The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[theovaf]

Just a thought.
Lets say the mechanical didn't happen...
Andy crosses the summit with 10'' over Vino and 20'' over AC, Samu et al (succesful attack, right?).
What is the normal progression of things? They finish all in the same group imo.

Since i want to continue following with the same passion, i'm ready to buy the "Andy's fault" interpretation

 

[TahoeNL]

Originally Posted by TahoeNL
Alberto shows the class we all speculated he had... none. He and LeMond would be great roommates.

"Please don't make it so obvious you're an Armstrong fanboy. It makes anything you say about Contador irrelevant." -theyoungest (Huffy-ridding-member)


A Lance fan I'm not, but a huffy riding looser that is so twisted with bitterness (theyoungest) that can't see how pathetic it is to take advantage of a mechanical in situation, I am. Think of the class Alberto could of shown by talking Menchov and Sandchez into slowing down. They all had race radio, they all knew he was coming back... pathetic. For once I find myself on side of a lot of French fans! All those booing AC. Go figure!

 

[skidmark]

This just in:

Alberto Contador was interviewed about his tactics in today's stage. 'I had good sensations, and it was a very nervous climb. When Andy went, I was in a bad position on the road, and got back up to go, and then I don't know what happened, he was gone'.

When pressed on the issue of whether he would have known about Schleck's mechanical through his team's radio, Contador said 'yes, the team informed me. However, they said that internet forums had not yet determined whether or not it was Andy's fault that his chain dropped, or if it was a true mechanical. That is why I was looking over my shoulder so much, I wanted to wait until guys like BroDeal and ACF94 weighed in on the subject. When it was still unclear what people on the internet thought when we reached the top of the climb, I had to mark Sanchez on the descent and as a result, Andy lost time'

 

[VeloCity]

Have you ever passed someone who was staring at their drivetrain, and thought "yeah I bet he's just tired". It also would've been the worst attack of all time. Ten seconds and straight to the back.

Please, Vino was past AS about a micro-second after AS had dropped his chain, there's not a chance in hell that Vino knew what actually happened.

 

[nia O'Malley]

To all the LA fanboys, AS comments after cooling down a bit (translated, but not like some of these guys translations lol):

"People can say whatever they want (about AC) but Alberto was one of the guys that waited for me in Spa. That is fair-play"

That was part 1 of that damn quote that I said was truncated!!! Now, all we need is the middle part




As for Vino et al only starting to catch up After AS had his wheel up in the air, and not before, or even during, that is what I personally saw.
I trust we'll see a replay tomorrow at le Tourmalet and we'll know where we stand.

 

[Anonymous]

The only thing that makes me stop and re-think my position that Contador was in the wrong in not waiting for Schleck is the fact that I find myself on the same side of the issue as scribe, goober, BPC, and the other LA fanboys.

And a conservative.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Contador is the new Cannibal. The weak die.

Discuss.

I have thought that very thing. He's a throwback, attacking when tactically unnecessary, just to put his own exclamation mark on the stage, like last year on Col de la Colombière. Pure Merckx.

If you think this will be the first grand tour ever won because a rider ignored one of those "unwritten rules," you should look into an incident know as le Chéri-Pipi.

 

[The Crusher]

He had a good shot at getting caught by Contador, if that is what you mean. Lets not be naive here and pretend that Contador would not have caught him anyway. He was at the back of the pack and shot around them and nobody could catch his wheel. I would suggest that from past evidence, that means he was moving fast enough to catch anyone he wanted. Plus Vino was about to catch him, and to say he had barely gained ground is not correct. He too started from somewhere at the back of the pack and was gaining good ground.

Past evidence may suggest that but past evidence doesn't win races. So what we know is that Vino and Contador are the only riders out there at Andy's level, which we knew anyway. And as for Vino gaining? He had a big initial burst of speed. But if you look at that video, over about a second and a half before Andy tried to UPshift, Vino probably gained about four inches. Vino was slowing before the mechanical while Andy was still accelerating.

tom

 

[warmfuzzies]

Albertoe showed a gross lack of class today. He disrespected a fine Tour tradition by intentionally pressing his advantage while his primary rival had a mechanical. What a PisTOOLero.

 

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by TahoeNL
Alberto shows the class we all speculated he had... none. He and LeMond would be great roommates.

"Please don't make it so obvious you're an Armstrong fanboy. It makes anything you say about Contador irrelevant." -theyoungest (Huffy-ridding-member)


A Lance fan I'm not, but a huffy riding looser that is so twisted with bitterness (theyoungest) that can't see how pathetic it is to take advantage of a mechanical in situation, I am. Think of the class Alberto could of shown by talking Menchov and Sandchez into slowing down. They all had race radio, they all knew he was coming back... pathetic. For once I find myself on side of a lot of French fans! All those booing AC. Go figure!

That is what all Lance fanboys say.

 

[scribe]

This just in:

Alberto Contador was interviewed about his tactics in today's stage. 'I had good sensations, and it was a very nervous climb. When Andy went, I was in a bad position on the road, and got back up to go, and then I don't know what happened, he was gone'.

When pressed on the issue of whether he would have known about Schleck's mechanical through his team's radio, Contador said 'yes, the team informed me. However, they said that internet forums had not yet determined whether or not it was Andy's fault that his chain dropped, or if it was a true mechanical. That is why I was looking over my shoulder so much, I wanted to wait until guys like BroDeal and ACF94 weighed in on the subject. When it was still unclear what people on the internet thought when we reached the top of the climb, I had to mark Sanchez on the descent and as a result, Andy lost time'

LOL

Where is ACF? He has fallen faster behind the discussion than Armstrong has left the back of the peloton.

 

[Biological Entity]

He had a good shot at getting caught by Contador, if that is what you mean. Lets not be naive here and pretend that Contador would not have caught him anyway. He was at the back of the pack and shot around them and nobody could catch his wheel. I would suggest that from past evidence, that means he was moving fast enough to catch anyone he wanted. Plus Vino was about to catch him, and to say he had barely gained ground is not correct. He too started from somewhere at the back of the pack and was gaining good ground.

This is ignorant again. AS is just as fast as Contador but takes longer to get up to speed, which is why it is harder for him to get away, but this looked like a very strong attack and he was about to hit top speed in the big ring. Given how he made back so much time after the incident, it now looks likely there would have been a gap by the top of the climb.

That's the frustrating thing about it. It would be different if AC was in last years form and was likely to blast away anyway and Schleck was just hanging on. The signs are that AS would have gotten a gap by the top of the climb and possibly have been able to hold that if he worked with Thomas Voeckler. Even if he would not have been able to maintain it and they finished that still would have kept Schleck in yellow.

You'll get the hang of it.

 

[Von Mises]

Andy Schleck really can't have it both ways. Either you wait on the yellow jersey wearer or not. They (Saxo) didn't wait on Chavanel when he crashed while wearing the leaders' jersey on stage 3. They didn't even wait to see if Frank Schleck was okay when his crash caused Contador to lose the time the time that he did on that stage. Someone said "karma is a b!tch". That applies here also.

What happened on stage 3 is irrelevant to present situation. Even if Saxo and Schleck did wrong on stage 3, it does not justify Contador´s action.

 

[The Crusher]

Please, Vino was past AS about a micro-second after AS had dropped his chain, there's not a chance in hell that Vino knew what actually happened.

http://www.cyclingfans.com/node/1111
From -0:43 to -0:38.

If by micro-second you mean 3-4 seconds, yeah. And you can see Vino slow IN RESPONSE to AS slowing, BEFORE Vino passed him.

 

[TahoeNL]

Originally Posted by TahoeNL
Alberto shows the class we all speculated he had... none.

Alberto shows the class we all speculated he had... none.
Who's "we"? -VeloCity

Uhh... I guess there are lots of you Huffy riders that think he was classy before - and still think so... enjoy the Huffy!

 

[warmfuzzies]

Nice merciless effort by Bertie. Exactly what I would have done.

Spoken like a true pisTOOLero. Been practicing your fingerbanging?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That's a bit aggressive, isn't it?

I think he would have caught Thomas Voeckler and thus been able to maintain the gap on the dissent. But the point is, even if it came back together he still would have been in yellow. Are you denying this?

I don't hate AC I just want him to win fair and square and not due to attacking whilst the other guy is fiddling with his chain.

Thanks for the laugh BPC - so Andy was going to make up 5 minutes on TommyV on a "dissent'.......

 

[kurtinsc]

http://www.cyclingfans.com/node/1111
From -0:43 to -0:38.

If by micro-second you mean 3-4 seconds, yeah. And you can see Vino slow IN RESPONSE to AS slowing, BEFORE Vino passed him.

That was about 7-10 seconds between Andy's chain going and Contador going past. I really wish we could have seen the results of that attack. That was a large gap.

 

[Biological Entity]

What happened on stage 3 is irrelevant to present situation. Even if Saxo and Schleck did wrong on stage 3, it does not justify Contador´s action.

The cobbles are a completely random situation anyway which is why many believe they should not be in a grand tour. Nobody ever waits on the cobbles, which is why you never saw Armstrong fans whine that Contador sailed past whilst he was at the side of the road.

But there has been a long tradition of waiting for GC contenders who have mechanicals on the mointain stages.

 

[SpeedWay]

BTW does it seem like I'm angry? How astute of you to notice! This sport is populated with too many "unspoken" rules. Most are too negative, and far too many are hypocritical, for my taste.

Look on the bright side. Your binky is going to go down in infamy(and thats a long time) for the reception he received on the podium today. Don't be angry, be like AC , "I loves me some me" and screw all those negative, hypocritical fans who have no reason to react the way they did. He's in yellow and that's all that counts. Last year he didn't need a team, this year he doesn't need any class.

 

[kb1111]

 

[El Pistolero]

What happened on stage 3 is irrelevant to present situation. Even if Saxo and Schleck did wrong on stage 3, it does not justify Contador´s action.

It does, we're not living in a fairy tale world here. What comes around goes around.

 

[warmfuzzies]

What was AC supposed to do, sit up and wait for AS by himself and allow Menchov and Sanchez - two pretty damn good TT'ers - to ride off? It's tough luck for AS, but it's not a two-man race.

Classy Tour tradition would have been to control the race at the front until Andy got his mechanical squared away.

 

[Biological Entity]

Thanks for the laugh BPC - so Andy was going to make up 5 minutes on TommyV on a "dissent'.......

No, he would have caught him by the top of the climb in that scenario. Remember the AC group finished just behind him.

 

[kurtinsc]

And that was a good 3-4 seconds after the chain went.