The Official LANCE ARMSTRONG Thread 2010-2011

[thehog]

What do you know about his preparation? I am actually a bit curious about that, because as of now, his traning, and I quote (some random member at CN), "seems to be all over the place". So if you have any further information about how his traning is going, please speak up.

No problems.

I know that he has flown long haul 5 times in the first 3 months of the year. Thats one day in the air not training and 2 days of jet lag whereby no or small amounts of training takes place. I know that he has been struck down with sickness so bad that he couldn't race twice already this year. "Preparation" and "build up" is all about stringing together several days, then weeks, then months of quality training and race days. This has not occurred. Several training blocks have been missed means you start again. We also know that to race and be in the final section on Alpine and Pyrenean climbs you have to train on them. You can't do that in the US (his words) and certainly not in charity rides in South Africa. I know. I've ridden them. They are like no other. Thats what makes the Tour de France so special. Its climbs are special and certainly unique. Now if he flies back in late June rides Switzerland with smaller climbs then the Tour then by normal human rationalisation its not possible to be in the final selection of a race as hard as the Tour.

Now if you have a counter analysis to my statements - go right ahead. Although I think you can't.

Over to you champ.

 

[Digger]

Interesting post.

I think part of the problem is that Armstrong comes from a country thats not a cycling nation at heart. Most of his fans are not cycling fans from the perspective that they don't follow cycling its more that they follow Lance. They don't watch cycling they just like reading about Lance sticking it to the Europeans. The catch here is that he can make up any story he likes and it sounds plausible because most of his fans haven't seen the race or witnessed the way he's behaved. When he gets dropped by 6 minutes on a mountain stage in a low key race he just references "preparation" and "build-up" and they eat it up. When he does actually win which he's done nothing of recently they remark on perfect preparation and build up. If Armstrong was Italian or any from European nation there is no way he could behave the way he does. He wouldn't get away with it being from any other country.

What I find most strange about the man was his speech on the podium in 2005. After 7 straight Tour wins and the French breaking tradition by allowing the winner to speak he took it as an opportunity to take a swipe at just about everyone. It had to be the crassest victory speech in history of the sport. The subsequent events in 2006 just made the speech even more strange. It would have been a wonderful opportunity to thank those who made him a very successful sportsperson and thank the race and the country but didn't. He choose to beat up on everyone. He should remember that the "yellow" he stole for his Livestrong brand belongs to the Tour. But lets not thank them.

The comeback speeches were equally bizarre but from a different perspective. The Catlin program, the "I'm not taking a salary" and "this one's on me", along with "this ones for them" etc. etc. etc. were sickening. Nothing wrong with earning money and that what we expect but to pretend its something different and worse still to pretend that the entire comeback 2.0 is about "awareness" and "charity" is just plain deceitful.

However nothing surprises me about this man anyone. Win, loose or draw I'm sure come Tour time the marketing strategy has all been worked out and ready to be deployed. I'm unsure just how much of the media is willing to buy it this time around. Time will tell....

One final point. Everyone knows from top professional to weekend racer that if he you haven't done much training or the right kind of training you don't perform at the highest level. So when Armstrong starts attacking on mountain stages or keeps up with Contador at the Tour we really have to ask a question - How is this possible considering the preparation?

Great post Hog. Obviously I agree with what you say, but your last point about his lack of proper preparation is something I feel particularly strong about. His training is all over the place. No routine whatsoever. It's a case of fitting in some miles around his business interests. Some days he might rip the sh** out of it, other days are spent on a plane. One of the reasons I actually admire cyclists, outside of the doping issue, is the dedication involved. I can't think of another sport which requires as much dedication and training - maybe swimming. To do it properly, the vast majority live like monks, day after day - training, eating, sleeping. As derided as Rasmussen is and was, he was still incredibly dedicated - the water in the muesli, the day he was seen by Cassani, he was apparently on an eight hour ride. Contrast this with Lance - photoshoots, flights etc. If he challenges, as Hog points out, it's not credible.

 

[Digger]

The basic reason people dislike Lance is because he is winner
The basic reason people like Lance is because he is a winner.

Troll........

 

[Race Radio]

The basic reason people dislike Lance is because he is winner

Where is the hate for Merckx, Fignon, Hinult, Indurain?

 

[thehog]

That doesn't explain why he is so popular in Australia.

Australians are just as stupid. They have less cycling coverage than the US. Look at the way they behaved at the TDU this year. The fawning was not about cycling it was about Lance. That was my point. Australians like Americans don't know true cycling. If they did they would have paid Shleck, Contador and others in the top 5 at last years Tour to be at the TDU. Thats would do so much more for Australian cycling. The TDU was not a serious cycling event. Period. Don't pretend Australians know anything about cycling.

 

[MikeyClark]

Where is the hate for Merckx, Fignon, Hinult, Indurain?

If the internet was around in their heydays I'm sure people would find lots of reasons to dislike them.

Remember it's something that mainly happens whilst athletes are still in the game. In ten years time I doubt there will be much 'hatred' of Lance Armstrong.

 

[thehog]

In ten years time I doubt there will be much 'hatred' of Lance Armstrong.

In ten years Contador will be wrapping up his 12th Tour. They won't remember who Lance Armstrong was.

 

[kurtinsc]

In ten years Contador will be wrapping up his 12th Tour. They won't remember who Lance Armstrong was.

That's a bit silly statement.

Just because Lance surpassed Indurain's TDF accomplishments, people didn't forget who Indurain was. People won't forget Lance either.

 

[MikeyClark]

Australians are just as stupid.

In ten years Contador will be wrapping up his 12th Tour. They won't remember who Lance Armstrong was.

Digger doesn't like trolling. He might report you.

 

[Race Radio]

If the internet was around in their heydays I'm sure people would find lots of reasons to dislike them.

Now I am confused. I thought they hated him because he was a winner.....now you tell me it is all the internet's fault?

 

[MikeyClark]

Now I am confused. I thought they hated him because he was a winner.....now you tell me it is all the internet's fault?

The internet provides a forum where people can follow celebs closely and express their opinions on everything they do. This means sports stars, actors and politicians, have hordes of groupies and haters following them around as a hobby.

In another thread a user called Thoughtforfood hated on Bradley Wiggins because of his hair cut and not travelling 12 hours to a race. People just didn't have the opportunity to dwell on little things like this years ago. If every interview and activity of someone like Greg LeMond was raked over years ago, there would be endless opportinities to hate on him as well.

 

[Walkman]

No problems.

I know that he has flown long haul 5 times in the first 3 months of the year. Thats one day in the air not training and 2 days of jet lag whereby no or small amounts of training takes place. I know that he has been struck down with sickness so bad that he couldn't race twice already this year. "Preparation" and "build up" is all about stringing together several days, then weeks, then months of quality training and race days. This has not occurred. Several training blocks have been missed means you start again. We also know that to race and be in the final section on Alpine and Pyrenean climbs you have to train on them. You can't do that in the US (his words) and certainly not in charity rides in South Africa. I know. I've ridden them. They are like no other. Thats what makes the Tour de France so special. Its climbs are special and certainly unique. Now if he flies back in late June rides Switzerland with smaller climbs then the Tour then by normal human rationalisation its not possible to be in the final selection of a race as hard as the Tour.

Now if you have a counter analysis to my statements - go right ahead. Although I think you can't.

Over to you champ.

No, I do not but it seems as you misinterpreted my post. I didn't say you were wrong, I was just genuinely curious about what you knew about LA:s training. In fact, I agree with you on this one. His training and preparations seems to be totally f****d up, and I can't find out way, doesn't he want to race in France?

And since I have been an endurance athlete myself I am very well aware of the importance of training on a regular basis.

You say that the climbes in France are unique, why is that? Doesn't they have high mountains in the US too?

And please stop calling me "champ". I didn't say that your post was wrong, I just asked you to give me the information, on wich your conclusion was based. Is that too much to ask?

 

[Race Radio]

The internet provides a forum where people can follow celebs closely and express their opinions on everything they do. This means sports stars, actors and politicians, have hordes of groupies and haters following them around as a hobby.

In another thread a user called Thoughtforfood hated on Bradley Wiggins because of his hair cut and not travelling 12 hours to a race. People just didn't have the opportunity to dwell on little things like this years ago. If every interview and activity of someone like Greg LeMond was raked over years ago, there would be endless opportinities to hate on him as well.

Digger, Berzin, the Hog, and others write detailed explanations of why they find Armstrong distasteful. Instead of addressing any of those points you blame it all on the internet. Even you can see how foolish that claim is.

Go to any bar in Belgium during the classics and you will learn more about the sport then you will ever read on the internet.

 

[Digger]

If the internet was around in their heydays I'm sure people would find lots of reasons to dislike them.

Remember it's something that mainly happens whilst athletes are still in the game. In ten years time I doubt there will be much 'hatred' of Lance Armstrong.

Well considering how much of a media ***** the guy is, then I can safely say that the level of disdain for Lance will be even greater.
And aside from this, riders with far greater levels of success were never disliked in the same manner. FFS, Alberto is dominating the sport in a way Lance never did, and he is not disliked. And i hate to burst your bubble, but plenty of other 'current' winners in other sports are certainly not hated or even disliked. Could it ever be, that Lance is disliked for legitimate reasons?

 

[thehog]

No, I do not but it seems as you misinterpreted my post. I didn't say you were wrong, I was just genuinely curious about what you knew about LA:s training. In fact, I agree with you on this one. His training and preparations seems to be totally f****d up, and I can't find out way, doesn't he want to race in France?

And since I have been an endurance athlete myself I am very well aware of the importance of training on a regular basis.

You say that the climbes in France are unique, why is that? Doesn't they have high mountains in the US too?

And please stop calling me "champ". I didn't say that your post was wrong, I just asked you to give me the information, on wich your conclusion was based. Is that too much to ask?

Sorry. Thought you were baiting. No offence intended.

Its not the height of Alpine climbs its the length and the undulations contained within. You have to climb them to know them. The gearing is most important. You have to get the gearing right or it will kill your chances. I don't mean you need a higher enough gear to ride uphill but you need the right combination. They don't have 20km+ climbs in the US. You have to teach yourself, train yourself to concentrate for over an hour on these climbs. Anyone can ride uphill but imagine yourself riding uphill for 2 hours, then 3 hours etc. Its so much different than riding on the flat at concentrating for that period of time.. You cannot replicate this sensation anywhere else in the world bar France, Italy and some of Spain.

From personal experience I've done d'Huez 4 times. Each and every time I've climbed it I've learnt something new. One prevailing theme of riding d'Huez is the concentration and knowing how to balance and channel your energy for the entire climb. The first 2km's it "ramps up" - expended too much energy there and it can cost you later. Thats the way it works - the action you take at km 2 and cost you at km 19. Throw in guys attacking and if you "know" the climb you can calculate if to follow, to limit or to counter. (This is where doping destroyed the sport - because everyone fat, thin could climb at the same speed. The nuances of climbs became less important.)

This years Tour uses several non-tradtional climbs. Armstrong doesn't know them from experience. So banging out 6 hours rides in Texas and flying around the world is not going to prepare him to "know" these climbs and how to concentrate riding up these mountains. Although I'm sure "hope", "courage" and "doing it for them" will counteract this

 

[Berzin]

What do you know about his preparation? I am actually a bit curious about that, because as of now, his training, and I quote (some random member at CN), "seems to be all over the place". So if you have any further information about how his training is going, please speak up.

I'm a bit curious too, as to how Armstrong can drop out of one European race after another, go back to the US where ALL of the racing is sub-par in comparison (and that's if he's even racing, which he isn't right now) and show up in July riding like gangbusters without one hint of doubt or hesitation from the groupies.

How is it possible to miss so many days of the European cycling calendar and still contend for the Tour? How?

So while Armstrong is watching soap box derbies in Texas, his alleged, supposed main "rival" is busy doing this-

 

[MikeyClark]

Digger, Berzin, the Hog, and others write detailed explanations of why they find Armstrong distasteful.

They do, but they wouldn't have had the opportunity, thanks to the internet, or the endless information to dwell on, thanks to the internet, so would not be able to turn hating into a lifestyle hobby. Most famous people have this now.

If you follow any sport or musical artist all the time then it's actually quite boring to just praise and enjoy them, and it becomes more internet to criticise. That's another byproduct of the internet where people can spend all their time talking about something they wouldn't have had the opportunity to do so on a daily basis before forums came along. You may have had this experience following a band in a forum. At first you think they're great. Next you start being their manager and saying they should be doing that gig or that concert, or doing a new album in this way to get bigger, and then you end up actually being a bigger critic than you are a fan. If you're going to talk about something everyday then you're going to find a lot wrong with it.

Go to any bar in Belgium during the classics and you will learn more about the sport then you will ever read on the internet.

I don't understand what this means. What has this got to do with groupies and haters living through a star as a hobby?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Rabid nationalism + general lack of cycling knowledge + suspension of disbelief = Lance Armstrong fandom

 

[MikeyClark]

Well considering how much of a media ***** the guy is, then I can safely say that the level of disdain for Lance will be even greater.

Sometimes Armstrong is criticised for not liking the media enough, other times he is criticised for doing too much media and being a media darling. Again it's a demonstration of a modern problem.

And aside from this, riders with far greater levels of success were never disliked in the same manner.

That's my point. They would have been if people could second guess them on the internet everyday and had the level of information about their activities to mull over we have now.

FFS, Alberto is dominating the sport in a way Lance never did, and he is not disliked. And i hate to burst your bubble, but plenty of other 'current' winners in other sports are certainly not hated or even disliked. Could it ever be, that Lance is disliked for legitimate reasons?

You often have to scratch the surface to find it. Most casual fans will not be aware of the level of hatred there is for Armstrong on some internet cycling forums. You probably haven't heard of the haters that follow athletes in other sports, or in other areas of life. But they are out there.

As for Alberto he is not English speaking, which makes a difference with the focus of people, and he is still quite new as a dominant champ. Give that one another couple of years. But yes, there probably are exceptions if they have an incredibly lovable characters - which is not most people.

 

[Digger]

Rabid nationalism + general lack of cycling knowledge + suspension of disbelief = Lance Armstrong fandom

It's fascinating in one sense - blaming the internet is a new one though I must admit. The irony of course is that Lance's own books are one source of why cycling fans dislike the guy.

 

[Digger]

Sometimes Armstrong is criticised for not liking the media enough, other times he is criticised for doing too much media and being a media darling. Again it's a demonstration of a modern problem.



That's my point. They would have been if people could second guess them on the internet everyday and had the level of information about their activities to mull over we have now.



You often have to scratch the surface to find it. Most casual fans will not be aware of the level of hatred there is for Armstrong on some internet cycling forums. You probably haven't heard of the haters that follow athletes in other sports, or in other areas of life. But they are out there.

As for Alberto he is not English speaking, which makes a difference with the focus of people, and he is still quite new as a dominant champ. Give that one another couple of years. But yes, there probably are exceptions if they have an incredibly lovable characters - which is not most people.

Where? Is there a secret place where they go?

But wait, there are exceptions are there? straws, clutching at, spring to mind.

 

[MikeyClark]

It's fascinating in one sense - blaming the internet is a new one though I must admit. The irony of course is that Lance's own books are one source of why cycling fans dislike the guy.

But cycling fans don't tend to dislike him. He has shown over the last couple of years he has fans at the side of the road in every country he has gone to. Again, you maybe under the illusion he is hated because you hate on him everyday with like minded people who can now speak to each other through the internet. Imagine if the internet did not exist - you'd have nothing to talk about.

I would have thought my point about the internet was fairly common sense. Are you really saying the level of information that we have to play with these days, the instant communication and the existence of forums where like minded people can dwell on things on a daily basis as a life hobby, has zero impact? I'm very surprised you would say that.

Why don't you stop and think about it.

 

[Publicus]

I would think by now folks could spot him straight away. The name has changed but the game is very much the same.

 

[Anonymous]

I would think by now folks could spot him straight away. The name has changed but the game is very much the same.

Just reported it to Susan. He is trying to be a bit more subtle today, but he is just not smart enough to cover his tracks that well.

 

[Iker_Baqueiro]

Interesting post.


One final point. Everyone knows from top professional to weekend racer that if he you haven't done much training or the right kind of training you don't perform at the highest level. So when Armstrong starts attacking on mountain stages or keeps up with Contador at the Tour we really have to ask a question - How is this possible considering the preparation?

Exactly !!! that will be total and shameless doping !!!