Teams & Riders The official Egan Bernal is the new Egan Bernal thread

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At any rate, your haughty attitude in pointing out what clearly we the concerned for his wellbeing are evidently too emotionally weak to recognize, merely displays a callous self-righteousness. Guess what dude, we inferiors actually know measures need to be taken to prevent such horific insidence again. The first priority, however, is to show some simple human solidarity towards Egan and carefully chosen words,
Unfortunately, it seems like the worst time to have a discussion like this; when someone is in the hospital with severe injuries, is also the time when people are most likely to remember the need for such a discussion.
 
The truth is there is an ongoing discussion about the safety in the peloton. For years. The outcome is very little gets done about it.

The fact is this sport we all love is one of the most dangerous ones. It's hard to find any other sport with such high level of safety related incidents occurring. Rather big number being severe ones.

The thing that puzzles me the most is how can a team such as Ineos be so sloppy in this regard. It's like they took total disregard to all safety measures in this training camp.

And i am not talking about blame here. I am just wondering on why? Why was this needed? Why did they took such unnecessary risk and train in such dangerous environment in a discipline that is by itself a rather dangerous one. There was nothing to gain from it compared to applying the basic safety measures.
 
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Dec 22, 2021
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The truth is there is an ongoing discussion about the safety in the peloton. For years. The outcome is very little gets done about it.

The fact is this sport we all love is one of the most dangerous ones. It's hard to find any other sport with such high level of safety related incidents occurring. Rather big number being severe ones.

The thing that puzzles me the most is how can a team such as Ineos be so sloppy in this regard. It's like they took total disregard to all safety measures in this training camp.

And i am not talking about blame here. I am just wondering on why? Why was this needed? Why did they took such unnecessary risk and train in such dangerous environment in a discipline that is by itself a rather dangerous one. There was nothing to gain from it compared to applying the basic safety measures.
Couldn’t they just train tt on motor racing circuits? It would take a bit of planning but make it much safer
 
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The truth is there is an ongoing discussion about the safety in the peloton. For years. The outcome is very little gets done about it.

The fact is this sport we all love is one of the most dangerous ones. It's hard to find any other sport with such high level of safety related incidents occurring. Rather big number being severe ones.

The thing that puzzles me the most is how can a team such as Ineos be so sloppy in this regard. It's like they took total disregard to all safety measures in this training camp.

And i am not talking about blame here. I am just wondering on why? Why was this needed? Why did they took such unnecessary risk and train in such dangerous environment in a discipline that is by itself a rather dangerous one. There was nothing to gain from it compared to applying the basic safety measures.
I agree with the bolded part. Ineos for years talked about how no detail was too small etc. And now this, especially after they lost their last solid GC rider in...a training crash. You'd have thought that Ineos, of all teams, would not have let lightning strike twice, as they say.

I don't know about what safety measures you could add that would make a huge difference . Fact is, pros are always going to train on the road, and some are going to get hit. If you ride 10k kms a year in a developed area, it's going to happen.

I again was in the south of France for a work trip Thurs/Fri, and I saw both AG2R (man) and DSM (woman) riders going pretty fast on the corniche road west of Nice. That road is basically full of tourists looking at the ocean rather than the road, and swerving around cars that pull over at the last second for the view points. The potential for a cyclist getting whacked by a driver is really, really high. At least the tourists on e-bikes were all wearing fluorescent vests...
 
The thing that puzzles me the most is how can a team such as Ineos be so sloppy in this regard. It's like they took total disregard to all safety measures in this training camp.

And i am not talking about blame here. I am just wondering on why? Why was this needed? Why did they took such unnecessary risk and train in such dangerous environment in a discipline that is by itself a rather dangerous one. There was nothing to gain from it compared to applying the basic safety measures.
Of course there is no way of knowing, however, it appears as if the team simply didn't percieve the danger to be so great. From what others have said up thread possible reasons could be complacency with familiar roads, convenience in using that road (with other options possibly being much harder to reach?), a familiarity with danger syndrome, by which the more exposed to danger you become (in this case pros constantly living with it out on the roads) the less it is percedved as you kind of just get numb to it; an insidious concomitant chain of factors that could have made things condusive to an accidental disaster. Feel free to add to those factors, but that's what comes to mind.
 
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I don't know about what safety measures you could add that would make a huge difference . Fact is, pros are always going to train on the road, and some are going to get hit. If you ride 10k kms a year in a developed area, it's going to happen.
I don't agree with that. Such reasoning is one of the reasons on why things don't change for the better in regards to pro cycling safety. Sure accidents will always happen but saying nothing could be done in this case is in my opinion false. TT is a rather specific discipline in regards to safety and big teams like Ineos know that. On why they decided to remove sane safety protocols is beyond me.

Or the short version. Lets say it's a capital. Like Bogota, London, Tokyo ... Do not train TT in such area.

P.S. We can call it a capital rule.
 
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Doing that in that highway is suicide IMHO. I am just puzzled!
indeed
Now that we're getting the full background behind Egan's crash........ I ask WHY?
Why take such risks, specially on a damn TT bike , on a road with vehicles & full traffic? Egan well knows how traffic & drivers operate over there... so WHY take such risks? WHY put yourself in such risky scenario in the first place?

So by what has been described so far, it was Egan COLLIDING against the Bus, which was ahead of him and suddenly had to slow down or stop ......? and Egan simply couldn't react on time ...?
 
indeed
Now that we're getting the full background behind Egan's crash........ I ask WHY?
Why take such risks, specially on a damn TT bike , on a road with vehicles & full traffic? Egan well knows how traffic & drivers operate over there... so WHY take such risks? WHY put yourself in such risky scenario in the first place?
Good post… It‘s probably like it‘s often in such cases: you have done something for (in his case) about 15 years, have ridden far more than 100.000 kms of these roads, thousands of kms on the TT bike, and everything went well, nothing serious ever really happened. After this time, you probably are used to these risks, and don‘t see them with the view someone from outside has.

Potentially, it really can happen to anyone - even to an active Tour de France winner. Bernal, actually, rather has good bike handling skills; this time, however, he - sadly - had bad luck…
 
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Im sure everybody would like to turn back time right now, but we cant. A lot of us are frustrated how it could happen in the first place. There is nothing we can do more than learning from it and preventing it from happening again. I hope both pro riders and amateurs will think twice about training on busy roads where there is a lot of traffic.

Bernals career might be over as we know it, but at least he survived and is alive. He will have a lot of time left to do other great things in life. Whether he comes back to the pro peloton or not, is unknown. We can hope for the best, while he recovers.
 
Good post… It‘s probably like it‘s often in such cases: you have done something for (in his case) about 15 years, have ridden far more than 100.000 kms of these roads, thousands of kms on the TT bike, and everything went well, nothing serious ever really happened. After this time, you probably are used to these risks, and don‘t see them with the view someone from outside has.

Potentially, it really can happen to anyone - even to an active Tour de France winner. Bernal, actually, rather has good bike handling skills; this time, however, he - sadly - had bad luck…
While understand what you implied on your post as far as a Pro-Rider doing what needs to be done in order to stack up the kms & the workload while being unconsciously aware of the risks inherited within the profession, but In the case of Egan's accident, it was simply him acting reckless -yes I said it - reckless
 
While understand what you implied on your post as far as a Pro-Rider doing what needs to be done in order to stack up the kms & the workload while being unconsciously aware of the risks inherited within the profession, but In the case of Egan's accident, it was simply him acting reckless -yes I said it - reckless
What's reckless about it?! It was a bad accident, terrible, but it happens. Obviously he wasn't the only one training on those roads, he wasn't even the only one with a time trial bike. Maybe it's an accident that raises so much attention that people, teams, think about better ways and being more careful about these things, but at this point it can only be stated that it happened and that it's very sad, but thankfully not as sad as it could have been.
 
In the area where he was training was maybe one of the the worst parts of Colombia to be doing that. Autopista Norte or the Parallel road. If it is a rush hour then it is really bad. I am shocked that they were even training there. I would never put a wheel there with my bike. I understand that they had a car and moto accompanying them but still. It was a big risk.
 
What's reckless about it?! It was a bad accident, terrible, but it happens. Obviously he wasn't the only one training on those roads, he wasn't even the only one with a time trial bike. Maybe it's an accident that raises so much attention that people, teams, think about better ways and being more careful about these things, but at this point it can only be stated that it happened and that it's very sad, but thankfully not as sad as it could have been.


What business has a Pro-Bicycle Rider riding his TT bicycle around 60K an hour on a Highway/Expressway like that?
See, I was born in Bogota, grew up there, know the area, know the highways, know the traffic, know the drivers, know the risks, driven many times in and out of the city, etc. even up to this day, when awareness has grown around bicyclists & cycling in general, the rule of thumb for all cyclists that appreciate their lives is to NEVER EVER take Autopista Norte to ride in or out of the city. We always use La Calera via SOPO to go North or Cincunvalar to head South, So WHY a Pro like Egan & Co chose to do so? feeling "untouchable"? Invincible?
 
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All traffic issues aside and the debates over the nature of the road, there seems to be something else insidiously at work: the performance drive. The Pidcock interview has been mentioned in various contexts, but it could be the key to this accidental disaster. In the quest to diminish turbulence as much as possible, a rider assumes an ever more radical position; while beneficial in terms of lower drag, compromises vision. This is well known, but seems only partly the issue. The computers are the other. Froome was often criticized for staring down too much at his computer. It was a frequent point of contention for its risibleness. Yet here it could be of vital concern. So if Bernal must assume a radical riding possition, because the science of aerodynamics demands it; he must also keep his eye on the computer numbers, because required by the science of performance physiology. The combination of factors likely caused the perfect storm.

Perhaps Ineo's greatests sin, therefore, was not foreseeing the potential for disaster to stike by simulating a TT under such conditions on that highway (however commonly it is done). Riders have to assume those positions and, equally important, they have to pay attention to their numbers on the computer. It's what they're paid to do. But the quest for performance and use of the technology may be a double-edged sword for the teams, because it has now come at too high a price. The teams will surely take note of this. As it's unlikely in the future that we will see TT practice being done within the immediate urban sphere, unless on closed circuits. Yet the problem during races is still very real (with turns, road traffic, fans, barriers, police, pulled over cars and motor cycles, etc). So maybe the UCI should step in, as they so often have done for much more trivial matters, and set limits on a rider's TT position; but also and importantly on how long at a time a rider can look down at a computer during a race (kind of like the drafting rule per seconds), to ensure a heads-up, looking ahead comportment? I'd even be for banning the computers during TTs altogether (actually during all races), but I'm old school.
 
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While understand what you implied on your post as far as a Pro-Rider doing what needs to be done in order to stack up the kms & the workload while being unconsciously aware of the risks inherited within the profession, but In the case of Egan's accident, it was simply him acting reckless -yes I said it - reckless
Why are you placing this solely on Bernal's shoulders? Ineos surely had a say in where the TT simulation took place. I'll bet this was not the first time they did this on that road. We likely only heard about it this time because of the disaster. Was he being "reckless" all the other times too?

If being reckless is the issue every time pros train for high intensity descending, because if they don't they will surely get dropped going down mountains in the races, they are being "reckless." And during the races themselves? They are often on the very edge, not by choice but necessity as circumstance dictates. And in any case, the way you are using reckless means "intent." When a-hole motorists are zig-zagging in and out of traffic on the freeway at high speed, with no concern for others on the road, thats being reckless. By contrast, Bernal certainly wasn't violating any code of conduct with intent to be heedless. Bernal crashed because he didn't see the bus, for other reasons, not because he was being wreckless. So enough with the "reckless" issue already. Having said that, it's obvious the road was to be avoided.
 
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What business has a Pro-Bicycle Rider riding his TT bicycle around 60K an hour on a Highway/Expressway like that?
See, I was born in Bogota, grew up there, know the area, know the highways, know the traffic, know the drivers, know the risks, driven many times in and out of the city, etc. even up to this day, when awareness has grown around bicyclists & cycling in general, the rule of thumb for all cyclists that appreciate their lives is to NEVER EVER take Autopista Norte to ride in or out of the city. We always use La Calera via SOPO to go North or Cincunvalar to head South, So WHY a Pro like Egan & Co chose to do so? feeling "untouchable"? Invincible?
If that's the highway, it looks as if the buses are in a reserved lane for themselves. If that's the case they don't pull over from the car lanes, which doesn't seem possible anyway with the low barrier, but just stop there to pick up and drop off passangers. Nor can the cars ride in the bus lane, they don't mingle. If the bus lane were free, riders would be safe. In this shot, however, we have two buses relatively close to eachother. Yet there must be long intervals in which there are no buses, otherwise there wouldn't be enough free road to simulate a TT. You'd need at least 10 k of unobstruckted lane to get any benefit from doing a TT session there. No?
 
I really believe he'll be back strong. Cyclists are tough as nails and Bernal is one of the toughest of them all. He'll be back.
You realize though, that an elite athlete’s capability to return to top form from femur fractures and knee joint damage will depend on more factors than their toughness? Among other things, their Body mechanics may be changed and connective tissue may remain weaker. Wishing for the best though.
 
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It's a question of some damn humility and empathy for one's plight. And it's an issue of class in one's reaction to it, of which you have zero. Your arrogance and haughtiness is vile - oh Zoef-Lightning is here to make us all aware of the need for prevention! Well guess what Sherlock that's no mystery. To the bolded, no, before Bernal, right now it is more important to express first compassion for his personal drama (and here your insensitivity is appalling). It's called pietas. Besides the two are not mutually exclusive. In other words, but has this ever occured to your blockheaded mentatlity, it is quite possible to feel both empathy and a need for greater prevention.

Not only did you show no empathy, but were crass in pointing out, according to you, that Bernal (and Rivera) brought it upon himself. And you now claim the moral high ground. Pathetic. At any rate, your exalted attitude in pointing out what clearly we the concerned for his wellbeing are evidently too emotionally weak to recognize, merely displays a callous self-righteousness. Guess what dude, we inferiors actually know measures need to be taken to prevent such horrific incidents again. The first priority, however, is to show some simple human solidarity towards Egan and carefully chosen words, Saying Bernal was responsible for his own damage is the antithesis.
Your comments are getting more and more hysterical. No word on the content. Not a word about irresponsible cycling behaviour.
Again, is Bernal responsible for his own crash ? You seem to be insinuating that it was an ordinary accident, pure bad luck.
Is it justifiable that, if Bernal later goes back to road training, with the same carelessness, that he is endangering others and himself.
As I wrote before, Pidcock had the right analysis. Pidcock at the age of 22 is far more intelligent than you are.
I hope one thing, that Bernal and others will finally realize that they are not alone on the open road. And that cycling on a busy public road with time trial bikes is actually not justifiable.
 
I certainly hope you are right. But what makes you say Egan Bernal in particular is one of the toughest of them all? What makes Egan stand out from other GC contenders in that regard?
I think GC riders in general are the toughest type of road cyclists. Their lifestyle demands the most sacrifices all year long. They need to be attentive and go all out basically every stage of a multi day race, while all the other riders can have multiple days off. They've learnt how to suffer the most during races.

As for Bernal...well, he is one of the best GC riders in the world which automatically makes him one of the toughest riders in my view. Then if you also consider that he excels in tough conditions, rain and cold, where the majority of riders suffer the most and if you take into account how he reacts to adversity and setbacks (in 2018 he injuried himself in a crash in Catalunya, a month later comes back strong in Romandie and in July in the Tour. Then crashes quite heavily again in San Sebastian, but comes back and next season wins the Tour. Then in 2020 he has problems with a back injury which forces him to DNF the Tour, but comes back next year and wins the Giro.)

Oh yeah, he is tough.
 

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