The Official LANCE ARMSTRONG Thread 2010-2011

[kurtinsc]

We are varing in to Clinic talk here - firstly what comments have we heard from the riders on the bus with Floyd when they stopped at the side of the road, that would be more pertinent.

As for AC - there were 7 different DNA's profiles from the OCLAESP - I have always believed that AC's is not one of those.
This is not saying AC is clean - I believe he has always been on his own seperate programme. Which is one of the reasons he and JB did not get along particularly well.

Plenty of threads in the Clinic to continue this.

True... but I'd just state that Contador and Bruyneel seemed to get along VERY well prior to Lance coming back.

Contador could have gone almost anywhere when Discovery folded. He was a young rider coming off a TDF win... who wouldn't have wanted him. But he chose to follow Bruyneel to Astana... a team I think he would have had nothing to do with if Johan hadn't gone there.

While Johan chose Lance over Contador... you can't tell me that Contador disliked Bruyneel prior to the comeback. And I'll have a hard time believing Bruyneel wasn't key in running his program.

Perhaps in 2009 when it became clear to AC that Astana was now "the Lance show" he went on his own and his was the missing bag... but I doubt that was true in 2008.

 

[Ferminal]

True... but I'd just state that Contador and Bruyneel seemed to get along VERY well prior to Lance coming back.

Contador could have gone almost anywhere when Discovery folded. He was a young rider coming off a TDF win... who wouldn't have wanted him. But he chose to follow Bruyneel to Astana... a team I think he would have had nothing to do with if Johan hadn't gone there.

While Johan chose Lance over Contador... you can't tell me that Contador disliked Bruyneel prior to the comeback. And I'll have a hard time believing Bruyneel wasn't key in running his program.

Perhaps in 2009 when it became clear to AC that Astana was now "the Lance show" he went on his own and his was the missing bag... but I doubt that was true in 2008.

Johan seems to have quite a good relationship with almost all of his riders... just look at how easily he pulled everyone to RadioShack at the end of last season.

Probably for a combination of reasons - what he can "provide", better contracts and finally the working relationship.

 

[Publicus]

I'm amazed that there hasn't been a report of a Contador comment yet.

Bruyneed was as heavily nailed in Landis' comments as Lance was.

And Contador was with Bruyneel, under his program to be "the next Lance" for several years. Surely the Spanish media has asked him some questions. I mean if Lance and Bruyneel go down, it's hard to imagine Contador won't go down too.

It's not really that hard. Recall, according to Bruyneel, he wasn't that close with Contador and Bruyneel did not, to my knowledge, oversee his training. Not suggesting that AC is clean. Just that I don't think it is clear cut that Bruyneel had such an impact on Contador's development as you suggest.

 

[kurtinsc]

It's not really that hard. Recall, according to Bruyneel, he wasn't that close with Contador and Bruyneel did not, to my knowledge, oversee his training. Not suggesting that AC is clean. Just that I don't think it is clear cut that Bruyneel had such an impact on Contador's development as you suggest.

Why would he follow Bruyneel to Astana after Discovery folded then?

Knowing the problems Astana had... he still followed. And Bruyneel didn't oversee Lance's training either... I don't think that's a factor.

People follow Bruyneel for a reason... and I think we all know a big part of that reason is Clinic material. I think Contador following to Astana was due entirely to Bruyneel... he surely had a lot of options coming off a TDF win.

And it's not like his development didn't take off when he hooked up with Bruyneel. He was a very good rider previously and part of that could just be regular maturation... but there was a jump in results from 2006 to 2007.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

It's not really that hard. Recall, according to Bruyneel, he wasn't that close with Contador and Bruyneel did not, to my knowledge, oversee his training. Not suggesting that AC is clean. Just that I don't think it is clear cut that Bruyneel had such an impact on Contador's development as you suggest.

I think he's onto something. I'm not accusing AC of doping, but if you consider he won four GTs by his mid twenties, and all were one under JB, it should be looked at.

What he does have in his favor is that much of his development was done while at Liberty Seguros, and we know all those guys were clean....

 

[python]

Why would he follow Bruyneel to Astana after Discovery folded then?

i dont know if it's the right question.

it can be equally argued that bruyneel was desperate to do whatever possible to have berto because of the obvious talent he is.

 

[flicker]

Why would he follow Bruyneel to Astana after Discovery folded then?

Knowing the problems Astana had... he still followed. And Bruyneel didn't oversee Lance's training either... I don't think that's a factor.

People follow Bruyneel for a reason... and I think we all know a big part of that reason is Clinic material. I think Contador following to Astana was due entirely to Bruyneel... he surely had a lot of options coming off a TDF win.

And it's not like his development didn't take off when he hooked up with Bruyneel. He was a very good rider previously and part of that could just be regular maturation... but there was a jump in results from 2006 to 2007.

Do you think Alberto may have been comfortable with Johann for a variety of reasons? Maybe he just liked Johann and the paycheck. I do not think Alberto has ever had problem with Johann, the problem is Lance. We all know it is all about Lance.

 

[Publicus]

I think he's onto something. I'm not accusing AC of doping, but if you consider he won four GTs by his mid twenties, and all were one under JB, it should be looked at.

What he does have in his favor is that much of his development was done while at Liberty Seguros, and we know all those guys were clean....

Not only that but his name did come up in the OP files, so an inquiry would be prudent if Landis allegations are substantiated. As I said in another thread, if Landis is correct, everyone that went through the Bruyneel system will have the affirmative obligation to prove they were part of the exception/minority.

I do wonder though how AC'a illness affects his ability to dope. I don't know enough about the disease but I seem to recall that it weakened the walls of his arteries. Can't imagine EPO would be good for that situation but I am not a doctor, nor confident that I fully appreciate the scope of his ailment.

 

[flicker]

Not only that but his name did come up in the OP files, so an inquiry would be prudent if Landis allegations are substantiated. As I said in another thread, if Landis is correct, everyone that went through the Bruyneel system will have the affirmative obligation to prove they were part of the exception/minority.

I do wonder though how AC'a illness affects his ability to dope. I don't know enough about the disease but I seem to recall that it weakened the walls of his arteries. Can't imagine EPO would be good for that situation but I am not a doctor, nor confident that I fully appreciate the scope of his ailment.

Do the riders not combine EPO with Warfarrin to thin the blood?

 

[Publicus]

Do the riders not combine EPO with Warfarrin to thin the blood?

I have no idea. Didn't mean to derail the Armstrong thread on this point. It just occurred to me that his ailment may adversely affect his ability or desire to dope.

 

[flicker]

I think the crash and Floyds admissions/accusations were related. I think Armstrong was distracted when riders started going down in ToC.
However from what little I know about Lance the crash and Floyd may be what it takes to get Lance angry and back to proper racing and form training. With Lance it seems like training/ego/anger are what makes him awesome.
I know someone here will say yes he got his mojo from more than ginger ale.
I think all the controversy is going to get him all fired up. Yes I know some of you may say he is making a little side trip to Girona or Tenifere. I like that Lance is back and angry.

 

[Mellow Velo]

So, FLandis caused Armstrong's T of C crash?
Yer, right.
It's more likely to be age related and plain 'ol bad luck.
Slower reactions. Saw the same thing with Horner, last year.

Sure, Lance is angry, but he's also scared. Racing can't be the focus of his attention, right now and for the conceivable future.

Moose is right about you fanboys circling the wagons.
Trouble is, your wagons are already on fire.

 

[Publicus]

I think the crash and Floyds admissions/accusations were related. I think Armstrong was distracted when riders started going down in ToC.
However from what little I know about Lance the crash and Floyd may be what it takes to get Lance angry and back to proper racing and form training. With Lance it seems like training/ego/anger are what makes him awesome.
I know someone here will say yes he got his mojo from more than ginger ale.
I think all the controversy is going to get him all fired up. Yes I know some of you may say he is making a little side trip to Girona or Tenifere. I like that Lance is back and angry.

He's been back and he's under greater scrutiny than he has ever faced. Maybe you are right and he's going to annihilate the field at the Tour of Luxembourg. More likely he's going to be further distracted by all that's happening around him. Plus he's got his pregnant girlfriend and young son with him in Nice. IMO he's not focused at all.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

He's been back and he's under greater scrutiny than he has ever faced. Maybe you are right and he's going to annihilate the field at the Tour of Luxembourg. More likely he's going to be further distracted by all that's happening around him. Plus he's got his pregnant girlfriend and young son with him in Nice. IMO he's not focused at all.

Is he planning on doing both Luxembourg and tour de suisse or just luxembourg and will make his mind up later on suisse?

 

[Publicus]

Is he planning on doing both Luxembourg and tour de suisse or just luxembourg and will make his mind up later on suisse?

I have no earthly idea of what Armstrong will actually do. It would seem to me a no-brainer that he should race the Tour de Suisse just given the lack of race kilometers he has in his legs, but I'm just a fan and not a trainer or pro.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I do wonder though how AC'a illness affects his ability to dope. I don't know enough about the disease but I seem to recall that it weakened the walls of his arteries. Can't imagine EPO would be good for that situation but I am not a doctor, nor confident that I fully appreciate the scope of his ailment.

I've thought about that myself. I think you have to. I did read on another forum (pure speculation) that his convulsions and fall were caused by his cavernoma being aggravated through EPO use. I'm not a doctor either, so I have no understanding of the relationship between EPO and his condition, hust restating it for discussions sake.

 

[Publicus]

I've thought about that myself. I think you have to. I did read on another forum (pure speculation) that his convulsions and fall were caused by his cavernoma being aggravated through EPO use. I'm not a doctor either, so I have no understanding of the relationship between EPO and his condition, hust restating it for discussions sake.

I'm going to guess that it was the forum where you saw it. Actually a great story (translated by someone named kathy)...

http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/archive/contador-s-history__o_t__t_3092.html

A few days afte the meal in Aranda, in his last race with Liberty, Contador suffered an epileptic fit after a stage or the Vuelta a Burgos. Once again, the mist; once again, Contador. Stubborn, tough, a rebel. The internal scar of his operation has created a hypersensitive area in his brain, very conducive to epileptic fits. Contador has to take medication to prevent the attacks daily and has to visit a neurologist regularly. Another handicap to his performance. Another topic he doesn’t want to talk about. “ I can’t see the sense in talking about this,” he says. “It’s opening another door of my private life which someone can make the most of.” Pedro Celaya, the Discovery doctor and confidante of Contador doesn’t want to talk about it either. “I can only say that Alberto’s only obsession is not to do anything strange with his health,” says Celaya. “Bear in mind how long he’s been in hospital.”

“So it was that when this German doctor (Doctor Werner Franke, who stopped him at the beginning of August racing the Hamburg Classic, accusing me of being involved in a doping plot), saying that I have taken corticoids and anabolic steroids and all that, I got into a tremendous rage,” says Contador, after suffering the curse of the yellow jersey, which is automatically converted into suspicions of all the good winning cyclists. “Only by seeing my career, how I was as a junior, an amateur, how I have worked, how all of it is the result of a logical progression. They say things to me and I want to laugh, or to cry. One of them asked me if Ferrari is my doctor (an Italian of ill-repute), and I wanted to answer no, my doctor is Porsche. On a website I read that an expert says that it is physiologically impossible to climb as fast as I do, that you can’t generate enough wattage. And I would invite him to climb a mountain with me so that he could see it. This is horrific. It’s almost got to the point where they say that when they operated on me they touched my brain and turned me into a superman…..”

And we now have the name of the doctor that Landis referenced. Pedro Celaya

 

[Dr. Maserati]

True... but I'd just state that Contador and Bruyneel seemed to get along VERY well prior to Lance coming back.

Contador could have gone almost anywhere when Discovery folded. He was a young rider coming off a TDF win... who wouldn't have wanted him. But he chose to follow Bruyneel to Astana... a team I think he would have had nothing to do with if Johan hadn't gone there.

While Johan chose Lance over Contador... you can't tell me that Contador disliked Bruyneel prior to the comeback. And I'll have a hard time believing Bruyneel wasn't key in running his program.

Perhaps in 2009 when it became clear to AC that Astana was now "the Lance show" he went on his own and his was the missing bag... but I doubt that was true in 2008.

On the highlighted above, Disco folded after the Tour - which is when most contract negotiations are done, so he was late to the party.

IIRC - there were a few teams interested, including Rabo who were Chickenless, but he wanted to bring Paulinho & Noval and which Astana could accomadate.

Not saying he is clean - just has his own trusted people because he dodged the bullet of Operation Puerto.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Do you think Alberto may have been comfortable with Johann for a variety of reasons? Maybe he just liked Johann and the paycheck. I do not think Alberto has ever had problem with Johann, the problem is Lance. We all know it is all about Lance.

If I knew that a certain DS had a cozier relationship with the UCI than some other DS, I would want to be with the one who has friends in high places.

One less thing to worry about...

 

[royalpig180]

Is he planning on doing both Luxembourg and tour de suisse or just luxembourg and will make his mind up later on suisse?

His team has said that he will certainly ride Luxembourg and that he will definitely not ride the Dauphine Libere. He will most likely ride the Tour de Suisse but that is not certain yet.

 

[LaBici]

why?

LA is yesterday's news. Focus on the new great riders.

 

[progressor]

LA is yesterday's news. Focus on the new great riders.

4900 odd posts in this thread completely disagrees with that

 

[Christian]

However from what little I know about Lance the crash and Floyd may be what it takes to get Lance angry and back to proper racing and form training. With Lance it seems like training/ego/anger are what makes him awesome. (...) Lance is back and angry.

Yup I think so as well! Regardless of whether he doped or not, Lance has always been twice as motivated and focused as anyone else. It really seems like anger is his natural EPO (besides any other drugs that he may or may not have taken).

I have no earthly idea of what Armstrong will actually do. It would seem to me a no-brainer that he should race the Tour de Suisse just given the lack of race kilometers he has in his legs, but I'm just a fan and not a trainer or pro.

I think he'll do Tour de Suisse, that'll work out just fine. Fränk Schleck has been doing Luxembourg, then Suisse for years, Andy did the same last year (this year replaced Luxembourg by California). That race will get him the km's that he needs, it has a strong field, high pace, a lot of mountains ... just right

 

[theswordsman]

This thread is hilarious now. But what will people talk about in July? Justin Beiber? Twilight?

 

[Roland Rat]

Well, Lance did want to dominate 2011. It seems he's got his wish.