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Teams & Riders The official Egan Bernal is the new Egan Bernal thread

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I guess I just consider accident to be anything that wasn't done with purpose. Sometimes - quite frequently, I guess - accidents are just caused by lack of thinking.
I wouldn't even call it reckelessness in the same way it would be reckless to drive a quad bike down a skijumping slope (please do not attempt!), it was just... well... not realising that something was a possible consequence of an action. Because, was it really that foreseeable? TT training out on the roads is nothing new, most of the time nothing has happened. This one times, unfortunately, a bus stopped in front of a rider. In fact, you could even argue that it wouldn't even have mattered if he'd frequently been looking up to check that the road was clear, or even been looking up most of the time; he was looking down at the most critical moment.

Also, I still think that the most important concern in the Bernal thread is, well, Bernal. Sure, none of us - afaik - can actively do anything about his recovery, but we can still express worry, sympathy, and now even admiration: He's frikkin' back on a (stationary) bike already!
Exactly, so why don't they try to institute new protocals to mitigate the inherent perils of being a professional cyclist? Cycling, by nature, is "reckless." It is when bombing down a mountain at full speed, it is when fighting for position to launch a well timed sprint, likewise when (frequently) entering into that zone of extreme fatigue that hampers lucidity, which, in turn, can unintentionally lead to accidents.

An amatuer out on his/her 15,000 euro toy doing what Bernal did is reckless, a pro training a time trial for the Tour de France no. He has no choice but to place himself in the new radical position, whilst testing at once his resistence to fatigue and capacity to maintain lucidity. That's not being reckless in the context of what he is paid to do. It's called doing his job. The problem was that nobody in the sport or his team considered the ramifications, in terms of increasing the chances of accidents, of pursuing the science of performance to the maximum degree in the context of time trialing praxis. Thus Bernal's egregious mistake must be contextualized as a circumstantial error, which caused the accident, that was contingent upon professional and team demands and not on his shoulders alone. At the very minimum somebody from the team staff should have been on a motorcycle some 70 meters ahead in radio contact with Bernal alerting to immanent danger.

That this wasn't the case is doubtless because time trialing should be the "safest" discipline in the sport, right? No peleton, no chaotic scenarious, just one guy alone on his bike. What could go wrong? Surely now they will all have learned from this and new measures shall be taken.
 
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This situation is similar to as if parents would send their children to play football on a 4 lane road. It's rather easy to determine levels of responsibility for each party involved. In addition you can't say this things happen because nobody talks about them and parents in general don't know better.

But all in all *** happens. I am sure that all parties involved learned something. And it's time to move on. Just as Bernal has. If he could i am sure that we can too.
 
@Zoef-Lightning

IMHO it would be reckless if children would play on a (four) two lane road. Or if a group of elderly people would organize a bowling session over there. Still if somehow they would do that. In that case i still wouldn't go as far as you did, when talking about Bernal.
But children do, especially in those countrys. Someone else can always cross the street. And when you see Bernal's speed, without looking ahead .... totally irresponsible.
 
Top o'the morning to ya! Pure delirium. Curiously again you address none of the issues I've raised, but state the same derogatory nonsense over and over. And you are the one confused over the intention of Pidcock and Froome concerning the Bernal incident, not me. For it wasn't to criticize Bernal, but the modern demands of performance being in conflict with a rider's job safely. Indeed Froome went so far as to ponder whether or not it would be proper to ban time trial bikes althogether. So the more you keep on harping about it in continuous and total error, the more you look like a blockhead.

Now it has taken me a Philippic to try and clarify things for your rudimentary thinking, but alas it was all to no avail. I only see a conceited cycling enthusisast terstifying to nothing but self-rightious mumbo jumbo, without compunction or restraint. True, it's difficult to admit one's errors, but I asked myself was it really necessary to go this far?

Errare humanum est, perseverare autem diabolicum.

Cheerio!

PS: Addressing someone whilst the person is banned in the manner you did, is like punching someone with their hands tied. Weak.
So, why were you banned ?
In additon, you are completely beside the point. The discussion about training on a time trial bike, with such a body position, is completely justified. The experts agree that this is not responsible on public roads. And certainly not in an urban or heavily populated area. But this goes much further. This is about the totally irresponsible and dangerous riding/driving behavior of Bernal. As proven on the moving images. Whether this is on the bike, or in the car, or in a truck. By minimizing this, you yourself are part of the problem. I assume that you also think that Bernal (and you ?) should not follow priority rules, ride through the red traffic light, strum your mobile while cycling. What you see by many training cyclists. Proportionally much more than with normal road users. In which country do you live, where that is allowed or tolerated ?
"Errare humanum est. Perseverare diabolicum" ? "That's all about you" !
Like : "Asinus ad lapidem non bis offendit eundem".
And specially for you : "Beati pauperes spiritu" and "stultitia non habet nomen"
 
But children do, especially in those countrys. Someone else can always cross the street. And when you see Bernal's speed, without looking ahead .... totally irresponsible.

Those countries? You seem to imply Bernal was riding a TT bike through a slum.

In additon, you are completely beside the point. The discussion about training on a time trial bike, with such a body position, is completely justified. The experts agree that this is not responsible on public roads. And certainly not in an urban or heavily populated area.

I don't agree that the experts claim you must train TT on private roads to be considered safe. But OK, lets listen to the experts and agree to the gist of this one.

But this goes much further. This is about the totally irresponsible and dangerous riding/driving behavior of Bernal. As proven on the moving images. Whether this is on the bike, or in the car, or in a truck. By minimizing this, you yourself are part of the problem. I assume that you also think that Bernal (and you ?) should not follow priority rules, ride through the red traffic light, strum your mobile while cycling. What you see by many training cyclists. Proportionally much more than with normal road users. In which country do you live, where that is allowed or tolerated ?
"Errare humanum est. Perseverare diabolicum" ? "That's all about you" !
Like : "Asinus ad lapidem non bis offendit eundem".
And specially for you : "Beati pauperes spiritu" and "stultitia non habet nomen"

As we established that the position on the bike was not out of the ordinary. As for the speed i feel that we can assume it was normal and in accordance to a TT training ride and was likely not over the speed limit for such road.

And that leaves us with the gist of the problem. That is the selection of enviroment for training TT. If it had to be done in populated area then in my opinion the road from the video is still the most suitable one. But i do agree that here likely mistakes were made and TT training should be done in less populated area. Bernal likely had some influence over the decision but this was not some solo ride and in general hence such decisions are in the responsibility of the team.
 
Physique of a climber :). Good to read of his progress, if he can turn the pedals so soon that is cause for optimism, But obviously he has a long journey ahead.

Not sure if its been mentioned but when would Ineos start to get impatient with his recovery as they did prior to effectively unloading Froome via contract renegotiations? Business can be cruel.
Impatient with Froome? He was never going to get back to his old level because of his injuries and AGE! Also, they'd be crazy to match the money Froome is getting from Israel team.
 
So, why were you banned ?
In additon, you are completely beside the point. The discussion about training on a time trial bike, with such a body position, is completely justified. The experts agree that this is not responsible on public roads. And certainly not in an urban or heavily populated area. But this goes much further. This is about the totally irresponsible and dangerous riding/driving behavior of Bernal. As proven on the moving images. Whether this is on the bike, or in the car, or in a truck. By minimizing this, you yourself are part of the problem. I assume that you also think that Bernal (and you ?) should not follow priority rules, ride through the red traffic light, strum your mobile while cycling. What you see by many training cyclists. Proportionally much more than with normal road users. In which country do you live, where that is allowed or tolerated ?
"Errare humanum est. Perseverare diabolicum" ? "That's all about you" !
Like : "Asinus ad lapidem non bis offendit eundem".
And specially for you : "Beati pauperes spiritu" and "stultitia non habet nomen"
It's like I'm arguing with a drunkard. :D Absentem laedit, qui cum ebreo litigat. As others have pointed out there is no point in pursuing our discussion any further. I completely disagree with you and your indictment against Bernal, especially your means of expressing it, which as I've repeatedly stated is callous. That you presume to know that, like Bernal o_O, I don't think obeying traffic rules is all right only further demonstrates your hysteria. So take it easy on the bottle next time. Besides, Bernal wasn't violating any traffic regulations, so the point is irrelevant aside from stupid.

I'm part of the problem, aye? I'm minimizing the accident? I don't know which posts you've read to draw that conclusion, but unlike you I have offered ideas for solutions, whereas all I get from your diatribes is vitriol towards Bernal. I think it's evident to everyone here which poster has the Colombian's best interests at heart and cycling's, and it isn't you.

Ciao.
 
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Please just stop responding to that guy...

Long interview with Bernal on his crash, recovery and how he sees the way ahead.

He's quite realistic, saying he doesn't know when he'll be fully recovered and whether he'll ever be on the same level again (at the same time it seems there is no definite reason he couldn't reach the level again) and his spirit seems to be ok, though quite reflective in places.
 
I recently watched an IG video posted by Egan on PT session trying to kick a football...... That one truly revealed the severe damage caused by the crash he was limping while walking & getting assisted all times ........

I wholeheartedly wish him the best in his recovery - at least to be able to recover full mobility without any side effects.
Vamos EGAN
 
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It's like I'm arguing with a drunkard. :D Absentem laedit, qui cum ebreo litigat. As others have pointed out there is no point in pursuing our discussion any further. I completely disagree with you and your indictment against Bernal, especially your means of expressing it, which as I've repeatedly stated is callous. That you presume to know that, like Bernal o_O, I don't think obeying traffic rules is all right only further demonstrates your hysteria. So take it easy on the bottle next time. Besides, Bernal wasn't violating any traffic regulations, so the point is irrelevant aside from stupid.

I'm part of the problem, aye? I'm minimizing the accident? I don't know which posts you've read to draw that conclusion, but unlike you I have offered ideas for solutions, whereas all I get from your diatribes is vitriol towards Bernal. I think it's evident to everyone here which poster has the Colombian's best interests at heart and cycling's, and it isn't you.

Ciao.
Read your own posts again !

Incidentally, Bernal is one of my favorites. A nice boy. But that doesn't stop me from dealing objectively with the facts. You should do that too. Here it was clear that Bernal made a big mistake. He has now admitted this too. He had been lying flat on his bike for quite some time, just looking at his data. With a tailwind, he was driving faster and faster. As he described himself :
"I keep doing my interval and I remember that I was going 58 kilometers per hour. That is like throwing down and the wind is in your favor. I was going 58. I start looking and it was 59, 60, 61, 62, and it was when I saw that speed that I crashed into the bus.” I crashed into the bus at 62 kilometers per hour."

Luckily Bernal is sensible enough, unlike you, to see his mistake. He won't make that mistake again. Then this terrible self-inflicted accident caused a positive effect. Luckily you won't be able to change that.
 
Read your own posts again !

Incidentally, Bernal is one of my favorites. A nice boy. But that doesn't stop me from dealing objectively with the facts. You should do that too. Here it was clear that Bernal made a big mistake. He has now admitted this too. He had been lying flat on his bike for quite some time, just looking at his data. With a tailwind, he was driving faster and faster. As he described himself :
"I keep doing my interval and I remember that I was going 58 kilometers per hour. That is like throwing down and the wind is in your favor. I was going 58. I start looking and it was 59, 60, 61, 62, and it was when I saw that speed that I crashed into the bus.” I crashed into the bus at 62 kilometers per hour."

Luckily Bernal is sensible enough, unlike you, to see his mistake. He won't make that mistake again. Then this terrible self-inflicted accident caused a positive effect. Luckily you won't be able to change that.
Let it go.
 
Regarding Bernal's unvisible bus:
I can tell you, having spent a decent chunk of time in Colombia and S-America (we're talking years), that busses park / pop op / stop at the weirdest places.
As someone who took those buses quite a lot, it's always a bit of adrenaline and a relief when a big intercity bus, doing 90km/hr in traffic, decides (or not) to stop when you wave your hand next to a busy national road. Sometimes they stop in the middle of the street, sometimes they go to the side, sometimes they brake very hard, but I often saw the dangerous consequences this created for other traffic.

It's easy to ride a TT bike, look up for some seconds and only see either an open road, or a bus that just passed and is already 200 meters further...
5 seconds later, that bus can have stopped, or a bus has come out of a side road and immediately stops on the big road because they pick up passengers at that intersection.

Does that excuse Bernal not paying attention? No, to the contrary: he knew even better than me that this is standard stuff in Colombia, and that he should be very vigilant.
 
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That first aid sound amateurish, he basically said that when the doctor saw the femur popping out of the leg he took him from the waist with other two (that he doesn't know who they were and if they knew what they were doing) pulling his foot to fit the bone back in, all that on the road, without sedation and loosing more than two liters of blood in the process. And after that the ambulance wasn't coming and then when it came it was without even something to treat pain on it.

El doctor me dijo que no se podía y le pregunté por qué. Me miró la pierna y esa vaina se veía inflamada, hinchada. El hueso casi que quería salirse de la piel y dije: me fui de fémur. Obviamente estaba roto. Me ayudaron a quitar el pie de la bicicleta y el doctor estabilizó la fractura. Me cogió de la cintura y otras dos personas, no sé si eran doctores o sabían de medicina, le ayudaron bastante. Cogieron el pie y me estiraron. Acomodaron el hueso y me dolió muchísimo. Estaba que les decía: no, no, se los suplico, por favor no. Eso ayudó a que no perdiera tanta sangre, creo que perdí en total dos litros y medio. Esas pequeñas cositas que hicieron ayudaron para que cuando llegara al hospital no estuviera tan mal. En cierto punto, cuando estaba desesperado, le gritaba al doctor: doc, deme algo para dolor, necesito algo para el dolor, y el doctor decía: no, no puedo, y yo le decía: yo entiendo que no puede, pero deme algo, no importa, lo único por lo que estaba desesperado era por el dolor.

Muy frustrante porque no me dieron nada para el dolor. Y antes ocurrió algo muy chistoso. Escuché una sirena como de ambulancia y el doctor y todos me decían: Egan, ya viene la ambulancia, escúchala, y yo bueno, listo, ya va a llegar. Pero esa ambulancia siguió derecho, no venía para donde nosotros. Ya después llegó la nuestra y cuando se bajó la señora lo primero que le dije fue: por favor, deme algo para el dolor. La señora solo dijo: inmovilicémoslo y subámoslo a la ambulancia. Cuando ya estaba dentro de la ambulancia, le dije: señora, por favor ¿me puede dar algo para el dolor?, y la señora me dijo: no, esta es una ambulancia básica, aquí no tenemos medicamentos. Yo dije: ¡no puede ser!

If someone is interested to read in full, it's a very long interview: https://www.semana.com/nacion/artic...el-que-casi-muere-o-queda-paraplejico/202256/
 
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Regarding Bernal's unvisible bus:
I can tell you, having spent a decent chunk of time in Colombia and S-America (we're talking years), that busses park / pop op / stop at the weirdest places.
As someone who took those buses quite a lot, it's always a bit of adrenaline and a relief when a big intercity bus, doing 90km/hr in traffic, decides (or not) to stop when you wave your hand next to a busy national road. Sometimes they stop in the middle of the street, sometimes they go to the side, sometimes they brake very hard, but I often saw the dangerous consequences this created for other traffic.

It's easy to ride a TT bike, look up for some seconds and only see either an open road, or a bus that just passed and is already 200 meters further...
5 seconds later, that bus can have stopped, or a bus has come out of a side road and immediately stops on the big road because they pick up passengers at that intersection.

Does that excuse Bernal not paying attention? No, to the contrary: he knew even better than me that this is standard stuff in Colombia, and that he should be very vigilant.
The bus didn't "stop" or wasn't parked on the weirdest place. Look at the video. It was Bernal who had a "weird" and dangerous behavior in cycling hundreds of meters head down, only looking at his data. I hate that people are looking for excuses that aren't there. Because that's how you keep the problem alive. And with the cycling tourists and would be riders imitating the top riders, this is a disturbing thought.
End of discussion.
 
The bus didn't "stop" or wasn't parked on the weirdest place. Look at the video. It was Bernal who had a "weird" and dangerous behavior in cycling hundreds of meters head down, only looking at his data. I hate that people are looking for excuses that aren't there. Because that's how you keep the problem alive. And with the cycling tourists and would be riders imitating the top riders, this is a disturbing thought.
End of discussion.
read the last line of my reply, before you waste your precious time commenting.
 
read the last line of my reply, before you waste your precious time commenting.
I read your last line. Nothing to do with my reply.

And the bus didn't just stop 5 seconds before, as we could see on the images. And even then, by riding more than 60 k/hour, not even not constantly looking ahead (so at least once every two seconds) is just insane. Especially on a road in an urban environment. As no doubt many more cars will have been parked, and cars will have come out of side streets, and pedestrians will have crossed the road. A normal traffic situation all over the world, not only in Colombia. The only not normal behaviour was that of Bernal.
 
Well, I didn't make excuses. I explained that in the chaos of Colombian and S-American traffic, busses do unpredictable things and thus oneshould always be vigilant.
The fact that he crashed into a bus that didn't do weird things, shows that there are no excuses (I quote: "Does that excuse Bernal not paying attention? No, to the contrary ....").

Your words: "I hate that people are looking for excuses that aren't there. "

So yes, you're lacking reading comprehension and resort to being pedantic ("End of discussion") --> if you don't want to discuss any further, feel free! :)
 
Well, I didn't make excuses. I explained that in the chaos of Colombian and S-American traffic, busses do unpredictable things and thus oneshould always be vigilant.
The fact that he crashed into a bus that didn't do weird things, shows that there are no excuses (I quote: "Does that excuse Bernal not paying attention? No, to the contrary ....").

Your words: "I hate that people are looking for excuses that aren't there. "

So yes, you're lacking reading comprehension and resort to being pedantic ("End of discussion") --> if you don't want to discuss any further, feel free! :)
Please don’t engage and get this started again. I avoided the thread for a few days to avoid the back and forth, but still want to tune in to hear news about Bernal’s recovery proceed.
 

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