The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[indurain666]

. That's what was said further up this thread but don't have either of the quotes for this yet.

i.e.: B.S....don't make stuff up

 

[Bobby G]

I think AC's fault is that he did pull to the summit (see TFF youtube post at 1.45).
Nobody wanted Samu or Vino to get any gap before the summit, nor preffered to descent on their own (that is why AC wanted Samu to join).
BUT once the trio crested the summit 2gether, and once they knew AS was chasing after the mechanical failure/mistake (here's the real debate imo) they should have let him close the gap

Agreed. They tried suggesting on ITV that they wouldn't have known it was a mechanical. Surely race radio would have described the event pretty much as soon as it occurred. I think Alberto should have waited personally and I think less of him for it. However, we can hardly say it's a 'tarnished' MJ now.

1 thing though. Tomorrows stage has gone from being most likely a breakaway or sprint from a peleton of about 30-40 riders to possibly all hell breaking loose. I'm excited for one.

 

[TahoeNL]

Alberto shows the class we all speculated he had... none. He and LeMond would be great roommates.

 

[MKirilenko]

I'm surprised that AC fanboys don't even care about wanting to be SEEN to win in the right way. Wouldn't they prefer AC to get the yellow by riding Schleck off the wheel?

They're not really in the spirit of things. I guess they just want to support whoever is the winner and it's done doesn't matter.

Maybe u cant get it into your head filled with anger, frustration and hate for AC, so I say it again: Schleck had MJ on mountain's peak, he lost it on descent. Its not that hard to understand, is it?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

The only thing that makes me stop and re-think my position that Contador was in the wrong in not waiting for Schleck is the fact that I find myself on the same side of the issue as scribe, goober, BPC, and the other LA fanboys.

 

[Angliru]

Are you serious? Contador attacked immediately upon noticing the chain slip. Plus attacking a rider with a functional bike is racing, attacking a rider without a chain after not being able to follow said rider's attack is not.

Apparently there was nothing wrong with his bike that a proper shift would've corrected and thus avoided all this drama in the first place.

 

[MKirilenko]

do you realize that if andy and alberto were descending together andy wouldnt loose the time do you?

If, If, If. If only he could change gears properly, he would indeed stay with AC.

 

[saganftw]

"Of course, I would wait," Ullrich said Tuesday morning at his hotel here, where Stage 16 begins today. "If I would have won this race by taking advantage of someone's bad luck, then the race was not worth winning."

 

[indurain666]

Alberto shows the class we all speculated he had... none. He and LeMond would be great roommates.

Perhaps they didn't have the opportunity to take the same trailer-park class 101 course Lance took...

 

[Anonymous]

Alberto shows the class we all speculated he had... none. He and LeMond would be great roommates.

Man, Armstrong fanboys are a bitter lot in light of the fact that their fraud of a hero can't hack it because they put the kibosh on his junkie a$$. What a hoot you guys are.

 

[theyoungest]

Alberto shows the class we all speculated he had... none. He and LeMond would be great roommates.

Please don't make it so obvious you're an Armstrong fanboy. It makes anything you say about Contador irrelevant.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

The Lance fanboys are dragging the discussion down to their level where they have the advantage of experience.

 

[kurtinsc]

Maybe u cant get it into your head filled with anger, frustration and hate for AC, so I say it again: Schleck had MJ on mountain's peak, he lost it on descent. Its not that hard to understand, is it?

Andy descended on his own.

AC followed Sammy Sanchez's wheel.

Which do you think would provide a faster descent... for anyone... Going on your own or following possibly the best descender in the pelaton (certainly the best descender of the GC guys)?

Andy's descent was extremely good... but he's simply not Sammy Sanchez. Neither is Contador.

 

[MKirilenko]

"Of course, I would wait," Ullrich said Tuesday morning at his hotel here, where Stage 16 begins today. "If I would have won this race by taking advantage of someone's bad luck, then the race was not worth winning."

Quote more dopers, they are all monuments of fair play

 

[Dutchsmurf]

So lets see. We have Schleck attacking and Vino counters. If Vino counters, then you can be sure Contador, Menchov and Sanchez can do so too, once they got the room to do so. A couple seconds later you indeed see Contador closing the gap quite easily. Then Schleck screws up. Contador blows past him that soon after that, that even tho it isn't clear, you can assume he was nearby already. So the attack wouldn't have worked no matter what.

Should Contador have waited? I guess it all depends on where you draw the line. This was a human error, not really a mechanical problem. Not eating enough is a human error too. Not being in the right place at the right time too. You don't wait for people slowed down by their own mistakes. No matter which jersey they are wearing.
And even if it was a mechanical problem, the question still stands. I don't know any examples of people waiting for the yellow jersey at that point of the stage. In the heat of the battle, not too far from the top. Not really the place to wait. Someone is always going to give it a go at that point. If it wasn't Contador, someone else would have. Just human nature. If it happens before any serious attacks have been made, sure, you can wait. But not at that point. Andy says he would have waited. Would he also have waited if Menchov and/or Sanchez didn't?
And last, Andy didn't wait when the yellow jersey went down on the cobbles either. Armstrong didn't wait when Hushovd went down on the famous passage either. So does that mean not all yellow jerseys are equal? Andy got into the yellow jersey by attacking when both his direct rival AND the current yellow jersey were delayed. Guess that is just racing, isn't it?

 

[scribe]

I really feel bad for Alberto. Last year he had to ride the whole Tour with the whole LA/JB crap on his dinner table every single day. The guy makes a mistake (ok I don't think he should have waited after nobody waited for him...but lets call it a mistake for argument's sake) and now we have thousands or LA fanboys, french cynics and haters writing thousands of garbage articles. These are basically the same guys that were criticizing him last year for not sticking to JB's "plan"

I know the guy is easy to hate for American audiences (i.e. humble, down to earth, soft spoken, Spanish) but come on...

I can't wait to see AC crushing AS during the TT

So you enlist what happened with Armstrong in an effort for sympathy?

btw: I really admired Indurain, the Spaniard, during his racing career and still do, as I think lots of American and Anglo fans would agree. So please stop making such silly statements.

 

[salixcycling]

The only thing that makes me stop and re-think my position that Contador was in the wrong in not waiting for Schleck is the fact that I find myself on the same side of the issue as scribe, goober, BPC, and the other LA fanboys.

Wondered when that would hit you.

 

[nia O'Malley]

He waited, and when Samu and Menchov pulled through, he latched on. He made a decision at that point to ride with them for good or bad.

Yes, it would have been an EXTREMELY generous action to wait for Schlecklet at that point and lose time to Menchov and Samu. One that would be lauded for generations.

He didn't, and I just don't thing it was unforgivable, though if it were Armstrong who had done it, I would have never forgiven it. Hey, that is just how I roll.

Well, he says he didn't know it was bad at all, and if you read the whole interview you can see it was done right after he pulled up and he also said that he didn't think Andy had lost much time anyway. I believe him and besides it definitely should not have taken that long, it was one of those freak things. For all he knew Andy had blown up or something, so it is excusable.
And Andy would have caught up very quickly if only he hadn't started making knots in his chain somehow




Myself I find hard to forgive Armstrong for just showing up on my television screen

 

[Angliru]

schleck's teammate was in yellow. if cancellara hadn't neutralised the race we wouldn't be having this discussion.

erader

No, Chavanel was in yellow on the cobbles and was hindered by Frank Schleck's crash. No waiting was done there if I recall correctly.

 

[Bobby G]

"Of course, I would wait," Ullrich said Tuesday morning at his hotel here, where Stage 16 begins today. "If I would have won this race by taking advantage of someone's bad luck, then the race was not worth winning."

They had a good rivalry those two. Lance waited for him when he crashed on a decent in 2001 as well. Ulle's gesture was ultimately the more important anyhow.

 

[Biological Entity]

Maybe u cant get it into your head filled with anger, frustration and hate for AC, so I say it again: Schleck had MJ on mountain's peak, he lost it on descent. Its not that hard to understand, is it?

That's a bit aggressive, isn't it?

I think he would have caught Thomas Voeckler and thus been able to maintain the gap on the dissent. But the point is, even if it came back together he still would have been in yellow. Are you denying this?

I don't hate AC I just want him to win fair and square and not due to attacking whilst the other guy is fiddling with his chain.

 

[Anonymous]

Fact is that this will make tomorrow and Thursday much more interesting.

 

[scribe]

The only thing that makes me stop and re-think my position that Contador was in the wrong in not waiting for Schleck is the fact that I find myself on the same side of the issue as scribe, goober, BPC, and the other LA fanboys.

What? Go ahead and look at the official Armstrong thread to see how many posts I have in there. There are quite a few of us around here that don't partake in much of anything Armstrong, on either side of the fence.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, he says he didn't know it was bad at all, and if you read the whole interview you can see it was done right after he pulled up and he also said that he didn't think Andy had lost much time anyway. I believe him and besides it definitely should not have taken that long, it was one of those freak things. For all he knew Andy had blown up or something, so it is excusable.
And Andy would have caught up very quickly if only he hadn't started making knots in his chain somehow




Myself I find hard to forgive Armstrong for just showing up on my television screen

Yea, he could save a baby from a burning building and I would find some reason to hate him for it. Its biological at this point.

 

[VeloCity]

I've looked at this like 30 times.

http://www.cyclingfans.com/node/1111
* After the wheel hop, Vino sits down, and slows down visibly (compared to the background, not compared to Andy). So Vino the animal thought it was inappropriate to continue the attack.

Vino is looking behind at the exact moment AS drops his chain (-42 sec), turns around to see AS slowing down in front of him and lets up and moves to AS' right to avoid riding into AS' back wheel. I don't think it was because he "thought it was inappropriate to continue the attack" at all, it was to avoid crashing into AS, and at that point Vino was probably thinking that AS was shutting down the attack. There's no sign at all that Vino knew AS was having mechanical problems.