The Polish XMas Troll - Formerly "Lance - Father of the Modern Euro Pro TT Position"

[simo1733]

Ok, you can be fast with a flat back.. I just do not see it as optimal.

If you go with a flat back, you are closing your hips entirely, thus you are only riding with your frontal leg muscles. I think Anquetil is the perfect example: He had the strongest back in the peloton and he was using an egg-position which made possible for him to use all of his powerful middle-body muscles in a hunched back position. How many times he won GP de Nations? 7, 9 times? If you look at Contador riding out of the saddle in the mountains, do you think he is using only his legs? he is using his entire body. I think people with a flat back should be working on the support muscles and their flexibility, and would probably find weaknesses.

I think saddle should be level or even a few mm upwards. Reason for this would be: when you move lower, you should go forward. When you go forward, you should go up because of knee angle.
With an egg-position you do not get any numbness whatsoever because you are sitting correctly on the bike. When you are comfortable, you can produce more power.

The problem with going forward is that it is illegal under UCI rules.Which is why manufacturers who make 2 position seat posts often refer to the forward as the triathlon position.Everyone from the size of Cancellara to Pooley has to ride in the rear position to stay legal.The rules were brought in to outlaw the 2 Obree positions, both of which were very forward.

 

[FKLance]

The problem with going forward is that it is illegal under UCI rules.Which is why manufacturers who make 2 position seat posts often refer to the forward as the triathlon position.Everyone from the size of Cancellara to Pooley has to ride in the rear position to stay legal.The rules were brought in to outlaw the 2 Obree positions, both of which were very forward.

Yes, but you can still go more forward with that rule.. Normal saddle position in non-tt events is way more than 5 cm behind bb especially with tall riders and you sit in the center of the saddle. In TTs saddle is 5cm behind BB and you can sit at the very front, makes a difference..

 

[Berzin]

Why is this in the "Clinic" section?

Why is such a ridiculous premise being entertained?

Isn't it obvious this thread is meant to drive the Armstrong trolls to entertain their creepy fetish?

 

[Dallas_]

Why is this in the "Clinic" section?

Why is such a ridiculous premise being entertained?

Isn't it obvious this thread is meant to drive the Armstrong trolls to entertain their creepy fetish?

dead right berzin, this thread needs booting out of the clinic

and no offense polish, but the thread title "lance-father of the modern euro pro TT position" is a false statement. cheers polish

Actually berzin, I dont mind the fanboys presenting their views. Without their input, the clinic would not be as interesting. To me there is the serious side as well as the entertainment aspect.

cheers to all

 

[Kennf1]

Why is this in the "Clinic" section?

Why is such a ridiculous premise being entertained?

Isn't it obvious this thread is meant to drive the Armstrong trolls to entertain their creepy fetish?

Yep. And everyone took the bait-- 6 pages worth.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Yep. And everyone took the bait-- 6 pages worth.

Not me. And I know you're wrong.

Oh wait, that may count as me taking the bait...

Damn! And all I wanted for Christmas was some anti-troll spray. Santa sucks...

 

[simo1733]

Yes, but you can still go more forward with that rule.. Normal saddle position in non-tt events is way more than 5 cm behind bb especially with tall riders and you sit in the center of the saddle. In TTs saddle is 5cm behind BB and you can sit at the very front, makes a difference..

I think you will find that most pro tour riders have their TT bikes set up with the saddle as far fwd as the rules allow.They also ride on the front of the saddle which is why TT saddles have extra padding in the nose area.

 

[Polish]

I saw at least 4 guys using TT bars in that video in the first 20 seconds.

WTF are you even talking about? The fact that triathletes (many) used them before they made their way into the pro peloton? Given. Obvious fact.

They called them "Tri-bars" at the time.

You have no point.

Yes, 4 guys using "Tri-Bars" in the first 20 seconds...
Also note the "BullHorn" bars - the choice of Euro Road Pros back then moo.
And even a rider using "Traditional" drop bars like Eddy used in the TT.

It was a transitional era in time trialing for sure.

And young Lance, 15 year old Lance, was riding the future before ANY Euro Pro. And he wasn't even a Euro Pro yet. Still in high school lol.
Riding the future at National Level TT ability. In High School.

But the euro pros would eventually learn what Lance ALREADY knew.
The new TT position. The way of the future in the TT.

Lance rode Aero Bars before Fignon, before LeMond, before Big Mig.
Before any Euro Pro. (BTW, who was the first Euro pro to ride BullHorns? I would guess Fignon. Just a guess. Maybe another thread for that one)

But back on topic - every TT Lance has raced as a Euro Pro, he could look around at the peloton and know he was the first one to race with Aero Bars. The first. Boardman was still using traditional bars back then I believe.

THAT is why this thread is called
"Lance - Father of the Modern Euro Pro TT Position"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0uxqvKIXSs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBIV2gXV2tM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HorLQHQ3pMc&feature=related
.

 

[Polish]

Standing on the shoulders of Giants.

Why is this in the "Clinic" section?
?

I mentioned EPO in the OP duh.
You know - "Lance could not TT until he was TRANSFORMED by EPO" bogusness.


BTW, Lance and Berzin turned Euro Pro in the same year...1993.

Practically the same age. But Lance was riding aero bars years before Evgini.
Lance is STILL riding aero bars as a pro. Where is Evgini?

 

[Berzin]

Where is Evgini?

I wouldn't expect you to spell it correctly. It's EVGENI.

He lives in Italy and owns one of two car dealerships.

That's where he is. I can also tell you where he WON'T be in the next couple of months-crying in front of the Feds while being threatened with jail time.

Polish, the best thing you can do for your hero is tweet him to see what he likes best-ranch style or a light vinaigrette for all the ensaladas he's going to be tossing in prison. And throw in a bag of croutons while you're at it. He'll appreciate the gesture on your part.

 

[FKLance]

I think you will find that most pro tour riders have their TT bikes set up with the saddle as far fwd as the rules allow.They also ride on the front of the saddle which is why TT saddles have extra padding in the nose area.

This was exactly what I meant too

 

[Race Radio]

Not me. And I know you're wrong.

Oh wait, that may count as me taking the bait...

Damn! And all I wanted for Christmas was some anti-troll spray. Santa sucks...

Oh, I got you a can but have not had time to wrap it yet

 

[sublimit]

The most revolutionary ideas in TT in that era mostly came from this guy:

Graeme Obree is a pioneer, total genius rider.

Apparently he used that position in roadraces and used to hit the front and burn off riders in the main bunch and solo for race wins back in Scotland. Obviously he has ultra fast TT times and ex holder of the hour record etc. But yes a great rider.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, 4 guys using "Tri-Bars" in the first 20 seconds...
Also note the "BullHorn" bars - the choice of Euro Road Pros back then moo.
And even a rider using "Traditional" drop bars like Eddy used in the TT.

It was a transitional era in time trialing for sure.

And young Lance, 15 year old Lance, was riding the future before ANY Euro Pro. And he wasn't even a Euro Pro yet. Still in high school lol.
Riding the future at National Level TT ability. In High School.

But the euro pros would eventually learn what Lance ALREADY knew.
The new TT position. The way of the future in the TT.

Lance rode Aero Bars before Fignon, before LeMond, before Big Mig.
Before any Euro Pro. (BTW, who was the first Euro pro to ride BullHorns? I would guess Fignon. Just a guess. Maybe another thread for that one)

But back on topic - every TT Lance has raced as a Euro Pro, he could look around at the peloton and know he was the first one to race with Aero Bars. The first. Boardman was still using traditional bars back then I believe.

THAT is why this thread is called
"Lance - Father of the Modern Euro Pro TT Position"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0uxqvKIXSs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBIV2gXV2tM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HorLQHQ3pMc&feature=related
.

Meh

Here is a picture from 1987. Lance is a copycat wussy. He never has been all that original about anything. That dude made his bars and that is cool. Lance never did anything first other than the fact that he probably did more dope than any rider ever. He didn't even get cancer first...

 

[euanli]

how is armstrong using tri bars in a tri race in 87 of any importance when the pro pelaton in a completely different sport with completely different rules of any importance?

hell when lemond used tri bars in 89 they still technically allowed in pro cycling. fignon was disqualified after the tour for riding with tri bars because the race officials adhered to the rules.

this is a troll thread and I'm not even sure why Ive taken the time to respond.

 

[Oldman]

This thread is Polish's Christmas gift to himself. Merry, merry!

 

[soOpOSMthanks!]

do any of you **** talking clowns currently race? you know who you are the bitter tards who thinks with peds they would not suck. trust me you would anyways both physically and mentally as you play the victim role regarding your failures. any tough guy **** talking posters in socal want to do a little fast ride im in poor fitness as its winter and i have been sick but i bet im better and faster anyways pm me.] or get a ****ing life sorry *** mo fos who get there kicks knocking actual competitors. get the **** off the site this is for fans of bike racing

I love the irony!

Anyways...watch out now, guys. We got ourselves a hardass (*****t).

 

[Martin318is]

I renamed the thread - seemed the Christmassy thing to do

 

[The Hitch]

Well following in this spirit of Christmas i will play the part of Scrooge and point out that there is NOTHING Polish about Christmas Trolls. In fact i have it on good authority that they are mostly Scandinavian.

To say that they are Polish is to encourage a xenophobic, anti east european stereotype and i think it is below Cycling News to be naming threads like this.

 

[simo1733]

I mentioned EPO in the OP duh.
You know - "Lance could not TT until he was TRANSFORMED by EPO" bogusness.


BTW, Lance and Berzin turned Euro Pro in the same year...1993.

Practically the same age. But Lance was riding aero bars years before Evgini.
Lance is STILL riding aero bars as a pro. Where is Evgini?

If Lance was so smart where were his deep section rims?He should have borrowed some Campag Shamals from Evgeny Berzin.Godfather my ****.

 

[Martin318is]

Well following in this spirit of Christmas i will play the part of Scrooge and point out that there is NOTHING Polish about Christmas Trolls. In fact i have it on good authority that they are mostly Scandinavian.

To say that they are Polish is to encourage a xenophobic, anti east european stereotype and i think it is below Cycling News to be naming threads like this.

Thats not "Scrooge" talking, thats "Mr Magoo".

As has been discussed many times, it not POLE-ish. Its POLL-ish

 

[BotanyBay]

His top tube was too short, but he had excellent taste in equipment. That Monarch TT helmet was the best available at the time. He had good taste in shoes (Maressi) and I can see the Campy aero waterbottle. I'd say this was 86 or 87.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Yep. You can see that he is doing everything he can to keep the air from heading straight into his hips. Very effective. He has a mild curve to his back. I assert that his performance would have been even better if he had flattened it out. But that requires a coach working with him that knows how that is accomplished and can also observe him while riding. I haven't read the book, but my understanding is that Obree was a loner and did everything himself.

Evidence of Obree`s positions effectiveness is his hour record power figures.

Perhaps someone can find a link with a the table of wattage outputs . If I remember correctly Obree`s were the lowest followed by Boardman who had a superbe TT position. Merckx`s were the highest. Gawd only knows what he`d have done in Obree`s position!
There is compromise to be reached for every rider between most aero and ability to put the power down in that position. The "fastest" position of all for any rider is unlikely to be the one he can hold for longer periods or put there best power out put out.
Seems some peeps are blessed in the flexibility department and some aint.

Keep it Polished Polish

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I do not like aero bars, Ocana had the epic position TT without aero bars.

Still some of the Europros look great like Cadel. Lances position is ugly, I think it is in his DNA. Still Lance is the greatest TT man ever, to beat Ulrich and the phantom Twin was epic.

Indurain was better, Cancellara is better thus he is not the greatest TT man ever

 

[Michielveedeebee]

do any of you **** talking clowns currently race? you know who you are the bitter tards who thinks with peds they would not suck. trust me you would anyways both physically and mentally as you play the victim role regarding your failures. any tough guy **** talking posters in socal want to do a little fast ride im in poor fitness as its winter and i have been sick but i bet im better and faster anyways pm me. or get a ****ing life sorry *** mo fos who get there kicks knocking actual competitors. get the **** off the site this is for fans of bike racing

yeah i actually do