The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[saganftw]

Ok, serious question: how many of you knew what was going on with Andy when he shut down the attack?

commentator i was watching knew like 0,5 seconds after it happend...but hes like biketechnology freak so i was not surprised

 

[Anonymous]

I only have a single question:

what if instead of a chain falling off, Andy had a puncture?

AC attacks.

 

[roundabout]

I only have a single question:

what if instead of a chain falling off, Andy had a puncture?

Obviously his fault for finding that piece of road.

 

[scribe]

I only have a single question:

what if instead of a chain falling off, Andy had a puncture?

I don't think there is any question that AC would attack again if given the opportunity.

 

[nia O'Malley]

Ok, serious question: how many of you knew what was going on with Andy when he shut down the attack?

Immediately. The back wheel jumping straight into the air was sort of a giant dead giveaway. And the commentators speak in irish of which I have no word, so I didn't pick it up from them

It didn't even occur to me to think AC should wait in this particular case, but rather I was shouting at the TV to get AS to get his chain back in place before disaster struck too bad, actually

And then I waaaaaed a lot

 

[MKirilenko]

you are obvious contador fanboy everything you say is irrelevant

Irrelevant to ur hatred to AC. I was just laughing at the guy's insults towards AC without a word of explanation. And thats just pure frustration.

 

[TahoeNL]

Originally Posted by Moose McKnuckles (Huffy rider)
"Perhaps the only positive in today's stage is that the Lance fans really have their panties in a knot."

They do? What does today's incident have to do with Armstrong? Or are you one of those "cycling fans" who can't get it up unless Armstrong has something to do with the result? -Piratical

So true Moose and his pack of Huffy riders aren't cycling fans, just LA haters. sad... If they where cycling fans they could see pisTOOlero for what he is and the little respect he has for cycling and winning. Does anyone else want win the way he AC did today in their own life? If so join the "win at all cost team", there seems to be more room on the team...

 

[Four Winds]

To say that Schleck having a chain problem is amateur is neither here nor there. It was a problem with the bike.

And it's also unfair to say AS only lost the yellow because of his descent when he was with VdB instead of the others. You'd have imagined he'd have at least summitted with Sanchez and Menchov, and even if AC had attacked before then and gained time at the top he'd have been caught again by the chasers.

And anyway Contador says he didn't even know there was an "incident" until after he'd piled on the coals for several k. Which I find laughable. Was he wearing black-out shades?

 

[The Crusher]

Ok, serious question: how many of you knew what was going on with Andy when he shut down the attack?

Honestly, my first thought was along the lines of. "Whoa, he can't be shutting down his attack already.. that'd be the lamest attack in the history of the Tour".

And combining that thought with him looking down, made it pretty obvious, within a second or two, that he had a mechanical of some kind. Now maybe my angle was better (or worse?) than the riders. But I think they do have a little more experience than I do at reading their opponents.

 

[kurtinsc]

Andy started the day with a 31 second lead. He crossed the summit 17 seconds after Alberto and was 39 seconds behind at the finish.

Conclusion: Andy Schleck lost the MJ in the descent, not on the climb.

Please... stop.


Alberto was descending with Sammy Sanchez.

Andy was on his own. To be honest only losing 22 seconds on the descent showed Andy descended incredibly well. He gained time trying to catch up on the climb... but nobody is catching Sanchez going downhill.

Andy lost because he couldn't close the entire gap before the beginning of the descent. Had he made up that last 17 seconds then, there would have been no gap at the bottom. Contador was riding at the front on the climb. He crossed the summit ahead of both Sanchez and Menchov.

I'm not saying Contador did anything wrong. But let's not pervert the facts... the time was lost on the climb... had he made contact on the climb there would have been no time difference at the bottom.

 

[saganftw]

if armstrong did the same as contador 99% of this forum would just beat the keyboard from pure hatred

its not about what happend but who did it

 

[Publicus]

I knew. Eurosport commentators knew.

At the precise moment or after a few seconds? And how many watts were you and they putting out at the time when you made that instantaneous determination?

 

[Piratical]

So here's another idle question aimed primiarily at those who criticize Contador's decision today - if the roles are reversed tomorrow and Schleck attacks after a Contador mechanical - is he justified "eye for an eye" or must he wait because sportsmanship should be respected regardless of whether your opponent would do the same?

 

[ManInFull]

without reading through all 24+ pages, I think this sums it up. It shows a lack of experience and class on Contador's part that we've seen in the Tour the past 2 years. Last year attacking against team orders that took Armstrong out of the running and putting Kloden off the podium, and this year attacking and bringing others up and taking away Vino's first chance at a stage victory. I was never anti-Contador, but now I see him as a childish brat. My $0.02.

I might agree with this year's issue. But, last year's issue was total BS. You don't have those problems if the ENTIRE team is riding for 1 GC contender. Last year, AC won in spite of his team. When Lance was the man, the was never any question about who every member of the team was working for. Made things a lot easier, didn't it?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That was about 7-10 seconds between Andy's chain going and Contador going past. I really wish we could have seen the results of that attack. That was a large gap.

No.

Here is the video - -AS hits the bump at-42, but just before the shot changes from heilcopter to moto (@-38) you can see AC's front wheel

AC was going by AS @-37.
Vino had made up the gap to AS & AC was almost on Vinos wheel - they had him.

 

[Publicus]

Immediately. The back wheel jumping straight into the air was sort of a giant dead giveaway. And the commentators speak in irish of which I have no word, so I didn't pick it up from them

It didn't even occur to me to think AC should wait in this particular case, but rather I was shouting at the TV to get AS to get his chain back in place before disaster struck too bad, actually

And then I waaaaaed a lot

Ok. You cats are better than me. I didn't see the bump initially, was too busy watching to see if Vino could close him down and how quickly AC would be able to get on his wheel.

 

[Von Mises]

At the precise moment or after a few seconds? And how many watts were you and they putting out at the time when you made that instantaneous determination?

I am sorry that I did not clock my reaction time.

 

[Hugh Januss]

David Harmon of Eurosport was straight on it, saying he's had a problem even before AC had past him. You don't launch a big attack and then just stop peddling and look down for ages.

Hi BPC. Wow more than 50 posts in less than 4 hours that has got to be a forum record.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Originally Posted by Moose McKnuckles (Huffy rider)
"Perhaps the only positive in today's stage is that the Lance fans really have their panties in a knot."

They do? What does today's incident have to do with Armstrong? Or are you one of those "cycling fans" who can't get it up unless Armstrong has something to do with the result? -Piratical

So true Moose and his pack of Huffy riders aren't cycling fans, just LA haters. sad... If they where cycling fans they could see pisTOOlero for what he is and the little respect he has for cycling and winning. Does anyone else want win the way he AC did today in their own life? If so join the "win at all cost team", there seems to be more room on the team...

Little known fact to nitwits who bag on Huffy bikes.

Hampsten won his Giro on a....Huffy.

 

[goober]

AC fans. Please admit this atleast.

When AC wins the Tour in a week's time, everyone will say it was because of Schleck's mechanical.

That's a fact. Admit it.

His win is now tainted.

AC has alienated millions of potential fans and supporters. All the support is behind AS now. Ac will probably win anyway but from now, forever, AC is a marked man.

More likely: When AC wins the Tour in a week's, AS fans will say it was because of Schleck's mechanical.

 

[TahoeNL]

without reading through all 24+ pages, I think this sums it up. It shows a lack of experience and class on Contador's part that we've seen in the Tour the past 2 years. Last year attacking against team orders that took Armstrong out of the running and putting Kloden off the podium, and this year attacking and bringing others up and taking away Vino's first chance at a stage victory. I was never anti-Contador, but now I see him as a childish brat. My $0.02.

WOW - best post in all the ones I've read...

 

[Dutchsmurf]

I only have a single question:

what if instead of a chain falling off, Andy had a puncture?

Then it wouldn't have mattered, since Andy would have been back even further then. He started riding now by the time his team car arrived. Add another 20+ seconds to that for a wheel or bike change and Andy is behind by a full minute. Everyone would have just used a steady rhythm with the same end result, but then with a bigger gap. Nobody waited for Evans in the Vuelta. You just don't wait at that point of the race. Not for the yellow jersey, not for anyone.

Now if it had happened 20kms earlier, everyone would have waited. No doubt about that. But stopping the race after the first attack by someone of the top 10 has been made.... Has that ever happened? Ullrich and Armstrong waiting for each other didn't happen in the middle of the fight.

The real fun thing is, if everyone did wait, we would be having a discussion about why they shouldn't have waited and just keep on racing.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Hi BPC. Wow more than 50 posts in less than 4 hours that has got to be a forum record.

Weren't you telling me not to quote BPC's posts yesterday. You've been doing it all day. What gives?

 

[Publicus]

Honestly, my first thought was along the lines of. "Whoa, he can't be shutting down his attack already.. that'd be the lamest attack in the history of the Tour".

And combining that thought with him looking down, made it pretty obvious, within a second or two, that he had a mechanical of some kind. Now maybe my angle was better (or worse?) than the riders. But I think they do have a little more experience than I do at reading their opponents.

I think my point was that you were sitting at home watching and it took you a few seconds to figure it out. Now imagine making that determination while going balls out on a 7%+ grade to close out an attack that caught you off guard...

 

[The Crusher]

No.

Here is the video - -AS hits the bump at-42, but just before the shot changes from heilcopter to moto (@-38) you can see AC's front wheel

AC was going by AS @-37.
Vino had made up the gap to AS & AC was almost on Vinos wheel - they had him.

I think you're failing to appreciate how quickly you slow down when your chain comes off going up a 7-10% grade. Yes, ten seconds into his attack, he'd only opened up a gap of five or six seconds on AC.

And he was about to shift up and, you know, go faster.