I guess no real need for Strava data. Just checking his medical information. It confirms Bernal was likely in an aero position maxing out. All in all it was a proper TT training session. Likely near Rogličes level.
Chapeau.
Chapeau.
But of course not responsible on that kind of public roads by not looking at the horizon.
Bernal did a huge mistake. He only injured himself now. But he could have just hit a child or elder at more than 30 miles per hour.
.
- Mar 10, 2009
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I think we understand your position by now.
- Jan 31, 2016
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Plating a femur pretty much stablizes it unless he tenderized the muscle in the process. Hell, NFL linemen have continued to play with broken femurs. It wasn't a compound fracture was it? I can't keep up with things lately.
- Jan 31, 2016
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Oh f*ck! He's lucky he didn't fatally break his neck. Sorry I saw that.
- Sep 8, 2015
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Back riding already? Either that or someone borrowed his head-unit.
This has now disappeared off his feed.
This has now disappeared off his feed.
- Nov 16, 2013
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Back riding already? Either that or someone borrowed his head-unit.
This has now disappeared off his feed.
Of course he isn't back riding already...
- May 5, 2010
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He strapped his wheelchair after someone else.
It's known on how a TT training session looks like and what is involved. Hence whoever put Bernal in such environment did a mistake. In general there are two possible explanations for that. A cyclist did a solo TT training ride and has put himself in such position. Like you are claiming. Or the team was involved and has put a cyclist in such position in the first place.
As for that "child or elder remark". There is likely a much bigger chance to hit a child or an elder on a more suitable public road for TT training. Hence here i don't agree with you. TT training sessions should still in my opinion take place on suitable public roads. Moving that to some private roads would in my opinion be a bit too much.
I was attacked by some because I had made a clear analysis based on facts . The facts were there, but some kept claiming that Bernal hadn't made a mistake. It was "an accident". Now that the images are there, everyone is suddenly convinced of the opposite. What I want is a change of mentality among training professional cyclists and cycling tourists. Now there are far too many who ignore the traffic rules and the safety rules.
- Apr 16, 2009
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Why is Bernal walking??? This is stressing me out!!!
- Sep 2, 2011
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I don't think this is the right place to lobby for it if this is really what you want.
Stunning to see Bernal already on his feet. Long road ahead of him but he's already fighting.
Indeed, Bernal is a lucky man. There was a very good chance that this was the end of his career. But he gets a second chance. After his back problems in 2020, and now his serious injuries, he is now in danger of already losing two seasons. Although he won the Giro last year, Bernal will certainly not be the grand winner as predicted almost three years ago after his Tour victory.
- Mar 17, 2009
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yep,
some folks here lost their minds when I called it out early as Egan being RECKLESS .....
his own fault without a doubt
having stated that, I wholeheartedly wish him a speedy recovery & be able to resume his life without any side effects caused by the crash- perhaps getting back on the bicycle when the time is right (assuming his injuries weren't as severe as initially reported, given that he's already walking & moving freely.. )
- Nov 16, 2013
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There is a time and a place for everything. Right after a very serious accident is not the time to accuse the injured for his recklessness. It's just not very tasteful whether or not the criticism might hold its merits. Especially if the injured is a well-liked character, you will face a stiff headwind with such talk.
- Jan 8, 2020
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Look, I think your reasoning on this is ludicrous and peurile, in addition to offensive to Bernal. You claim ownership of the "facts," but have no sense of their context (certainly not me), without which facts are meaningless.
Once again the contingent circumstances upon which the crash was determined aren't recognized, obsessed as you are with casting sole blame on Bernal for his supposed irresponsibility. A more reasoned analysis, however, recognizes that the choice of road was certainly not entirely his, but decided in agreement with the team (which should have put a scout on a motorcycle ahead alerting to any danger). Secondly, performance science today demands that a rider assumes an ever lower and tucked aerodynamic position, at the expense of vision, which includes keeping the head down to reduce drag as much as possible, exacerbated by the fact of having to monitor their numbers on the computer.
None of this was Bernal's fault, but it did place him at greater risk. His only real responsibility, therefore, was to ride like that with total commitment, because team investments in him and performance science require so and it has to be practiced out on the road to simulate race conditions. The stealth look of today tests a rider's capacity to hold the optimal position to the limit, which comes at great expense in terms of environmental awareness. And this fact shifts a fair bit of the burden of responsibility away from the rider in Bernal's case, to external forces imposed on him by science and technology (and sponsorship investing in them). Pidcock's (and now Froome's) concerns arise from this, not some featherbrained understanding. Naturally this makes your comment about Pidcock being a lot smarter then me utterly laughable, since you didn't even understand his intention. The point is, and the one Pidcock was making, is that this wouldn't have happened in the sport 30 years ago. You needed help getting it, so I've spelled it out for you. Perhaps, therefore, it's time to reconsider the new praxis, rather than cast rash aspersions on someone sent to hospital.
It was the combination of these factors and an ill-fated stationary bus, whilst riding according to team plan in that "zone" of entranced fatigue, which led to the crash; not one man's "recklessness." To not see this is foolish. To then bombastically claim a self-important concern for rider safety, whilst showing no regard for the severity of Bernal's injuries (other than a conciliatory hope he heals after conceitedly criticizing him), doesn't make your statements any more appealing. At any rate, this is not the place to lobby for it and especially under your totally misdirected moral indignation.
In any case, solutions will involve reconsidering systemic approaches, not crass indictments against supposed single rider irresponsibility. Perhaps the UCI, therefore, should step in and mandate safer riding. If the idea of banning time trial bikes altogether seems too radical, then maybe it should put rigorous limitations on their geometry. Moreover, it should immediately ban the head down riding position on penalty of disqualification. Nobody would train that way anymore. Problem solved or at least greatly mitigated.
So at best we can be shocked and dismayed by Bernal's lack of awareness at a critical moment; but certainly not irritated over a nonexistent foolhardiness. Again he wasn't acting alone like some Joe Blow amateur trying to impress, but in fellowship with his team under work conditions. In other words, he was just doing his job when accident struck. But in almost every job related incident the employee is rarely entirely at fault because he's not without help. And this one doesn't even come close to qualifying.
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Armchair Cyclist
Moderator
- Mar 22, 2010
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No.
The first responsibility of any road user is to look where he/she is going. If there had been the outrider that you suggest that responsibility might have been mitigated, but there wasn't so it wasn't.
- Jan 8, 2020
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Agreed. Naturally it is of the first and highest order, and in a rider's best interest, to look up the road. It was a horrific mistake not to an the part of Bernal in the moments leading to the crash. However, there is a currently a big problem, which is the point I was trying to make. His mistake wasn't made independently of the external forces at work, namely his need to apply maximally the science of aerdynamics. So let's say his "natural responsibility" to look up the road came into conflict with his "performance responsibility" (a terrible predicament), which is what he is contracted and gets paid to do. Under team investment and direction he is required to practice holding his optimal low-drag time trial position throughout a simulated Tour effort. Pidcock's concerns were all about this unfortunate paradox in modern cycling: the imbalance between performance and safety. That is, being expected to handle ever more radical time trial positions and get the most performance benefit, while maintaing adequite control and environmental awareness.
For this reason I suggested the UCI establish new protocals, since, as Bernal's crash painfully attests, in today's cycling you can't expect a rider to give total commitment to the science of current time trial praxis and always be looking up the road at the same time. One excludes the other (without even taking into account errare humanum est), a terrible disaccord for riders paid to perform at the highest level. For this reason to call him "irresponsible" or "reckless," which implies willful intent without the help of external forces, is ludicrous and absurd.
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- Aug 4, 2014
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Glad to see Egan doing well. All the best for him on his recovery.
Also, again, Autopista Norte is actually of the best two roads for riding fast on the flat, the other one being 80 to El Rosal. Which is something that pros specifically need to train for, even more so when they are doing TT work. Not that I would ever ride a TT bike there, but I'm not a pro cyclist. Also, again, it seems like Bernal lives close by, as does Chaves and thousands of other cyclists. So it's really almost unavoidable for a lot of folks.
I also agree with you that Sopo via La Calera (and Patios) is the best way out of Bogota, though it's a bit hilly (again, Patios). But I have to say Circunvalar isn't all that great to ride on from a safety perspective. I mean it's also a bit up and down and quite nice when it's empty, but it's also topsy-turvy, there are no shoulders and cars go past pretty quick. It's a quick way to get to the El Verjon climb and it's also the main part of the circuit where Henao won the national title a few years ago but for my money the cicloruta on septima is the best way south. And the not-nearly-as nice-one on the NQS if you want to go really south (though to be honest I wouldn't do that without a local guide).
Again, I agree with you Autopista Norte isn't a great place to ride but think you're overstating things a bit. As I said before plenty of cyclists ride on the full-lane shoulders and the Vuelta a la Sabana from Caro to Belisario is probably the most popular route for roadies in the city. Also, I think that photo is the 153 bridge, which would mean there's an acesss road with a bike lane outside of the frame. Not that it matters all that much, unless your destination is on the Autopista you really should be off it by that point. And it rarely backs up quite like that outside the city bar for the afternoons on weekends and rarely for more that the 3 km between Bima and Caro. Yeah, that stretch blows chunks even when the traffic is light - it's the main reason I avoid that road. But a lot of cyclists ride there and it's not because they have some sort of death wish.What business has a Pro-Bicycle Rider riding his TT bicycle around 60K an hour on a Highway/Expressway like that?
See, I was born in Bogota, grew up there, know the area, know the highways, know the traffic, know the drivers, know the risks, driven many times in and out of the city, etc. even up to this day, when awareness has grown around bicyclists & cycling in general, the rule of thumb for all cyclists that appreciate their lives is to NEVER EVER take Autopista Norte to ride in or out of the city. We always use La Calera via SOPO to go North or Cincunvalar to head South, So WHY a Pro like Egan & Co chose to do so? feeling "untouchable"? Invincible?
Also, again, Autopista Norte is actually of the best two roads for riding fast on the flat, the other one being 80 to El Rosal. Which is something that pros specifically need to train for, even more so when they are doing TT work. Not that I would ever ride a TT bike there, but I'm not a pro cyclist. Also, again, it seems like Bernal lives close by, as does Chaves and thousands of other cyclists. So it's really almost unavoidable for a lot of folks.
I also agree with you that Sopo via La Calera (and Patios) is the best way out of Bogota, though it's a bit hilly (again, Patios). But I have to say Circunvalar isn't all that great to ride on from a safety perspective. I mean it's also a bit up and down and quite nice when it's empty, but it's also topsy-turvy, there are no shoulders and cars go past pretty quick. It's a quick way to get to the El Verjon climb and it's also the main part of the circuit where Henao won the national title a few years ago but for my money the cicloruta on septima is the best way south. And the not-nearly-as nice-one on the NQS if you want to go really south (though to be honest I wouldn't do that without a local guide).
- Apr 3, 2016
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This gets to the point 100%. I prefer Patios and Sopo because its safer, but the only chance we (amateurish bad cyclist) have of flat riding is going thorugh autopista - El Roble.
VALS going out trhough autopista is a very popular ride.
VALS going out trhough autopista is a very popular ride.
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