The Official LANCE ARMSTRONG Thread 2010-2011

[auscyclefan94]

crazy people

it's crazy how many posts are on this thread and how posters argue over the same thing over and over and over again. Some of you play right in to the LA fans hands by continually arguing with them.

 

[BroDeal]

You're a huge Contador fan. If you discovered Contador had doped for any of his tour victories, would you change your view of him?

Let us know when Contador travels the world lying to people with teminal diseases in order to enrich himself.

 

[Race Radio]

Oh please.

There was no debate between The Hog and I.

Got it, You were just heckling him but not willing to put some skin in the game like he was. You sure don't have much faith in your myth do you?

 

[Publicus]

You're a huge Contador fan. If you discovered Contador had doped for any of his tour victories, would you change your view of him?

Change regarding his victories? Of course. I don't know him personally so that's neither here nor there. Unfortunately, the analogy between AC and Lance is not a good one since so much of what makes folks fans of Lance has to do with his back story (cancer survivor). I'm a fan of AC because of watching him race. His back story came AFTER I was a fan.

And I'm a BIG Kobe Bryant fan--of his game. Was before the rape allegation, still am now (more so--but only related to his game).

 

[Bike Rider]

Change regarding his victories? Of course. I don't know him personally so that's neither here nor there. Unfortunately, the analogy between AC and Lance is not a good one since so much of what makes folks fans of Lance has to do with his back story (cancer survivor). I'm a fan of AC because of watching him race. His back story came AFTER I was a fan.

And I'm a BIG Kobe Bryant fan--of his game. Was before the rape allegation, still am now (more so--but only related to his game).

I don't get how that changes the doping question that you raised? What does cancer have to do with doping?

Armstrong did not fake having cancer, and he would still be a big star without the cancer if he won 7 tours in a row, but yes that makes his story even more amazing.

Are you saying that you would not necessarily think worse of AC if you found out he beat other dopers by doping himself, or even if he may have commited rape? But you'd still dislike Armstrong?

 

[Hugh Januss]

...... You sure don't have much faith in your myth do you?

And deservedly not.

 

[Bike Boy]

You might think about why you would ever be a fan of any public sports persona. I repeat, if what one admires about a public sports persona would be affected by a disappointing revelation regarding the person's character I suggest the original admiration is misplaced.

All I ever admired regarding Armstrong was not the person but the story of hope and perseverance about winning the Tour after beating cancer, so I can never be disappointed by anything he the person does.

Suit yourselves but that distinction makes a lot of sense to me.

WOW...! What you typed here corresponds very well with my thoughts on this matter lately.
My feelings towards Armstrong used to be very strong, but now I'm arriving at the perspective you just described so well.

Although I have to say, the nature of my passion for cycling has always been somewhat naive. I choose to believe in miracles, thus I tend to get disappointed, when it turns out somebody has fooled me (rather a general perspective, not necessarily something that applies to Armstrong).

Don't know if I will ever be able to make that distinction completely though. For instance let's say Armstrong did regain his old strength (please ignore the unlikelihood of this assumption), I really don't think I would be able to turn off the feelings I have had for so many years. Regardless of the fact, that these feelings are somewhat based on a fabricated myth (I'm a hopeless romantic I know).

As it is today I'm actually quite disappointed. Armstrong had the opportunity to do something amazing for cycling with this comeback "this one is on the house" he said. Although in reality it seems he is trying to squeeze the sport until there’s nothing left to gain.
Of course he is giving something back to the sport. All those cycling fans across the world (those who doesn't care whether or not he's a douchebag) who gets to see this legend on the bike.
Even when Armstrong does something good for the sport by attending the Giro as he did last year he still manage to embarrass himself (discrediting himself and the sport by calling off the Milano show).
Judged by the way he suffered through those three weeks he could have earned a hell of a lot respect. Imaging a 7 time tour champion coming out of three and a half years of retirement, despite struggling day in day out he wanted to honour the race by completing it, though it didn’t happen with the fashion he would have liked.
Sadly he couldn’t do it without creating a lot of turmoil.

I don't know about the cancer awareness, it seems like it was an excuse to comeback, but you won’t hear me criticise him in that regard.
Thank god I haven't been through cancer and I sure as hell hope I will never have that experience, so who am I to criticise this man who actually knows what it's like to have cancer? He may be a bad person in many regards, but when it comes to cancer I truly believe he cares a great deal about it.

At the end of the day Armstrong will still be one of the greatest personalities in cycling, and despite of the fact, that he has done things that doesn't serve the sport much credit (especially the fall-out between him and Contador), the chance to see him first hand last summer is an opportunity I wouldn’t have missed for the world.
20 years from know Armstrong's legacy will be more about the fact that he won the tour de france 7 times and less about his arrogance (a little less at least).
It won’t be long before Armstrong retires for good, so I really don't think he can annoy me enough to wish him gone already.

 

[Bike Rider]

Aren't you just a little disappointed by the actions of Mr. Armstrong ever since he announced this comeback?

the rivalry between him and Contador is not very mutual and it has been very ugly. I wouldn't call it a humble thing to do.

Having said that I must admit I still have a lot of feelings regarding Armstrong. I used to be a big fan of him but at this moment I need be reminded why.

Since he came back? I don't know why someone would turn against him since he came back if they weren't a critic before then. He hasn't done anything worse than before. If anything it was surprising he and Contador managed to retain a good public relationship for so long. Lance is a hardass who dominated his team for a decade - it was obviously going to be extremely difficult for him to accept any other team scenario. AC would have known this and knew the team was full of LA's old teammates and DS, and could have switched teams if he really wanted to. In the end it was actually AC that went public with a direct attack on LA before LA launched his famous twitter counter attack. Not that you'd know that from how people refer to it.

I think people are following it all a little bit too closely and blowing it up out of proportion. You do tend to get that with all big super stars, whether they be from Hollywood, music or sport. Some people latch onto them and get very emotionally attached and transfer all the good or bad of humanity onto everything they do. We some times need to take a step back and be a little more grown up about it. Armstrong may have done some bad things in the sport, but he's also done a lot of good things, as well as good for charity. Does he like getting the credit for that? Yes, he probably does, but human beings tend to be like that. Is he Jesus or your chosen Messiah? No, he's not. He rides a bike professionally.

 

[BroDeal]

In the end it was actually AC that went public with a direct attack on LA before LA launched his famous twitter counter attack.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

BPC strikes again.

 

[Bike Rider]

Is that inaccurate?

 

[Race Radio]

Is that inaccurate?

You must have missed the "He has a lot to learn" at Paris_Nice

Armstrong baited AC all year. The best part of the comeback is it has exposed to the world how petulant and childish The Hog and Armstrong are. What was once known by by a few insiders is now common knowledge.

 

[auscyclefan94]

You must have missed the "He has a lot to learn" at Paris_Nice

Armstrong baited AC all year. The best part of the comeback is it has exposed to the world how petulant and childish The Hog and Armstrong are. What was once known by by a few insiders is now common knowledge.

he has been exposed.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Sportsmen become roll models the very moment that they come on my TV and tell me what kind of beer to drink, car to drive, credit card to carry, toothpaste to use, sport drink to drink, impotency drug.....well you get the point, huh. I have no problem with them living their lives anyway they want, up until the point in time when they accept huge sums of money to tell the rest of us what we should be doing. At that point they better start being exemplary citizens. In a minor way this becomes self regulating, but still I would like to see some of these guys loose their big bucks endorsements simply for being dicks, and not because it turns out their whole career is a sham or their "private live" is nothing but a lie.

 

[Publicus]

I don't get how that changes the doping question that you raised? What does cancer have to do with doping?

Armstrong did not fake having cancer, and he would still be a big star without the cancer if he won 7 tours in a row, but yes that makes his story even more amazing.

Are you saying that you would not necessarily think worse of AC if you found out he beat other dopers by doping himself, or even if he may have commited rape? But you'd still dislike Armstrong?

Ah . . . but Armstrong did make his victories about his personal story. How he trained harder, weighed his food. How suffering through cancer helped him suffer on the bike. How it wasn't about the bike.

All part and parcel to the Armstrong myth (and I don't use myth here as a pejorative).

As for my original point, I'm saying that my being a fan of AC or Kobe Bryant are not tied to their personal stories. If AC turned out to be a doper or Kobe was in fact a rapist, then that would be the end of my fan-ship. As I tried to point out (indirectly), it's not about their personal story of hope and perseverance. It's about their athletic ability.

With Lance the two bleed together. Hopefully that is a little clearer.

 

[Bike Rider]

You must have missed the "He has a lot to learn" at Paris_Nice

Armstrong baited AC all year. The best part of the comeback is it has exposed to the world how petulant and childish The Hog and Armstrong are. What was once known by by a few insiders is now common knowledge.

That you have to refer back to that twitter remark some four months before the tour, that was true, shows that I was correct to say AC was the first one to go public with the attack. That is not often mentioned by people that criticise Armstrong. That's all I was saying.

If AC had never trashed him in an interview after the tour then for all we know they might have been able to put the inevitable tensions of the tour behind them as they parted company. We'll never know.

I wouldn't kid yourself that most fans are terribly upset with Armstrong's behaviour. His populatarity went up amongst regular people this year as he became the old underdog willing to still have a go. His style in interviews has been a lot more open and humble from his days as the arrogant dominator of the sport. Even the fans in Spain like him.

 

[Publicus]

Since he came back? I don't know why someone would turn against him since he came back if they weren't a critic before then. He hasn't done anything worse than before. If anything it was surprising he and Contador managed to retain a good public relationship for so long. Lance is a hardass who dominated his team for a decade - it was obviously going to be extremely difficult for him to accept any other team scenario. AC would have known this and knew the team was full of LA's old teammates and DS, and could have switched teams if he really wanted to. In the end it was actually AC that went public with a direct attack on LA before LA launched his famous twitter counter attack. Not that you'd know that from how people refer to it.

I was a big fan of his before he came back. He managed to ruin that pretty damn quickly with his machinations prior to, and during, the TdF. As you said, it was going to be hard for him to accept not being team leader. If that was the case (and I agree it was the case), then he should have taken his a$$ to another team that did not have a GC candidate or sit out the year until after JB broke his contract. He inserted himself into the situation and his reputation has suffered.

And I would suggest you get your timeline straight regarding who said or did what first.

 

[BikeCentric]

I don't get how that changes the doping question that you raised? What does cancer have to do with doping?

Armstrong did not fake having cancer, and he would still be a big star without the cancer if he won 7 tours in a row, but yes that makes his story even more amazing.

Are you saying that you would not necessarily think worse of AC if you found out he beat other dopers by doping himself, or even if he may have commited rape? But you'd still dislike Armstrong?

Looks like Arbiter/BPC is going full *** again. Bets on when he gets banned for the 25th time?

 

[Publicus]

That you have to refer back to that twitter remark some four months before the tour, that was true, shows that I was correct to say AC was the first one to go public with the attack. That is not often mentioned by people that criticise Armstrong. That's all I was saying.

If AC had never trashed him in an interview after the tour then for all we know they might have been able to put the inevitable tensions of the tour behind them as they parted company. We'll never know.

I wouldn't kid yourself that most fans are terribly upset with Armstrong's behaviour. His populatarity went up amongst regular people this year as he became the old underdog willing to still have a go. His style in interviews has been a lot more open and humble from his days as the arrogant dominator of the sport. Even the fans in Spain like him.

I see you've concocted yourself quite the little tale here. Lance was wronged by AC and so Lance had to retaliate.

I think you just outed yourself....

 

[Publicus]

Looks like Arbiter/BPC is going full *** again. Bets on when he gets banned for the 25th time?

Yeah that last post to Race Radio was a little too revealing.

 

[BroDeal]

The old BPC tactic: Presenting Lies and distortions of reality as fact in order to kick off a meaningless debate over delusional situations.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Oh crap, I guess I better go update the list.

 

[craig1985]

Oh crap, I guess I better go update the list.

Or you can just skim over his posts.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Or you can just skim over his posts.

Oh I don't pay too much attention to the content anymore. I just find it entertaining to keep a running tally of the scope of his illness.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

So even learning he was doping to achieve those victories wouldn't change things for you? That the mythology surrounding his story of hope and perserverence was in part contrived? The man that is Lance Armstrong cannot he separated from that mythology.

Right. When you don't care about the person you can't care less no matter what, by definition.

I have it on good authority that Clint Eastwood is an arrogant ahole , or st least was when he was when he was younger. But I'm still a fan of his work as actor and director.

This isn't the right place for the doping question, so I'll just say I'm in the they all dope school... don't care.

Bottom line-don't conflate the person with the persona.

Oh, with respect to selling products... They all do that whenever they don a sponsor's jersey. I ignore that and all ads. Yes I know that many are influenced by endorsements from their heros, but I don't hold the endorsers to a higher standard. I couldn't care less about Tiger's dalliances or how that affects his ability to sell - that's between him and his sponsors.

 

[pmcg76]

Guys, all you need to say is Filipe Simeoni, then watch them wriggle big time.