from Rough Ride (Don't have a copy so cannot confirm).

"I don't think it's possible to make the top 100 on the ranking list without taking EPO, growth hormone or some of the other stuff... well, no, that's not true, Chris Boardman is there. During my first two years, I roomed with him a lot and never saw him take an injection. I still don't know how he managed to be competitive. He had his own doctor in Liverpool and just stuck to what he knew - which is probably one of the reasons he has never been able to attain his ambitions in the Tour de France."

so perhaps consider adding Boardman.

 

[Cerberus]

One thing that tells me Jens ain't clean: Phil and Paul and Bob endorse him greatly. Whenever these three talk a great deal about a certain rider, it makes me feel suspicious. Why don't they talk about Durbridge, Pinotti, Grabsch, Moncoutié?

Other cyclists that these three clowns talk a lot about:

Cancellara, LL Sanchez, Horner, Leipheimer, Hincapie, to name a few.

In fairness Cancellara scored a 0 on the UCI suspicion list. I don't really believe he's clean despite of that, but it's a point to consider.

 

[spalco]

Agree that Jens almost certainly juiced. Not sure that he does so now--but the team for which he races makes him at least a bit suspicious. As I wrote on another thread, his answer to a SpiegelTV reporter who asked riders before a stage in the 2006 Tour of Germany "Have you doped yet today?" was somewhat self-incriminating in its evasiveness & counter-accusations. Here's an English translation:

"What kind of bum are you? Have you cheated on your wife
today? Have you cheated your employer today? Have you run a red light? Did you drive drunk ? What kind of an idiot are you? Look at your own soul. Are you clean? Then you can judge me!"
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/35955...jens-voigt-etc

The video of that and the other riders questioned (including Zabel & Julich) was on Youtube for a short while (Haben Sie sich heute schon gedopt?), but it disappeared quickly, and I've never been able to find it again.

That's a really dumb question though. Voigt was justified in being angry whether he was clean or dirty at the time.

 

[Mr.38%]

Those "interviews" were just ridicoulous. The only goal was to annoy the riders for a laugh of the audience. Really emberrassing journalism and really Germany at it's very, very best.

 

[Morpheus]

I think it is a safe bet to say that those riders who struggle to make the time limit, during the mountain stages in any of the three Grand Tours, are non-dopers. Or to put another way. Those who are not on the gear at that point of their career. A list comprised of both current and retired riders that You could safely assume are non-dopers, will amount to quite a short list.

 

[Alpehue]

For me the cleanest rider in the peleton is CAS.

Just watching the pain in his face.. or the fact that he is a great rider, but never does anything extrodinary!

Or the fact that his biggest accomplishment in life so far is getting his own private bar stool at the lokal pub in his hometown... Just dosent seem like a doper to me.

 

[Benotti69]

Those "interviews" were just ridicoulous. The only goal was to annoy the riders for a laugh of the audience. Really emberrassing journalism and really Germany at it's very, very best.

Stupid questions for sure. Tabloid style journalism.

But Germany has a decent history of going after doping in cycling.

They also went after Contador.

 

[AcademyCC]

I think now is the wrong time to be looking for clean riders in the pro peloton.

After what we have learned about the UCI, it is virtually impossible to believe who is clean and who is not.

Stand back from the riders and look at the teams.

Nearly all have a link to doping, some stronger than others but all have links from riders to doctors to DS admitted doping.

Also look at what the opinion is coming out of the pro peloton about Armstrong/UCI and that tells us the true story of the peloton.

There has been a lot of talk that cycling is cleaner, but the peloton is not speaking like people who race clean and condem doping.

So if you want to follow riders because you believe/hope they are clean, goodluck, but expect to be disappointed at some stage in the future unless the whole system is changed within pro cycling.

The bold is what really worries me. Surely if the vast majority of the peloton is clean like we are being told by JV, Brailsford et al we would be hearing at least a few more critical words directed towards Armstrong.

Instead - one Swedish pro with balls the size of watermelons speaking up. The rest - nothing. Legends of the sport supporting Armstrong.

I understand some don't want to be hasty in case something goes tits up - Lance gets his titles back and Pat comes down like a hammer on anybody that spoke out.

Who is clean in pro cycling? IMO there is two options
1) Their hiding under a rock waiting for some clue as too which bandwagon to jump on.
2) Their is none and what we are seeing is a sport that we thought maybe getting cleaner showing its true colours once again.

 

[hrotha]

Instead - one Swedish pro with balls the size of watermelons speaking up. The rest - nothing. Legends of the sport supporting Armstrong.

Again, give Engoulvent some credit.

 

[spalco]

I think it is a safe bet to say that those riders who struggle to make the time limit, during the mountain stages in any of the three Grand Tours, are non-dopers. Or to put another way. Those who are not on the gear at that point of their career. A list comprised of both current and retired riders that You could safely assume are non-dopers, will amount to quite a short list.

You'd think, but wasn't even Wim Vansevenant caught doping?

 

[Morpheus]

You'd think, but wasn't even Wim Vansevenant caught doping?

Good point.

Vansevenant holds the record for the most last place finishes in the overall general classification at the Tour. He was the Lanterne Rouge three times.

He was accused of importing doping products into Belgium in 2011, three years after his retirement. He said that they were for his own use.

Begs the question of what he may have been up to during his career !!

 

[Benotti69]

Good point.

Vansevenant holds the record for the most last place finishes in the overall general classification at the Tour. He was the Lanterne Rouge three times.

He was accused of importing doping products into Belgium in 2011, three years after his retirement. He said that they were for his own use.

Begs the question of what he may have been up to during his career !!

Vansevenant purposely rode for the lanern rouge.

In days past they awarded a jersey for the last place on the GTs. They stopped when riders started competing to be last. Pinarello (bike maker) was the winner of the Maglia Nero in the Giro a number of times.

 

[Bavarianrider]

I want to believe Jens is clean.

M

If you want to believe you rather have to go to church.

 

[Bavarianrider]

That is a statement that sadly may no longer have any true meaning.

I hear ya. He's a nice guy though.

I'm certain that's why Indurain has been left alone. He was humble and he basically disappeared.

I'd sure love to hear Jaschke now. He was screwed harder than most when the omerta was iron clad.

M

I doubt you want to hear jacksche.
After all Jacksche accused your man of doping.

 

[iZnoGouD]

Tiago Machado is the only clean rider of the peloton
if he juiced he would be at Contador level

 

[jonny testaronny]

Those "interviews" were just ridicoulous. The only goal was to annoy the riders for a laugh of the audience. Really emberrassing journalism and really Germany at it's very, very best.

Agreed, it was an antagonistic question. Speigel (the magazine) seems to specialize in them, whenever they interview a public figure. But the answer was most telling--"Look at your own soul. Are you clean? Then you can judge me!" He implicitly admits he dopes by counterattacking with the "those who live in glass houses..." charge.

BTW--Until last night, I hadn't seen the Colorado tour stage where he rode away from Kreuziger, Stetina, and two Colombians on a high-mountain pass. At 41 years of age. Even Paul called his solo breakaway "almost impossible to believe." Indeed.

 

[eyemgh]

As much as i like Jens, I changed my Avitar to Jorg.

M

 

[ingsve]

Thor Hushovd has always been regarded as a clean rider. I believe Jaan Kirsipuu once called him the only clean rider in the peloton in an Estonian newspaper. He came up under Roger Legeay in Credit Agricole which is in his favor I think. Another hint would be that he has ridden the classics his entire career and hasn't managed to do anything in them until a couple years ago when the peloton arguable has become cleaner. But who knows really. He's a little too friendly with Armstrong for my taste.