Teams & Riders The official Egan Bernal is the new Egan Bernal thread

[ppanther92]

Can he be the fifth contender for the TdF GC?

I mean, best performance by Bernal since the crash and happy to see that but TdF GC contender for what? The win? Then I have bad news for you in the form of Vingegaard. Maybe Pogacar with the Giro in his legs is a bit of a question mark. But otherwise those two are clearly a level above Roglic and Evenepoel as well. And Bernal’s optimal outcome probably is to fight those two.

 

[Oldermanish]

Well....so much for appreciating the hopeful return to form of very popular Tour de France Winner.

 

[Escarabajo]

I mean, best performance by Bernal since the crash and happy to see that but TdF GC contender for what? The win? Then I have bad news for you in the form of Vingegaard. Maybe Pogacar with the Giro in his legs is a bit of a question mark. But otherwise those two are clearly a level above Roglic and Evenepoel as well. And Bernal’s optimal outcome probably is to fight those two.

I guess that's why He said fifth contender.

I think it is a question mark even for fifth contender. Last year You could see his power coming back, so the talent could be still there. Now, the depth and recovery was another thing. He was very low on recovery if you ask me. So I think INEOS noticed that and realized that he needed a lot of miles in his legs so decided to send him to Spain as well. Now we are just starting to see good results. Unfortunately, I believe that He needs another year to contend for anything that is not 1 week.

 

[Unchained]

I feel your meteorology and painful history. The metal in neck, knee and shoulder can also predict temperature trends.
My first Cat 4 crash (2nd race) left me with a cloudy clavicle x-ray. I asked the Doc if they would fix it with a rod. "Fix what?" He suggested the cloudy, fragmented 2" gap would consolidate over time. Proud owner of the entire Teton Range profile now. It has smoothed to a more Colorado-esque view after 35 years. The other side looks more like undulating sand dunes. Cycling is great on shoulders. I can't go strapless in ball gowns, either.

Did they give you the upbeat boilerplate about how the break will be the strongest part of the bone speech?
I was at Tour of the Dairyland and had a figure 8 brace to travel with.. Sort of pessimistic!! Lol!
When I see Bernal on the bike, especially this year and I see his form and his attitude it makes the hair stand up on my neck. If wanting it will make you win , then he can't be denied a result.
If he almost died and that didn't stop him some white dudes from Denmark and Slovenia ain't holdin' him down.. If you can't tell I am a believer!!

 

[Oldermanish]

Did they give you the upbeat boilerplate about how the break will be the strongest part of the bone speech?
I was at Tour of the Dairyland and had a figure 8 brace to travel with.. Sort of pessimistic!! Lol!
When I see Bernal on the bike, especially this year and I see his form and his attitude it makes the hair stand up on my neck. If wanting it will make you win , then he can't be denied a result.
If he almost died and that didn't stop him some white dudes from Denmark and Slovenia ain't holdin' him down.. If you can't tell I am a believer!!

Got the upbeat future for the first break. It only broke 4 more times on either side of the first calamity.
NOTE: 90% of crash prevention is getting to the best level of racing you can and only train with people you know.

 

[Extinction]

You cannot compare, we all only guessing. Not even Bernal knows how his body will respond. Every crash and injury is different. Each injury is specific and each person has different recovery rates for various injuries. There are factors Bernal can control, but others he cannot. The best we can do is react based upon his results. Considering what we know I think his results are promising so far.

Yes, but I insist the best Bernal isn't as good as Pogi or Vingo.

 

[Extinction]

Broken bones (including vertebrae) almost always heal. But if Bernal also badly ruptured one or more discs in the accident, the resulting problems may not improve without surgery. But I don’t remember his specific set of injuries.

His injuries aren't preventing him from regaining top fitness, as resent results would seem to indicate. He's on his way back to top fitness. The question still remains, will it be enough to beat Vingegaard and Pogacar at the Tour. I believe no.

 

[Cookster15]

Yes, but I insist the best Bernal isn't as good as Pogi or Vingo.

I agree on that. I, like I suspect many, would like to see Bernal approach his best. That would be an inspirational comeback, even if no match for the big two.

 

[Bolder]

I agree on that. I, like I suspect many, would like to see Bernal approach his best. That would be an inspirational comeback, even if no match for the big two.

He won the Giro in far from optimal form after abandoning the Tour the summer before with a back injury. I don't know what his level would have been if he'd never been injured, back and crash.

Bernal won the Tour at a young age with a climbing level that was the best in the world at the time, and he was ascendant every year before that. He could have kept improving his climbing and also worked at his ITT (which was not bad).

Granted, the 2019 Tour and 2021 Giro weren't the toughest GTs in terms of competition, but you can only beat who's on the start list.

All that said...he's clearly a step or two below his GT winning level, and I haven't really seen indications that he'll get back there, quite decent performance in Camino notwithstanding. I'm guessing the best he can achieve is fighting for podiums in week long stage races, which in itself would be a triumph.

 

[Netserk]

I doubt that he will ever get back to the level he had in 2021, but I wouldn't rule it out and I think that with the progress we've seen that we can expect him to reach a level where can podium the big one-week stage races and maybe win a GT stage again.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

His injuries aren't preventing him from regaining top fitness, as resent results would seem to indicate. He's on his way back to top fitness. The question still remains, will it be enough to beat Vingegaard and Pogacar at the Tour. I believe no.

How can you possibly make the assessment that his injuries aren't preventing him of anything? I very much hope he gets back to his old best, who knows, some actually come back stronger because the body got a reset and was built up meticulously and slowly. But i would think it very much depends on a case by case scenario and the more crap your body had to endure, the likelier something will permanently hold it back. And his body has had a lot of crap to endure.
I doubt his current level is proof of his injuries not hampering him in any way ever again. Aru and Oomen for instance both had the same kind of injury (not as Bernal, but each other), had surgery and after that were good enough to be a pro and get half decent results. But Aru never got back to the level he had before, neither did Oomen deliver on the promise of the 2018 Giro, while both had time on their side.

 

[Extinction]

How can you possibly make the assessment that his injuries aren't preventing him of anything? I very much hope he gets back to his old best, who knows, some actually come back stronger because the body got a reset and was built up meticulously and slowly. But i would think it very much depends on a case by case scenario and the more crap your body had to endure, the likelier something will permanently hold it back. And his body has had a lot of crap to endure.
I doubt his current level is proof of his injuries not hampering him in any way ever again. Aru and Oomen for instance both had the same kind of injury, had surgery and after that were good enough to be a pro and get half decent results. But Aru never got back to the level he had before, neither did Oomen deliver on the promise of the 2018 Giro, while both had time on their side.

To the bolded, the way he's riding now. If permanent damage would have been done, he'd be at a much lower level or wouldn't be riding at all. Second behind Vingegaard recently on a hilltop finish, indicates to me his
injuries aren't hampering him.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

To the bolded, the way he's riding now. If permanent damage would have been done, he'd be at a much lower level or wouldn't be riding at all. Second behind Vingegaard recently on a hilltop finish, indicates to me his
Injuries aren't hampering him.

Like i said, you can't come to that conclusion based on that. Merckx also had a nasty injury early in his career, he still won multiple GT's after that, but said himself he was never able to reach the level he had before. But one hilltop finish is enough for you to come to the conclusion that Bernal isn't being held back. Aru also finished 2nd behind Landa in Burgos '21. But we all know that wasn't a sign of him not being held back by injuries.

 

[AmRacer]

Like i said, you can't come to that conclusion based on that. Merckx also had a nasty injury early in his career, he still won multiple GT's after that, but said himself he was never able to reach the level he had before. But one hilltop finish is enough for you to come to the conclusion that Bernal isn't being held back. Aru also finished 2nd behind Landa in Burgos '21. But we all know that wasn't a sign of him not being held back by injuries.

@Froome is definitely being held back by his injuries.

 

[Froome]

@Froome is definitely being held back from his injuries.

I'm gonna win the Tour with the same age as horner won the vuelta.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

@Froome is definitely being held back by his injuries.

I don't know, based on his results in Tour du Rwanda, i think he is physically 100%.
Maybe he is just a bit slower because he has to drag all that money around.

 

[Extinction]

Aru was

Like i said, you can't come to that conclusion based on that. Merckx also had a nasty injury early in his career, he still won multiple GT's after that, but said himself he was never able to reach the level he had before. But one hilltop finish is enough for you to come to the conclusion that Bernal isn't being held back. Aru also finished 2nd behind Landa in Burgos '21. But we all know that wasn't a sign of him not being held back by injuries.

Aru was no Bernal. What I think is were Bernal being unduely hampered by his injuries, he would be more like Froome, which he is decidedly not. Lemond also said after his hunting accident that he never reached his former level, but he had pellets in him leaching lead. As far as I know, Bernal doesn't have internal organ damage, so, in theory, he should be able to reach his former level. The problem for him is that there are those who have raised the bar even higher.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yeah, i'm not going to get into this debate. You think Bernal finishing 2nd on a hill is proof he can regain his old level, knock yourself out. I'm not saying it's not possible, i'm saying him finishing 2nd on a hill in a prep race proves diddly squat.

 

[Elos Anjos]

There's truth in saying that Gran Camiño does not warrant 1) "Bernal is back" but it raises the bar concerning last season. It's February but still he finished better than cyclists who are considered as very solid.

Other issue is that even 1) is true, that wouldn't immediatly put Bernal in a rivaling situation with the new boys in town. But it's great to witness how seems to be on a good path.

 

[Extinction]

Yeah, i'm not going to get into this debate. You think Bernal finishing 2nd on a hill is proof he can regain his old level, knock yourself out. I'm not saying it's not possible, i'm saying him finishing 2nd on a hill in a prep race proves diddly squat.

It's the same for all GT guys right now. So you think, come July, Bernal doesn't have the same margin of improvement as the others? I don't think his injuries will hamper this, which was the whole point of the debate. And, yes, second behind Vingegaard, who clearly is already on a good level, suggests to me this is so, as I'm sure it does to his team.

 

[Extinction]

There's truth in saying that Gran Camiño does not warrant 1) "Bernal is back" but it raises the bar concerning last season. It's February but still he finished better than cyclists who are considered as very solid.

Other issue is that even 1) is true, that wouldn't immediatly put Bernal in a rivaling situation with the new boys in town. But it's great to witness how seems to be on a good path.

This is basically what I've been saying.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

This is basically what I've been saying.

No, that's not what you've been saying, or at least implying. You assume he is no longer suffering the consequences from his injuries. And the post you quoted says "his result in EGC does not warrant saying Bernal is back", which is basically what you have been claiming. I have never said he in his best form would be able to win the TDF again against current rivals. So that is not what this is about.
So a question, what will you do when, in the TDF, Bernal gets dropped by Gaudu, Pidcock, Almeida, Hart, Vlasov... will you try to tell us he is back to his old form but these guys have simply improved beyond his former level?

 

[Salvarani]

Besides Pog, Vingegaard and Roglic... he is as much as an outsider as anyone else for the win in a GT.

I rate his chances just the same as anyone else outside of the top 3, above, at this date.

 

[Salvarani]

I doubt that he will ever get back to the level he had in 2021, but I wouldn't rule it out and I think that with the progress we've seen that we can expect him to reach a level where can podium the big one-week stage races and maybe win a GT stage again.

Yes, and I believe he has as much of chance as anyone else to get on the podium in a GT... not just winning a stage. If he can do that, he could maybe even win again. Stranger things has happened. We might not know that for sure, for at least another 2-3 years though. All depending on what happens.

All everyone can do is guess atm.

 

[Escarabajo]

Besides Pog, Vingegaard and Roglic... he is as much as an outsider as anyone else for the win in a GT.

I rate his chances just the same as anyone else outside of the top 3, above, at this date.

You have to be careful, because You left someone else out of the list.