The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[Barrus]

I've looked at this like 30 times.

http://www.cyclingfans.com/node/1111

So at first I thought that was Alberto chasing Andy but it's actually Vino. So I'll make a number of observations here from watching this:

* At -0:44 in the frontal shot, Alberto is nowhere in sight, between the group and Vino.
* At -0:44 to -0:42 in the wide helicopter shot, just prior to the wheel hop, Vino gains only a few inches.
* After the wheel hop, Vino sits down, and slows down visibly (compared to the background, not compared to Andy). So Vino the animal thought it was inappropriate to continue the attack.
* Now around -0:37-36 we see Alberto pass Andy in the rear shot. This is where his attack really begins, after Andy had already been re-absorbed basically and Vino had eased up.
* Did Alberto know? By this time, Andy is barely moving and mostly staring at his own drivetrain. He gets off the bike about a second after Alberto passes him.

Also
* When the incident happens, you can see the idler is fairly well-extended, and then suddenly retracts.
* At -0:07, right when the incident occurs, it looks like Andy is trying to shift.
* Whatever happened causes the rear wheel to hop up.

I'll leave it to others to look at these bits and estimate exactly what the failure mode was.

To be honest if you look at that video, better quality than most I've seen, AS is still in his saddle pedalling, perhaps without really going forward, but it might not immediately indicate a problem for anyone not on his tail the moment the thing with the chain happened, it also appeared as though everyone else attacked, or countered AS his move, as you see everyone going past AS very quickly, DM, SS and VBD2

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.diariodeibiza.es/deportes/2010/07/19/contador-sabia-averia/422066.html

Contador reconoció que en la bajada ha preferido que se la jugara Samuel Sánchez. "Samu iba muy bien y preferí que tirase él en algunas curvas", precisó.

Okay, where does that show Contador saying "I waited for Samu so that he could pull on the way down" like you suggest. He is talking about Samu descending not why he waited for SS and Menchov after Andy had his problem. Creative work there.

 

[Cobblestones]

3 words of wisdom to you Mr. Cobble, Lance and Ulrich [sic] are done.

Three pieces of advise:

1) learn to count
2) learn to spell
3) read the thread, the Armstrong/Ullrich situation is discussed not only by me.

 

[nia O'Malley]

If this is what Andy thought happened well then I understand why he would be ****ed:



That's not what happened.

That might not be what he said either, as already the second part of the actual quote is conveniently truncated for effect and to make Andy look like a whiner

 

[goober]

Landis got his victory taken away and there's no decent proof against Lemond and Contador. If Contador tests positive 6 times for EPO like Lance did then you'd have a point.

It will all be coming out later this year. No biggie, I completed your list for you a 6 months early.

 

[killswitch]

AC took turns on the front after SS and DM bridged up to him, by that time he must have surely known that AS had a mechanical problem. He continually upped the pace and he was aware what was happening behind him. AC should have just followed.

 

[Cobblestones]

There we have it:

Når du står op og skifter gear uanset om det er foran eller bagpå så skal du passe på.

Kilde: http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1379238.ece#ixzz0u9TwSKFI

 

[Anonymous]

That might not be what he said either, as already the second part of the actual quote is conveniently truncated for effect and to make Andy look like a whiner

You don't have to do anything but listen to Schlecklet if you want to hear him whine. He has whined more than Cuddles, and that takes some effort.

 

[Anonymous]

There we have it:

Okay, the spanish I can work out, but would you translate the quote?

 

[The Crusher]

To be honest if you look at that video, better quality than most I've seen, AS is still in his saddle pedalling, perhaps without really going forward, but it might not immediately indicate a problem for anyone not on his tail the moment the thing with the chain happened, it also appeared as though everyone else attacked, or countered AS his move, as you see everyone going past AS very quickly, DM, SS and VBD2

Sorry, no experienced pro is gonna miss the fact that ten seconds into his major attack your biggest competitor is about to stop completely.

 

[indurain666]

That might not be what he said either, as already the second part of the actual quote is conveniently truncated for effect and to make Andy look like a whiner

Total bs ....Nothing wrong with arguing, we call them discussion forums for a reason...but lets try to use facts..every now and then

 

[killswitch]

You don't have to do anything but listen to Schlecklet if you want to hear him whine. He has whined more than Cuddles, and that takes some effort.

What did he say?

 

[superconfex]

except that noone booed contador

.............er...yeah...okay

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe this has been posted... I can't keep up.

Scott Sunderland's stage analysis

Let’s cut right to the chase, Contador should have waited for Schleck.

.............

The respect for the yellow jersey goes back a long way, and you heard it with the booing Contador got at the finish. They were not impressed. We've seen it in the past with Armstrong and Ullrich, and they both waited for each other and it showed great camaraderie and sportsmanship.

These guys are friends, they've been on holiday together and they obviously know each other quite well. Contador could have quite easily backed off the pedals and waited. In my book he should have. He would have looked like a man and he would have shown great respect for the yellow jersey. It could come back to bite him. I hope nothing happens to him but what happens if it does? Does Schleck say that he doesn't see it?

But WTF does Sunderland know?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/97th-tour-de-france-gt/stage-15/results

 

[Anonymous]

What did he say?

He said he would have waited...uh, yea Andy, we believe that because you have an obvious history of doing just that...

 

[nia O'Malley]

Okay, where does that show Contador saying "I waited for Samu so that he could pull on the way down" like you suggest. He is talking about Samu descending not why he waited for SS and Menchov after Andy had his problem. Creative work there.

Right, so he waited for Andy, not the others, then made sure the fastest descender was in front, just because. A right case of indecisiveness there.

You'd have a point if in any interview Contador had actually said he was waiting for Andy at all. He did not and he was not. I'm not dissing the action, but people said he supposedly was waiting, if he was waiting, it wasn't for Andy, but for someone to help him put even more time on him.
It appears to me to be an intelligent strategy, actually.

 

[Anonymous]

Reaction coming in from experts and media around the world. Sounds like a full-fledged condemnation of Contador, mirroring Cycling News' sentiments itself.

Yet to find a single article defending Contador's attack.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spo...full-of-anger-at-contador-who-gets-booed.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/07/19/cycling.schleck.contador.tour/#fbid=FTvuKXA5UZq

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE66I1WA20100719

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/other/2010/0719/1224275064568.html

 

[Cobblestones]

Okay, the spanish I can work out, but would you translate the quote?

When you get up and change gear, no matter whether you're in front or in the back, you have to watch it.

Every riders knows this. And this is Andy's responsibility. It's only Andy's fault said Bjarne Riis.

 

[jilbiker]

And yes, it is part of racing.


If Andy can't deal with it, he's not mentally ready to be a true champion and that's that.

If by tomorrow he is still whingeing, I'll have to revise my opinion of him. It's allowed in the heat of the moment, but to show you can win a Tour, you need to be grown up.

I still say the Andy is not matured enough to be a champion of tdf, there is more to winning majors than pure skill. temperament is key. A lot of whinning, mummy and big brother, and now crying because AC didn't wait to help moi. We ain't in 8th grade, grow up.

And typical of young lads with so much talent, I expect him to do something foolish tomorrow....

 

[Biological Entity]

I think you can see from Contador's looks and actions that he was conflicted..

Why are you still saying this when AC said in the post race interview that he had no idea Schleck had a problem? How can he be conflicted about something he doesn't know about?

At least you've dropped the line that Schleck was wrong to attack when AC was out of position.

And it's very much AC's style to look around all the time - he always does that.

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe this has been posted... I can't keep up.

Scott Sunderland's stage analysis

Let’s cut right to the chase, Contador should have waited for Schleck.

.............

The respect for the yellow jersey goes back a long way, and you heard it with the booing Contador got at the finish. They were not impressed. We've seen it in the past with Armstrong and Ullrich, and they both waited for each other and it showed great camaraderie and sportsmanship.

These guys are friends, they've been on holiday together and they obviously know each other quite well. Contador could have quite easily backed off the pedals and waited. In my book he should have. He would have looked like a man and he would have shown great respect for the yellow jersey. It could come back to bite him. I hope nothing happens to him but what happens if it does? Does Schleck say that he doesn't see it?

But WTF does Sunderland know?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/97th-tour-de-france-gt/stage-15/results

Well, Riis disagrees with him, but what does he know?

 

[cyclestationgiuseppe]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/photos/schleck-promises-fireworks-on-the-tourmalet/131868

This picture tells the tale, clearly AC can see AS has a problem.
I was an AC fan until today, now I just think he is a tool!

 

[Nickbeam]

for me, the situation is quite clear. Conta made the right thing. that's payback for stage number 3. and for things Andy said ih his yesterdays interview "it's between me and Conta". he showed no respect for such guys as Denis and Samu, who are really strong riders. that's the life Andy, you were lucky not to lose ~2 mins today

 

[nia O'Malley]

Total bs ....Nothing wrong with arguing, we call them discussion forums for a reason...but lets try to use facts..every now and then

Well I'm sorry, the quote was truncated

I'll try to look for it but there'll be 15 more pages on this thread by the time I find it again

 

[killswitch]

When you get up and change gear, no matter whether you're in front or in the back, you have to watch it.

Every riders knows this. And this is Andy's responsibility. It's only Andy's fault said Bjarne Riis.

Still Bertie should have just followed DM and SS.