The pedaling technique thread

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Jun 18, 2015
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No, I don't understand.
Pedal forces result from a combination of muscular forces and gravity and inertia forces. Most of the ineffective forces are due to gravity (eg the weight of the limb when the pedal is coming up). Those forces stay constant. The muscular forces that cyclists choose to produce are highly effective. So as power (and muscular force) increase, the ratio of effective to ineffective goes up.
 
Is that something you can understand Noel?
Noel is a "flat earther" of cycling. A true believer.

No amount of evidence, logic and sense are going to convince him. He worships upon the altar of Anquetil's mythical pedalling and such deep faith can't be reasoned with. Perhaps a visit from the ghost of Jacques crying out in a ghostly rhythm "just push harder Noel, just push harder... that is the secret", may just help.
 
Jun 4, 2015
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If Anquetil had never existed I would still have discovered his technique, because I found it when I succeeded in biomechanically combining arm and leg power. For that you need to generate a powerful forward force and that simple chair racing technique was the solution.
 
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Jun 18, 2015
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What about unweighting the rising pedal ?
That would require a muscular force. Everyone does this to some extent. As mentioned months or years ago in this thread, all studies which investigate really pulling up show that it REDUCES efficiency / INCREASES metabolic cost. Even in a single legged cyclist, pulling up LESS is more efficient.
Alex is right. Not sure why I got sucked back in to this black hole of a thread. Maybe again in a year or two.
Bye bye Noel. Feel free to have the last word.
Jim
 
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Jun 4, 2015
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There is a vast difference between 'unweighting' and 'pulling up' .
In seated pedalling pulling up decreases power at 3 o'c, unweighting increases it.

From Slowtwitch
" Fleck
Mar 11, 05 8:18
Post #9 of 24 (2926 views)
They have done research on top time trialists and what they found was that they were the ones that consistently applied the most force at 3:00 o'clock - period. They also found there was minimal "lifting" of the recovery leg. What was really happening was that these top time trialists were managing to get the recovery leg out of the way, the fastest and most effectively so the on-leg could apply the most power. It also gave the off leg a microsecond or so of recovery.

Fleck "

( as quickly as possible for best effect looks better than " , the fastest and most effectively")
 
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Jun 4, 2015
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Re: Re:


Yes, a solid research paper, but what does a cyclist gain from it ? TT pedalling is not about maximizing power from the muscles, it's about maximizing sustainable power. So the important question is, how do you switch your pedalling style from maximal power to one that will supply maximal sustainable power.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0765159719300280
The findings from that study are in keeping with the explanation as to why oval shaped chainrings will not work. All of which confirms high power pedalling technique will only change when a conscious effort is made to do so with a clear objective in mind, which is to attempt to double the extent of the sector where greatest torque can be applied to crank.
 
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Jan 10, 2020
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Hinault perfected a special backward pedalling technique that enabled him to capture and use the torque his opponents were wasting with their mashing styles.

No one in the history of the sport before or since has been able to replicate Hinault's phenomenal backward torque suck even though high jumpers and shot putters the world over have been routinely deploying these methods since the 1970s.

There are however rumours of some Zwift turbo torque sucking being trialled by a few riders in Kazakstan in prep for the anticipated Zwift world champs in 2019, to be held on a virtual replica of the Zolder course so favoured by Mario Cipollini.
Had to change username from backdoor to frontdoor. Posts of yours I missed.

There is nothing hidden about Hinault's pedalling technique. He gave a detailed explanation of it in his book over 30 years ago. His pedalling around BDC was identical to Anquetil's, Quote, " Thigh movement is minimal. Only knee flexing allows the pedal to be pulled backward. This takes practice because it isn't a natural movement. " That draws the downward force inertia smoothly around BDC. About his upstroke he wrote " Just being able to keep the weight of the leg off the rising pedal is a definite improvement compared to rudimentary pedalling techniques." But it is at TDC that the all important difference between his and Anquetil's pedalling can be found. He wrote " Going through the upper dead spot . By extending the knee you can push the pedal forward." That is the same as using the powerless forward kicking action, while Anquetil used knee extension to steer his powerful driving hip force over TDC and downward towards 2 o'c. Anquetil also used the start of that knee flexing around BDC to boost resistance at the simultaneous switch over between legs of power application at 11 o' c.
 
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