The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[WonderLance]

Let. It. Die.

No..

Berty has a history of dumb moves to go against the ancient traditions of cycling which historians date back to at least 1999. Last year he attacked his team leader, this year he attached while Andrew whats giving his bike a service.

He has a lot to learn. This TDf is tainted. Only Lance will ride out of this tour a hero.

 

[Publicus]

No..

Berty has a history of dumb moves to go against the ancient traditions of cycling which historians date back to at least 1999. Last year he attacked his team leader, this year he attached while Andrew whats giving his bike a service.

He has a lot to learn. This TDf is tainted. Only Lance will ride out of this tour a hero.

Give it to them Wonderlance. He attacked himself last year.

 

[MKirilenko]

[..]Only Lance will ride out of this tour a hero.[..]

LMAO! As a fail-hero u meant.
Damn, where those kind of lunatics come from...

 

[spanky wanderlust]

Did they ever give him the same time? I thought the problem was from 30k out, which means he might have come in 3 minutes ahead of Cancellara without the excess friction.

Where did I bash Berto? Surely we can discuss race tactics without getting overly sensitive about it.

after 2000+ posts you should know better!

 

[LaBici]

No..

Berty has a history of dumb moves to go against the ancient traditions of cycling which historians date back to at least 1999. Last year he attacked his team leader, this year he attached while Andrew whats giving his bike a service.

He has a lot to learn. This TDf is tainted. Only Lance will ride out of this tour a hero.

you are so wrong. Alberto was the leader last year not LA. And as forvstage 16 all riders are on AC's side. The racecwas on and no dishonour to Alberto.

By the way last year LA and Jb treated AC badly. He prevailed.

 

[WonderLance]

you are so wrong. Alberto was the leader last year not LA. And as forvstage 16 all riders are on AC's side. The racecwas on and no dishonour to Alberto.

By the way last year LA and Jb treated AC badly. He prevailed.

LA was the leader, he said so. To deny it is to go against a great champion which is a dishonor to cycling.

Albert should have waited. Lance would have and lance knows how to win tours.

 

[MKirilenko]

LA was the leader, he said so. To deny it is to go against a great champion which is a dishonor to cycling.

Albert should have waited. Lance would have and lance knows how to win tours.

I will forget for a second that you act like a lunatic and remind you of sth Lance once said: "If we appear in Monte Carlo and Alberto is clearly the strongest, I will be the world's best domestique". Why wasnt he?
LA was never a leader in '09, he was weak as he is now, and he has never been a great champion, which hopefully will be shown to naive world soon.
ps. I'd love to see the expression on ur face, when the truth about LA is revealed

 

[rbcube520]

Sportsmanship

In a competition, it's not all winning! One has to show respect and sportmanship to his rival. Especially in this case where AS is the MJ!

 

[rbcube520]

Some people here should really start reading "Il principe" from Machiavelli.

Who cares about "class"? When was the last time a Tour was won with class?

1999-2005? Doped
2006? Doped
2007? Doped by Rasmussen. "Lucky" victory for Conti
2008? Lol
2009? Conti and Lance insulting each other all the time like little kids. Mostly just Lance though.

Yeah, class and Tour de France don't go well together. Who needs doping when you can just break all the unwritten rules in the Tour and gain a lot of seconds by doing so? I'd rather risk breaking these unwritten rules then risk getting caught with doping.

...if you don't care, we care!!

 

[Rob_Roy]

In a competition, it's not all winning! One has to show respect and sportmanship to his rival. Especially in this case where AS is the MJ!

I actually think that Contador showed the jersey great respect.

He took it so no Infidels could touch it.Cant be more respect than that.

After the race,due to his friendship to Andy he apologized,and thats just to show Andy great respect as well.

He therefor showed both the rider and the Jersey respect.

 

[rbcube520]

Nope. He should not have waited. Maybe Andy was tired and pulled that stunt on purpose. I don't know. I posted in another thread about the fact that this is racing and sh!t happens. I know others feel this way. MJ or not, patron or not, supreme being or not, all is fair in love and war and sport. I feel like this whole sportsmanship and etiquette thing is as bad as political correctness and just keeps getting worse. Nope, he should not have waited. Keep on truckin until you see that 1km to go banner and then pedal even harder.

It's not a war! It's a competition!! Where are your values?!!! Would you be smart enough to digest that AC tainted this race with an unethical move for the rest of his life, even beyond his life??? This will be re-broadcast, revived, reminisced, revisited and, rewritten for generation to generation forever!!!!

 

[rbcube520]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T66LLvqgZS4 OH Really?

i don't think you understand the ethics of waiting! the one you posted in the youtube is that lance is MJ. with contador's case, he should have waited for AS, yellow jersey wearer, to challenge mano-a-mano with the MJ. to take advantage of the MJ's mechanical trouble appeared cowardish act of el pistelero....

 

[LugHugger]

It's not a war! It's a competition!! Where are your values?!!! Would you be smart enough to digest that AC tainted this race with an unethical move for the rest of his life, even beyond his life??? This will be re-broadcast, revived, reminisced, revisited and, rewritten for generation to generation forever!!!!

No. It won't. What was the gap between Schleck and the Contador group going over the top of the climb? 15 seconds? It was the descent which stretched the gap and enabled Contador to take the yellow. Schleck lost the MJ through poor gear selection and an inability to ride his bike downhill as well as his peers. The overwhelming majority opinion of past Tour winners and combatants now working as commentators is that Contador was not obliged by some unwritten code of conduct to wait given the circumstances. It is only the armchair riders and plebs that are outraged. Contador will win this Tour by over one minute (in all likelihood 2 minutes or more) entirely negating Monday's incident as a deciding factor in who wears the MJ in Paris.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok guys. So here it is.

Alberto Contador is an amazing rider, better overall than Schleck and atleast his equal in the mountains. So he deservedly won the last 4 GTs he entered and will this year as well.

Alberto Contador would have won this Tour whether he waited for Schleck or not.

Alberto Contador is an *** who eats babies for lunch and kicks his opponents while they're down, doesn't pay any attention to team orders or anyone else. He only cares about himself and will do anything to win.

That just about sums it up. Now close this thread.

 

[SilentAssassin]

No. It won't. What was the gap between Schleck and the Contador group going over the top of the climb? 15 seconds? It was the descent which stretched the gap and enabled Contador to take the yellow. Schleck lost the MJ through poor gear selection and an inability to ride his bike downhill as well as his peers. The overwhelming majority opinion of past Tour winners and combatants now working as commentators is that Contador was not obliged by some unwritten code of conduct to wait given the circumstances. It is only the armchair riders and plebs that are outraged. Contador will win this Tour by over one minute (in all likelihood 2 minutes or more) entirely negating Monday's incident as a deciding factor in who wears the MJ in Paris.

Wrong. Schleck lost the MJ due to a mechanical mishap, not because he can't descend with his peers The mechanical mishap allowed Contador to follow Sanchez, a superior descender and extend the time gap. If Schleck didn't have the mechanical mishap, he would of been able to follow Sanchez with Contador and not lose any time. Additionally the mechanical mishap forced Schleck to use a lot of energy to close the distance before the descent...which obviously didn't help him in the descent as well.

Even if Contador wins by 2 minutes, it doesn't mean Schleck would have lost even if the mechanical mishap didn't happen, because the circumstances, and strategies employed would be completely different if Schleck still wore yellow. We will never know what would happen if AC stuck with the tradition of sportsmanship in the TDF and didn't attack Andy/MJ on a mechanical.

 

[easytiger]

I'm out training with some mates - I have a stack, they wait, I puncture, they wait, I overshift or get chainsuck and I grind to a halt, they say what a tool!

Admittedly it didn't look great on TV, but assuming Bertie wasn't fully aware what the problem was, Sanchez or Menchov who were behind him obviously saw what happened but didn't stop, so why should he.

What is Bertie supposed to do if someone sneezes, slow down and pass them his hanky?

 

[chairvelo]

Contador is being disingenuous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcN2HrkrnF4

Seconds 37-41, about 20 seconds after the incident - Contador looks across the valley (he had just taken the next left hander U bend) to see where Schleck is.

He looks sideways across the valley, twice, for several seconds - you can actually see him do a double take looking in different spots.

You can see the exact spot he is at when he looks because in both the shot from behind Schleck and in front of Contador there is a grey car and a white van. He had a clear view of the incident.

He knew Schleck had a problem. And yet he kept pumping.

That is quite dishonourable.

 

[MKirilenko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcN2HrkrnF4

Seconds 37-41, about 20 seconds after the incident - Contador looks across the valley (he had just taken the next left hander U bend) to see where Schleck is.

He looks sideways across the valley, twice, for several seconds - you can actually see him do a double take looking in different spots.

You can see the exact spot he is at when he looks because in both the shot from behind Schleck and in front of Contador there is a grey car and a white van. He had a clear view of the incident.

He knew Schleck had a problem. And yet he kept pumping.

That is quite dishonourable.

Ur absolutely right, except that after he saw twice AS, he STOPPED the full attack, thats why Menchov and Sanchez caught him, and they started to pull and AC sat on Mechovs wheel.
Besides, why are we still talking about it? Didnt AS said its ok now, and you should all get over it and stop whining, booing etc

 

[ManInFull]

Wrong. Schleck lost the MJ due to a mechanical mishap, not because he can't descend with his peers The mechanical mishap allowed Contador to follow Sanchez, a superior descender and extend the time gap. If Schleck didn't have the mechanical mishap, he would of been able to follow Sanchez with Contador and not lose any time. Additionally the mechanical mishap forced Schleck to use a lot of energy to close the distance before the descent...which obviously didn't help him in the descent as well.

Even if Contador wins by 2 minutes, it doesn't mean Schleck would have lost even if the mechanical mishap didn't happen, because the circumstances, and strategies employed would be completely different if Schleck still wore yellow. We will never know what would happen if AC stuck with the tradition of sportsmanship in the TDF and didn't attack Andy/MJ on a mechanical.

Wishful thinking. AS still would have been required to get 1+ minutes on AC on Tourmalet. That strategy would not have changed.

The mechanical is an afterthought if AC wins by more than 39 seconds, which is what he gained in stage 15.

 

[Hawkwood]

Ur absolutely right, except that after he saw twice AS, he STOPPED the full attack, thats why Menchov and Sanchez caught him, and they started to pull and AC sat on Mechovs wheel.
Besides, why are we still talking about it? Didnt AS said its ok now, and you should all get over it and stop whining, booing etc

To use a Cavendish term Contador didn't look as if he was going `full gas' at all on the climb after the incident. What was the gap over the top 20s? AS lost 40s getting his chain back on, plus lost of momentum on the climb, but made most of this up before the top. Would he have done so if Contador really was going for it?

 

[ManInFull]

No..

Berty has a history of dumb moves to go against the ancient traditions of cycling which historians date back to at least 1999. Last year he attacked his team leader, this year he attached while Andrew whats giving his bike a service.

He has a lot to learn. This TDf is tainted. Only Lance will ride out of this tour a hero.

LanceFanboy, AC WAS the leader of the team last year. If Lance had been all about team, he would have made it clear that he was working for AC. Fights happen when more than rider wants to be the leader. That is part of the history of the TdF. Versus simply decided to show everything from Lance's perspective. Lance wanted to be the leader based on his PAST HISTORY. Why would any confident, strong rider agree to that?

 

[ManInFull]

LA was the leader, he said so. To deny it is to go against a great champion which is a dishonor to cycling.

Albert should have waited. Lance would have and lance knows how to win tours.

Since AC has won 4 GTs and a 5th one is close at hand, he must know how to do something right...

You clearly get a kick out of writing things that you know are simply ridiculous. AC was the leader of that 2009 team. I believe that AC's number was 11, 21, or 31. He was definitely the rider on the team whose number ended in 1. Why did Mr. Armstrong not get that number??

LA is not going to leave the TdF as a hero. He's leaving as a rider who stayed around longer than he should have--just as Michael Jordan did. He should get on to raising funds for cancer and preparing to defend himself against blood-doping and fraud charges.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

You clearly get a kick out of writing things that you know are simply ridiculous.

It is called provocation and trolling. It is sometimes best simply not to respond.

Susan

 

[sublimit]

No..

Berty has a history of dumb moves to go against the ancient traditions of cycling which historians date back to at least 1999. Last year he attacked his team leader, this year he attached while Andrew whats giving his bike a service.

He has a lot to learn. This TDf is tainted. Only Lance will ride out of this tour a hero.

Andy started the attack but got detached from the attacking group, so its just a racing incident. The peleton sat up once when he crashed early in the tour, Then this time he threw his chain and Contador kept going.

Andrew has done quite well overall as he lost 30 seconds this time but gained 3 minutes on stage 3.

 

[Francois the Postman]

It is called provocation and trolling. It is sometimes best simply not to respond.

Susan

In WonderLance's case it is satire (and still best not responded to, but enjoyed for what it is).