The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[The Crusher]

Explain your logic. What confirms that he was the stronger rider? Is it because he cut the deficit before the summit?

Yes. He rode uphill faster than Alberto, at at time when Alberto (according to his own testimony) was on the attack, trying to put time into Andy.

 

[michaeld]

Contador is sure to face a bigger test from the enraged Schleck on the road to Pau tomorrow, but will perhaps take consolation from the thoughts of some respected Tour veterans. Asked for their opinion on the incident, Laurent Jalabert, Bernard Thévenet and Bernard Hinault all described Schleck's incident as an inescapable part of racing and said they were looking ahead to see how Contador and Schleck will

The Badger said it is racing. Good enough for me.

 

[Piratical]

. . . at at time when Alberto (according to his own testimony) . ..

Wow, they actually swore him in? Those post-race interviews are getting brutal.

 

[Hugh Januss]

An even littler-known fact - it's a Huffy-branded Serotta...

Hampsten's bike that he won the Giro on was actually built by John Slawta, so that makes it a Landshark/Serotta/Huffy.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

 

[Blakeslee]

I don't think the comparison between what happened on today's stage and what happened on the cobblestone stage is entirely valid. On the cobblestones the most important think for a rider to do is to be at the front going into the cobbled section in part to reduce the risk of getting caught behind a crash. Andy Schleck ended up at the front not just by pure luck but because Saxo was drilling the pace at the front going into the cobblestones and had Schleck perfectly positioned at the front. Contador and others were caught behind the crash in part because they and their teams were not aggressive enough in getting them into the right position for the cobbles.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So is anyone going to try to dispute this?

After Andy got back on his bike, he went up the hill FASTER than Alberto!

Doesn't that answer one question?

So?

Was the finish line on top of the mountain.....no.

The amount of time Andy lost with his chain was what he lost on the stage, approx 40 secs. They would have finished with each other.

 

[Nickbeam]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/menchov-focused-on-contador-didnt-know-about-schleck
come on Denis, i believe in you!

 

[Elagabalus]

Alberto Contador is quite simply the finest man who ever breathed!!!

I love these threads!!

 

[Barrus]

But that has absolutely nothing to do with a GC. Same as in Paris-Roubaix: someone gets a mechanical, too bad. But that's a one-day race, not one with cumulative time at the end of 3 weeks. That's why they have the 'if you crash within 3km of the end of a flat stage you get the same time' rule, because it is widely perceived as unfair to decide a GC on luck, and although you can't limit all situations of bad luck (eg. Vino's crash with 20km to go early in the 2007 tour), that rule helps in a situation where most nervous crashes occur. Losing a sprint due to a skipped chain = bad luck. Getting attacked on a climb due to a lost chain = bad luck that could have been mitigated by opponents behaving in a sportsmanlike way.

Than how about the green jersey?
Or Pineau a few days back with the polka dots, as Pineau was having trouble Charteau attacked and took a lot of mountain points
The question is where do you draw the line?

 

[ManInFull]

More likely: When AC wins the Tour in a week's, AS fans will say it was because of Schleck's mechanical.

AC only avoids this by dropping AS tomorrow or Thursday and taking out 2+ minutes on him during the TT.

 

[Biffins]

Official tweets so far that I found. Post more if you see them.


andykloedi

Bad luck for @andy_schleck He had technical problems. Was'nt à nice Move from Alberto on this moment. But this is cycling now :-(



andy_schleck

I lost yellow today!**** happens but the race is not over yet!!!I be back!


CadelOfficial

Tough #TdF stage: Mad fast start. Ale 3rd from the break. ASchleck had a very untimely mechanical-know how it feels ('09 Vuelta).

 

[theswordsman]

I slept through the stage today, and won't pass judgment based on a 30 second video. Earlier in the race (Stag 2?), Contador was in a group with Armstrong and others with other dangerous riders ahead, but Contador heard that Schleck had a problem behind, and insisted against some argument that the group wait.

On Stage 2, Cancellara declared the stage neutral. On Stage 3, on the pave, Cancellara led Schleck on a mad chase to put time into Alberto and others. Someone ran into Contador's rear wheel and broke a spoke. The rear brake rubbed, and it got increasingly worse over the thirty kilometers. He couldn't stand up to pedal, and he ended up losing time on his own chase group at the end. He said afterward that he couldn't stop to change the wheel or he would have lost even more time.

Schleck gained a minute and thirteen seconds on Contador that day. It's the reason he has been in the yellow jersey at all, after finishing 42 seconds behind Contador in the Prologue. I don't know about shifting on a climb, and if a Schleck mistake caused the dropped chain. But keep his behavior on Stage 3 in mind before you pass judgment on this one.

 

[The Crusher]

So now that I've dispatched the myth that Alberto would've caught Andy, let's take a look at the notion that this was rider error.

On this one, I fully admit I'm out of my depth, and will simply try to direct the discussion.

In this video: http://www.cyclingfans.com/node/1111
When the wheel hops at around -0:42, you see the idler go from well-extended, to fully retracted.

And, at around -0:07, you can see him trying to shift with his right hand, exactly when the incident occurs. (And after it happens, you can see him desperately trying to use his left hand to get the front derailer to get the chain to magically remount itself).

So, based on this what can the experts tell us about what happened? Was he trying to shift up or down? Did he accidentally shift down when he wanted up? Did he downshift off of the lowest gear? If so, would that be his fault, or the mechanics? Can you estimate what gear he was in from the idler position before the crash? Was it just an ill-timed shift, with too much pressure in the drive train to expect it to handle that shift?

Discuss.

 

[ManInFull]

Alberto Contador is quite simply the finest man who ever breathed!!!

I love these threads!!

What's interesting is the cultural context to it. I am in Luchon and was at the awards ceremony when Contador was booed. The boos largely came from Americans and some French. The Spaniards were cheering like crazy. It still goes back to Contador not connecting to English speaking fans.

 

[The Crusher]

How can you be sure of what cog he was on before the incident? Are there no failure modes that would cause the chain to jump across a few cogs?

 

[ManInFull]

I don't understand why AC should have to wait AS. ok, I agree AC should have shown class if he did, but there was a lot at stake. Nobody was waiting AC on stage 3 when he lost 1:30 or so to crash he didn't cause. AC did stopped for a while, but how could he know what happened to Andy and how long it will last to solve the problem, it could have lasted for ages, while Sanchez and Munchov are gaining advantage on both of them. Of course Andy would say he would wait for him... yeh. In Belgium he gained some advantage due to mechanical problems, I didn't read he apologized for that. That's part of the sport, it's in any other why cycling is different.

It's just some "unwritten rule" crap that is followed if you want everyone to like you. I suspect that AC isn't going to cry about it if he has a mechanical and AS chooses to attack. It happens..

 

[nowhereman]

It's amazing that people are going out of their way to justify Contador.

No it's not. They get the point. It's a RACE. Not an etiquette contest. Where your skirt somewhere else.

 

[ianclark]

Completely agree with Blakeslee post... AC is flat out lying. Just to emphasize, AC was maybe 20 meters back, Vinokourov held his cruising speed, AC gave it full gas as he went by, pulling Sanchez and Menchov with him. The opposite of his story to the press.

I understand the desire to win. What makes this incident ugly is Contador's lack of character in not being honest enough to say that he took full advantage of what happened. Sad.

 

[Marva32]

After reviewing the footage again, Contador was in front of Menchov and Sanchez, and looked back 2-3 times over his shoulder at Shleck, after having come from a bit behind. Further, Contador was at least 2 bike-lengths ahead of Menchov and Sanchez when he jumped out of the saddle and started attacking. Contador's statement that he was just following Menchov and Sanchez just does not fit the facts. I'm not certain that Contador knew exactly what happened to Shleck, but since he was so far behind when the mechanical happened, and when he then looked back a couple times before attacking, it seems probable that he knew what was going on and intentionally took advantage of the situation.

While I can respect Contador's ability on the bike, I lack respect for his personality on the bike.

 

[Piratical]

What's interesting is the cultural context to it. I am in Luchon and was at the awards ceremony when Contador was booed. The boos largely came from Americans and some French. The Spaniards were cheering like crazy. It still goes back to Contador not connecting to English speaking fans.

So the majority of the people at the awards ceremony today were Americans?

 

[dancing on pedals]

at the end of the day Contador did his fair share of waiting when schleck crashed on the 2nd stage - if he had overridden Cancellara's patron status (which he could of easily done) Schleck would have been many minutes behind and not even a contender.
It is called a bike race and "unwritten rules" are exactly that - not precise, not logical and not followed all the time.
The fact is at the top of the climb Schleck was around 15 seconds back - he lost his jersey due to the efforts of Sammy and Denny not Contador on the descent; and in all fairness his inability to descend better than his closest rivals
thanks

 

[phlatties]

8 seconds. it's a fight. it's a hard event. it's not always fair. luck is not always good.

would you be man enough to punch back or would you cry about gettin hit in the face? lots of man panties gettin twisted here.

make like shleck and MOVE ON. he's gotta a race he's trying to win. I personally like both for what they have brought to the race this year. excitement. I guess the tissues are in the back for all you ladies who'll be crying foul all the way to Paris. I imagine AS/AC won't be.

 

[Anonymous]

Educate yourself on Tour de France tradition. It is an integral part of what makes the race great. Until today, not attacking the yellow jersey during a mechanical was a fairly well respected tradition in the peloton.

Of course you mean up until Schlecklet didn't wait for Chavanel...Oh wait, you don't have to under Roman numeral VII, subsection 3 of the "warmfuzzies History of Tour Protocol" where if you don't think the yellow has a chance for the overall...

 

[Piratical]

What makes this incident ugly is Contador's lack of character in not being honest enough to say that he took full advantage of what happened. Sad.

That's what I said earlier - feel exactly the same way. Not waiting can be defended, but lying about it afterwards makes it clear that he has his own moral issues with what he did.