The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[saganftw]

Cancellara's hidden cycling engine broke.



Just kidding lol

haha that would be interesting ...i can imagine "my engine broke down,they didnt wait"

 

[scribe]

Contador probably thought Shrek wanted to do another track stand on a mountain. You snooze, you lose.

The taste of cheap success.

 

[nvpacchi]

With regard to all these "unwritten rules" it shows class to wait when MJ is in trouble in the early portion of the race.

But in the heat of battle in the final 20k??? Its a stretch IMO, especially if the mechanical was more than partially AS's fault.

 

[VeloCity]

The road has proven that Sylvain Chavanel is not worthy of the yellow in Paris. Nothing would ever change that fact and all the racers understood that. The only think SC could hope for out of the cobbles was to hold the jersey until the alps. The mechanical spoiled that, just the way stage neutralization spoiled Cancellara's yellow.

The mechanical to Shrek, not the road, might be the decisive factor here on determining the yellow in Paris. There is a stark difference in this. To win on a single mechanical cheapens the effort of all involved in this race.

And the crash that caught up AC on stage 3 causing him to lose a minute to AS who did not wait for AC might also be a decisive factor on determining the yellow in Paris. Still failing to see the difference.

Again, waiting for the MJ is either "tradition" or it's not - can't be subjective to the particular individual wearing it at the time. So the "tradition" either applies equally to Chavanel as it does to Schleck, regardless of the circumstances, or there is no "tradition" at all.

 

[flicker]

All nanoseconds of a long Tour. If he waited for them he should be commended. Is he supposed to sit up and pace AS back to Menchov? If AS is to be the Tour champion he would need to overcome a little adversity. This point will be moot if Menchov takes over his position on the podium, don't you think?

Absolutley fine riding by Contador, Menchov and SS. SS and Menchov rode exactly how they should have rode. Contador rode unsportsmanlike. I think many fans find him goatish today. If they knock Andy off the podium they absolutely deserve too though. Now is the time for Andy to step up to the plate and show his mettle as a champion, or if he blows on the Toumelet so be it. The Toumelet will be awesome. Levi/bottle should lose about 9 minutes and the battle with the top 4 will be awesome. I can't wait. I am 100/00 behind Andy tomarrow.

 

[BroDeal]

It´s incredible that I´m reading so many guys defending Contador´s behavior... put yourself into AS shoes: would it be fair WITH YOU if your major rival takes advantage of a situation like this?

Everyone who says so has, at minum, no sense of fairness.

Schleck should not have shifted under full power. He fcuked up.

 

[cody_57]

It's either a "tradition" to wait for the MJ or it's not. Can't just be dependent on who happens to be wearing yellow or when it occurs during the race.

+1 Absolutely agree!

 

[Publicus]

I think the obvious solution is to allow Andy a 39 second head start tomorrow. If he can maintain the gap throughout the stage, he can have the maillot jaune.

 

[Futuroscope]

How was he able to almost catch them up by the top of the climb then?

Contador was the lead man, it was up to him to ease off.

you still don't get it? chasing isn't the same thing as dropping someone. do you understand the difference?

 

[oevkride]

Bjarne Riis says it's Andy's fault and nobody elses:
Danish Extrabladet:
http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1379238.ece
Translated:
http://translate.google.com/transla.../sport/cykling/article1379238.ece&sl=da&tl=en

 

[jilbiker]

And yes, it is part of racing.


If Andy can't deal with it, he's not mentally ready to be a true champion and that's that.

If by tomorrow he is still whingeing, I'll have to revise my opinion of him. It's allowed in the heat of the moment, but to show you can win a Tour, you need to be grown up.

I still say the Andy is not matured enough to be a champion of tdf, there is more to winning majors than pure skill. temperament is key. A lot of whinning, mummy and big brother, and now crying because AC didn't wait to help moi. We ain't in 8th grade, grow up.

And typical of young lads with so much talent, I expect him to do something foolish tomorrow....

 

[frizzlefry]

I agree. I'm sure you feel that way about Armstrong's decision to take advantage of his rivals' crash on the Passage du Gois, right?

Same thing with Mayo's crash in 2004, right?

Did LA have rivals in 99. Wasnt he just a domestigue at that point?
Did Mayo have the Yellow Jersey in 2004?

 

[enrecul]

makes me laugh

makes me laugh all this stuff about code of ethics etc in a sport that is riddled with liars and cheats......maybe andy is on better juice than contador....does that mean he should wait for him? LA didnt wait for ulle when he was obviously on supremo dope

 

[scribe]

I agree. I'm sure you feel that way about Armstrong's decision to take advantage of his rivals' crash on the Passage du Gois, right?

Same thing with Mayo's crash in 2004, right?

I don't care about Armstrong. It'd be a real shame if sentiments excuse what happened today.

 

[AtletiSK]

ok it is a bit controversial theme but let´s get it fair and square:

Stage 2: the peloton waits for Andy Schleck after his fall
Stage 3: Schleck in the group led by Cancellara takes huge advantage after the fall of his own brother, teammate and hot TdF favourite Frank, they pushed forward even though they knew Contador, Armstrong and other greats found themselves in the trouble after that unfortunate fall

so Andy should be the last one to criticize anyone´s sportsmanship....

the difference today is that this happened just 1,5 km from the summit and it was Andy who started the attack, Alberto just couldn´t know what was going on with Andy (who himself in addition under the stress made some mess from bike change...)... and don´t forget it was not only about AC, also Samu Sánchez and Menchov kept pushing...
I am sure that had it happened in the beggining of the climb they would have been informed by their teams and waited but this is racing and honestly this TdF edition is pretty boring in my opinion, very few attacks and any second counts...

my opinion is: Contador, Sánchez and Menchov made the right decision

 

[D Avoid]

Obviously Andy would've held on to the group if he hit the summit with them.

You are feeding a troll.

 

[Arnout]

Did LA have rivals in 99. Wasnt he just a domestigue at that point?
Did Mayo have the Yellow Jersey in 2004?

Virtually, yes. Armstrong was ****ing in his pants in 2004 because of Mayo's performance in the Dauphiné.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Whether it was bad sportsmanship on AC's part or not, it was utter stupidity for Riis to have put AS in that predicament WITH NO SUPPORTING TEAMMATES. Schleck could have summited a full minute ahead of Bertie and Bertie -- with support on the descent -- would have caught him up.

I've watched the video of the chain drop frame-by-frame. I can't maker out what his hands are doing but by watching the lower chainline and rear derailleur, I can tell AS was attempting a downshift in the rear and the chain dropped off the inside of the of the gear cluster. He was big-ringing at the time so he might have been attempting a double-shift which, in light of the outcome, would seem likely.

It bears noting that Andy cost himself an additional seven or eight seconds by failing to properly install the chain on the first attempt. He put it back on but failed to spin the crank enough. When he pushed off (and before he'd clipped in), the tension from the rear derailleur pulling the chain spun the crank backwards and his chain dropped off the chainrings a second time. Without those seven or eight seconds, he might have well have caught the AC group before the summit.

This will all be made moot by the final ITT because Bertie likely will put two to two and a half minutes on Andy.

 

[labratty]

I would have liked him to hold back, but they are well past before AS unclips and it is clear he is delayed. At that point DM and SS are there as well and all 3 must stop or none can, prisoner's dilemma.

If AC waited and the other two did not he drops 40s to them. They say 'we were not attacking the MJ, we have our own fight' Andy afterall dismissed them as irrelevant also rans. You get back the respect you give others Andy.

If AC waited and then has his own mechanical tomorrow while not in yellow, DM pushes again for 30s he is well within tt range. As it is if Menchov can wheelsuck tomorrow he is just 2 minutes down in a long tt, is better than AC as long as he is recovering OK and does looks to be coming through the stages very well this year.
Andy is the only one in the top 4 who thinks DM and SS are out of it yet.

 

[goober]

I'm talking about the likes of Merckx, Riss, Armstrong, Ullrich, Pantani, etc here. All dopers, although Merckx didn't use the good stuff like the others did.

You forgot Landis, Lemond, and Contador in your list - just helping keep it more complete.

 

[MKirilenko]

The taste of cheap success.

The taste of frustration
U still didnt replyto my comment about ur imaginary rules

 

[Arnout]

so Andy should be the last one to criticize anyone´s sportsmanship....

Fact is, Andy doesn't. He says he would've done the same.

However, many sideliners have their own opinion.

 

[Anonymous]

Contador probably needed a bit of a rest; he had just closed a pretty big gap and attacked through it. But yes, we do need to consider Sanchez and the descent. I think Menchov had every right to ride hard to the summit and try and dislodge Sanchez from third place. Likewise, if Sanchez had been able to drop AC before the summit, then fair enough. But once all three crested the summit together-- and obviously talked it over-- the class move would have been to let AS rejoin.

That is reasonable.

I think you can see from Contador's looks and actions that he was conflicted. On a gut level, I think he chose the wrong course, but I don't think it is unforgivable, nor do I believe that Andy would have waited in the same instance. Show me his history of doing this. I can definitely show you an instance where he didn't. I can also show you the tape of him attacking his main rival when he was blocked up at the back of the group. If Andy's whole "I am a fair play kind of guy" thing is genuine, why not wait to attack when your rival is on your wheel or you are on his? Maybe Contador should not have been at the back, but SPORTSMAN thing to do is wait until he is back to attack, unless he was back because he was weak. Clearly that was not the case.

 

[Anonymous]

AC waited for those 2 because he needed them on the descent, there's nothing else to it. AC even says it in interviews, if you can read spanish, check it, I can and just read it. He wanted Sanchez in front of him. You think he wanted to descend on his own? LoL.


You must be deaf as a post or you didn't watch it. The jeering was pretty intense.

Citation please.

 

[ozymandias]

The "huge omg dropped" gap to Schleck buddy, not anyone else... Contador had to go 100% to catch up, he's not going to instantly switch off.

In fact, when you're riding up a 10 percent grade, it's very, very easy to "instantly switch off".