The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[kurtinsc]

As I posted earlier the stage did not end on the mountain - so even if* Andy had a gap he would have lost it all on the descent.

*And due to Vino having closed the gap and AC being right behind - that attack was not enough to displace AC.

It didn't look like Contador was right behind Vino on the video... when Vino slowed to avoid Andy, AC caught up and passed him very quickly... but there was a significant gap between Vino and the head of the next group... and Contador wasn't at the head when the chain went. If you look at -44... that was quite a gap.

http://www.cyclingfans.com/node/1111

He would probably have closed it anyway... but it was a large gap when the chain went... not a few bike lengths.

 

[Aguirre]

this anti-spanish forum makes me laugh a lot

doubt many of you have seen cycling in the times of hinault and fignon.

Contador doesn't have to be guilty when Andy attacks full power 2km to the summit, different would have been a mechanical 10 km to the summit with the pace of the group etc., his clumsyness makes him to play wrong, Contador passes him and he, samuel and Menchov are not really concern about how big the "mechanical" (obviously an euphemism...) is, how they can?

They have a vision of the race, and we have another vision on TV... and it os easy to judge from this point of view, and be hypocrital too

 

[The Crusher]

Ok. People complained that some are calling it a mechanical without evidence. Fair enough, I don't know for sure. But where's the evidence that it's rider error?

Let's see some evidence. Look at the video, and show us where he went wrong. I'm not taking sides on this one yet, I'm just saying I haven't heard an adequate explanation of what he did wrong.

 

[hrotha]

Look closely here, guys:

http://www.rtve.es/mediateca/videos/20100719/averia-andy-schleck-bales/833011.shtml

You'll see how there's no way for AC to realize what happended to AS. He was attacking like mad and overtook the Yellow Jersey.

AS's bike "bumps" at 11" mark. AC overtakes him at full speed at 14"mark.

Honestly. Does anyone think, after watching this carefully, that in 3" time AC had time to realize what happened?
And, even in the strange situation that he did, how could he possibly stop and wait for him while all the other rivals swished by?

Yes. He was right behind. Three seconds are more than enough. Also, Contador went first, Samu and Menchov followed.

You can argue it's okay not to wait, but don't twist the facts, please.

I'm not buying Contador's explanation. I have a hard time believing he did not see something was wrong with Andy's bike.

 

[bonked79]

AS should be ****ed at himself NOT AC!

Andy made the attack and wanted to make shift from the 42-ring to the big ring up on a climb and dropped his chain which locks up his frame. BTW, who makes a shift like that and if the chain drops it's your own fault. I've dropped my chain in the past and no one has slowed up to wait up for me. AC made the attack unaware of the mechanical and had to follow his opponents. If anyone should be ****ed it should be Andy for making deciding to be overambitious and shift into a bigger ring. Yes it's unfortunate his chain dropped but that's bike racing. With all that's happened in the tour, it's the nature of bike racing. I know AC still has class and tomorrow will be a fun day to watch. It makes for a exciting tour!

 

[Maine72]

Hello
First of all, this is my 1st contact with yours. In the heat of the moment I have decided to take part on the discussion.
go on then.

I am Spanish like Contador. I am with Andy and this is not fireplay. Not what that occurred on the race but what Contador have said after the stage. He lies as a convict to survive...I do not agree with him.

 

[Speedzero]

OK y'all. You've got to realize there is a big difference between BAD LUCK such as a flat tyre or a dog running in front of your wheel, and an ERROR commited by the rider, such as a shifting error. Andy Schleck commited an error, as such, noone can be expected to wait for him while the race is "on".

+100. Nailed it in your first comment on this board.

 

[karinc]

YES!!!! what a hollow and stupid victory for Contador can he really be proud?? I hope he gets switched into a ditch

 

[kurtinsc]

Look closely here, guys:

http://www.rtve.es/mediateca/videos/20100719/averia-andy-schleck-bales/833011.shtml

You'll see how there's no way for AC to realize what happended to AS. He was attacking like mad and overtook the Yellow Jersey.

AS's bike "bumps" at 11" mark. AC overtakes him at full speed at 14"mark.

Honestly. Does anyone think, after watching this carefully, that in 3" time AC had time to realize what happened?
And, even in the strange situation that he did, how could he possibly stop and wait for him while all the other rivals swished by?

Looks like 5 seconds to me.

 

[dolophonic]

" From what i've heard".. ha ha .. go on ...! Mancrusher.

 

[saganftw]

Having finally seen it my two pennorth worth

1) Andy schleck needs to learn how to change gear properly
2) It was not a mechanical, it was what they would call in F1 "driver error"
3) It took andy a full ten seconds to even slow down and look at his chain
4) it took him more than 30 seconds to put the chain on after fannying around trying to put it on slack with it on the small chainring

I could have recognised the problem, stopped and fixed it quicker than the 40 seconds it took him. And it was kind of a basic error to start with.

Should contador have stopped, I dont think he had to and I have no problem with him not stopping, it wasnt a puncture, a failed part etc, it was rider error.

However, had he stopped he probably would have got serious karma for it. Similar to a few years ago in a football (soccer) match when the goalkeeper was down and the corner came in, paulo di canio caught the ball and gave it to the ref. He was within his rights to score, but decided to be sporting. AC could have been sporting. That said, if he had, i still think he would have attacked andy further up the hill and kicked his ****.

Andy made a mistake, AC was within his rights to carry on. But seriously, baby schleck needs to learn how to put a chain on. Interestingly both Roche and Hayles or whoever was in the eurosport studio said Andy was crap at putting a chain back on.

one thing i will say, is why is it, on a climb if a leader punctures, has a mechanical its considered polite to wait, but on the cobbles its anything goes.

it doesnt matter if it was andys mistake or not,contador didnt know it was andys mistake...he attacked anyway...it could be puncture AC would still attack

in my eyes andys bad shifting doesnt justify attack on MJ in troubles,but i wont call him dirty,just not being gentleman , he could have won TdF off the bike too

 

[phlatties]

you know who I feel sorry for? Saxo's maybe future ex-mechanic. will he be a fall guy? I doubt it. classic rider error. we've all had 'em.

 

[Gcraenen]

+100. Nailed it in your first comment on this board.

Thanks man, I signed up for this forum just so I could post that. too many people are making this a popularity contest. you've got to be accountable for your mistakes.

 

[red_flanders]

I sure wish AC had simply sat on Menchov and SS. He knew there was a problem and drove the pace. I don't care for what he did in the tactical situation one bit.

As for whether he would have been gapped by Andy's attack, no. Quite simply, no.

I watched it twice this morning in HD and he was in a bad position (of his own making) when Andy attacked. He was boxed in an took time to clear and respond. Vino closed quickly and easily. What does that tell you? Contador was out of that group like lightning, covering easily, just as he has every other attack. Is it possible that Andy could have gapped him if the attack continued? No. He this attack was too late in the climb and not decisive enough.

Is AS or AC stronger in the mountains? We will see on Thursday. Nothing was proven either way today.

 

[Biological Entity]

Ok - look again at the video - AC is not even in the shot when AS attacks. Yet when we get a view from the front he is almost on Vinos wheel.

This wasnt a TT - it was a race and AC had that move covered. I think AS is better in the mountains atm - but AC is well able to cover every move.

If no mechanical - they finish in the same time.

You can't know that. AS was about to put it in the big ring and take off. Given how slow AC was up the climb, if he had tried to stay with Schleck he could have blown. Instead he was allowed to set his own pace.

But if they did finish together, that still would be a very different situation to now. Being behind 35 seconds totally changes the race for Schleck - he has to take much more risks and Contador can be much more relaxed and confident.

It was a game changer.

 

[nowhereman]

If you leave in a huff, we'll really miss you.

Not going anywhere toad, I'll be here just to check out how low it all goes, it's what soothes me.

 

[smoking roach]

It's a serious stretch to accuse AS of rider error. The replays don't show Andy hitting his shifters prior to this incredibly bad timed mechanical.

Contador may not have known exactly what happened, but you can be sure he knew Andy had SOME KIND of mechanical, and he attacked out of desperation. Stopping and waiting is too much to ask, but unleashing a searing attack at that moment? No class, no respect, he needs to lose that jersey.

 

[The Crusher]

Ok - look again at the video - AC is not even in the shot when AS attacks. Yet when we get a view from the front he is almost on Vinos wheel.

This wasnt a TT - it was a race and AC had that move covered. I think AS is better in the mountains atm - but AC is well able to cover every move.

If no mechanical - they finish in the same time.

The front view is deceptive. Being at a distance, and zooming in tends to flatten the field of view. But in the video, you do see AC appear a bit behind Vino, after both Andy and Vino have slowed down.

So I think AC was a bit out of position, and made a good effort to get back. But I think that without that mechanical, AS would've been able to maintain and open up the gap.

Ultimately, who knows, I'll admit that psychology has a huge and unpredictable role. But I think seeing Andy climb faster than Alberto makes for a pretty strong case.

 

[Anonymous]

And let me also add that if I were AC and I were at the back when my main competitor attacked me, when I went by him struggling with his pedals, I would have thought "Sucks for you." Maybe it is "sporting" to attack when Andy did, but it was a bit of a weasel move, and one good turn deserves another IMO.

 

[Benotti69]

Yes. He was right behind. Three seconds are more than enough. Also, Contador went first, Samu and Menchov followed.

You can argue it's okay not to wait, but don't twist the facts, please.

I'm not buying Contador's explanation. I have a hard time believing he did not see something was wrong with Andy's bike.

Yep.

Contador is lying. These 2 are fighting it out for the TdF, they notice everything in a split second, they have too. He was behind when it happened and had a perfect view. He very quickly decided to put the hammer down and then when Mechov and Samu caught him he let them ride to make it look like he was not attacking, but he came past Schleck saw the chain off and Schleck having a mechanical and took advantage of it.

It will be unlikely of Contador to receive any such favours/respect in the future in this race and he may yet regret today in years to come.

It is quite sad as i was enjoying seeing these 2 able to get on and chat in the peloton with what seemed a healthy respect and friendliness towards each other, which we need in modern sport. Alas it seems the texan way of doing things has spread like a virus.

 

[Piratical]

this anti-spanish forum makes me laugh a lot

Anti-spanish? Not one person has mentioned Contador's native country. This is about a specific rider, not the country he calls home.

 

[Anonymous]

It's a serious stretch to accuse AS of rider error. The replays don't show Andy hitting his shifters prior to this incredibly bad timed mechanical.

Contador may not have known exactly what happened, but you can be sure he knew Andy had SOME KIND of mechanical, and he attacked out of desperation. Stopping and waiting is too much to ask, but unleashing a searing attack at that moment? No class, no respect, he needs to lose that jersey.

Go tell his DS, he disagrees with you and is a little closer to the action than are you.

 

[ericthesportsman6]

I have never seen a non-race thread grow so rapidly in posts

 

[Biological Entity]

And let me also add that if I were AC and I were at the back when my main competitor attacked me, when I went by him struggling with his pedals, I would have thought "Sucks for you." Maybe it is "sporting" to attack when Andy did, but it was a bit of a weasel move, and one good turn deserves another IMO.

Can someone tell this guy why positioning is a key part of the sport and totally different? I am so embarrassed for him. Not even diehard AC fanboys are making such a silly point.

 

[nowhereman]

The taste of cheap success.

Nothing, and you know it. NOTHING is cheap at the Tour.