The Polish XMas Troll - Formerly "Lance - Father of the Modern Euro Pro TT Position"

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Jan 18, 2010
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I reckon this is a decent thread from Polish but Its clear the triathlete Scott Tinley invented that particular position with Lance following suit as a junior triathlete. To be fair they still use that position now -DZ springs to mind.

Obree was in a world of his own and produced his own bike frame,own position, had Specialised tri spoke wheels, he invented the best 2 positions ever but both now banned for a long time now etc, but Boardman after taking those positions was clearly a stronger rider though and was the more talented rider out of them by a long way. Boardman also using Tri style positions early on and later.

images
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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sublimit said:
I reckon this is a decent thread from Polish but Its clear the triathlete Scott Tinley invented that particular position with Lance following suit as a junior triathlete. To be fair they still use that position now -DZ springs to mind.

images
[/QUOTE]

Yes, Scott Tinley invented the position and then Lance followed soon after.
And the Pro Peloton followed soon after Lance.
(Of course nobody ever said Lance invented the tri-bar / tri-position)

Scott Tinley is the "Grandfather of the Modern Euro Pro TT position",
even though he never raced as a Euro Pro.

Lance is the "Father of the Modern Euro Pro TT Postition" because he is the
first euro pro to actually use it.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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euanli said:
how is armstrong using tri bars in a tri race in 87 of any importance when the pro pelaton in a completely different sport with completely different rules of any importance?

It is important when you realize the pro peloton adopted tri-bars and the tri-position at precisely this moment in cycling history. Thank goodness the pro peloton did not adopt the mankini too lol.

euanli said:
hell when lemond used tri bars in 89 they still technically allowed in pro cycling. fignon was disqualified after the tour for riding with tri bars because the race officials adhered to the rules.

Yes, Fignon may have been the first to use tri-bars in the pro peloton, but he got the idea from the tri-guys who were already using them. Like Lance.

euanli said:
this is a troll thread and I'm not even sure why Ive taken the time to respond.

Why do you say it is a troll thread?
Because all the usual suspects say it is?
It is not a troll thread lol.
 
Sep 16, 2010
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I thought Lance fathered three kids he didn't want to live with, and two more with a baby momma, like a hip hop star.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Polish said:

Yes, Scott Tinley invented the position and then Lance followed soon after.
And the Pro Peloton followed soon after Lance.
(Of course nobody ever said Lance invented the tri-bar / tri-position)

Scott Tinley is the "Grandfather of the Modern Euro Pro TT position",
even though he never raced as a Euro Pro.

Lance is the "Father of the Modern Euro Pro TT Postition" because he is the
first euro pro to actually use it.[/QUOTE]

Actually you are both wrong. Boone Lennon invented the tri-bar/aero bar.
Look it up. http://www.faqs.org/sports-science/Je-Mo/Lennon-Boone.html
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Actually you are both wrong. Boone Lennon invented the tri-bar/aero bar.
Look it up. http://www.faqs.org/sports-science/Je-Mo/Lennon-Boone.html

OK, Boone is the "Great Grandfather of the Modern Euro Pro TT Position"
Scott Tinley is the "Grandfather of the Modern Euro Pro TT Position"
And Lance is the "Father of the Modern Euro Pro TT Position"

Personally, I agree with flicker - Euro Pro's should TT like Eddy on traditional bars.
Tri-bars should be the domain of trigeeks only.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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sigh....


Polish your logic is massively flawed.

Lance was not a "Euro Pro" until AFTER Greg had already used the bars in the Pro peloton.

Therefore, Lance was something like the 200th Pro Rider to use them in a pro race (and that is being generous)
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Martin318is said:
sigh....


Polish your logic is massively flawed.

Lance was not a "Euro Pro" until AFTER Greg had already used the bars in the Pro peloton.

Therefore, Lance was something like the 200th Pro Rider to use them in a pro race (and that is being generous)

Lance used aero bars BEFORE Greg.
Lance used aero bars in Pro Races (Tri).

The Modern Euro Pro TT Position was copied from the Pro Tri Guys.

lance88.jpg
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Polish said:
Lance used aero bars BEFORE Greg.
Lance used aero bars in Pro Races (Tri).

The Modern Euro Pro TT Position was copied from the Pro Tri Guys.

lance88.jpg

But the modern pros wear pants. Isn't that different?
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Yes, Scott Tinley invented the position and then Lance followed soon after.
And the Pro Peloton followed soon after Lance.
(Of course nobody ever said Lance invented the tri-bar / tri-position)

Scott Tinley is the "Grandfather of the Modern Euro Pro TT position",
even though he never raced as a Euro Pro.

Lance is the "Father of the Modern Euro Pro TT Postition" because he is the
first euro pro to actually use it.

Actually you are both wrong. Boone Lennon invented the tri-bar/aero bar.
Look it up. http://www.faqs.org/sports-science/Je-Mo/Lennon-Boone.html[/QUOTE]

...Boone Lennon invented the tri-bar/aero-bar...well the story behind that is interesting....

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The aero bar -- as we know it -- was invented by Boone Lennon. It first became apparent in our sport in 1987. Yes, it is true that a lay-down apparatus did appear in long-distance racing earlier in the decade on RAAM rider Jim Elliott's bike. Both Richard Bryne -- founder of Speedplay -- and RAAM winner Pete Pensyres were involved in that project. The main difference between that bike and the handlebars Lennon introduced was the concept of narrowness. Elliott's forearms were at brake-lever width, as opposed to the mock-downhill-skier position espoused by Lennon. Indeed, the bars were "Scott DH bars:" DH for downhill. The idea behind Elliott's position was comfort; the idea behind Lennon's bars was aerodynamics: precisely the position achieved by a downhill skier while tucked.

I have read the patents, but I've never had the patent file pulled. Only with the entire patent file would one discover whether Lennon had disclosed Elliott's bike as (what is termed in patent law) "prior art." That might have a bearing on Lennon's patent validity. I take no position on whether or not the patent is or was valid. Regardless, Lennon has maintained over the years that his bars were significantly different than anything prior, as is explained above. He certainly started the craze. There is no doubt in my mind that if Lennon had not introduced the bars we'd still be riding old-style road technology. Roy Wallack wrote an excellent piece on the history of aero bar development in Triathlete Magazine about three years ago.

...from ...http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/features/superform.html

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...having seen the original lay-down bar and the DH elbow positions it may be more accurate to say Boone Lennon patented the tri/bar but not necessarily invented it...either way its a great story and a heck of an innovation and great work by Lennon in promoting it...

...and the following bit adds a bit more meat to this wild and crazy story...

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I was watching a copy of ABC's (USA) Wide World of Sports programming of the Race Across AMerica (RAAM) from 1986 and they showed the winner of the race, Pete Penseyres using a 'prototype' triathlete's handlebar.

Then I watched a copy of the 1986 Hawaii Ironman with Dave Scott winning over Mark Allen - none of these riders were using the tri bar then.

The RAAM was competed in during June/July, whilst the ironman was completed in October ...

I never realised until recently that the "Scott" handlebars, were named after the 'ultimate' ironman Dave Scott ...

I guess the tri bars were popularised due to Greg lemond using them, and arguably winning the Tour due to the handlebars, but he was not the first to use them in professional cycling. Apparently it was the 7-Eleven team in the Tour De Trump of the 1989 season who used them first and Lemond must have liked what he saw and brought them out in the first time trial (not the prologue) in the Tour. Like I have read, Lemond was a good 'copycat' not innovator ...?

....from...http://www.cyclingforums.com/forum/thread/193666/who-invented-the-triathlete-s-handlebars

-------------------------------------------------------------------

...sorry for this late edit but below is a link to a rather long but very interesting article on the invention of the aero-bar....its even weirder than the info posted above...

http://triathlon.competitor.com/2010/07/insidetri/was-the-first-aerobar-really-not-the-first_11039


Cheers

blutto
 
Mar 17, 2009
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History Lesson

84 Giro, Lance was 13 nearly 14.
5302488315
Lemond was using a TT bike with profiled tubes and a delta handlebar sticking straight out of the headtube a month later. Lance was still 13!!!
 
Jul 4, 2009
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sublimit said:

It figures that a ski expert came out with that position. Maybe Tinley was the first competetive user of it but who knows. Maybe it was Dave Scott or Mark Allen.[/QUOTE]
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...ok, I'm repeating myself but do read the following...you may change your mind about what you just stated/posted...

http://triathlon.competitor.com/2010/07/insidetri/was-the-first-aerobar-really-not-the-first_11039

Cheers

blutto
 
Jan 18, 2010
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blutto said:
It figures that a ski expert came out with that position. Maybe Tinley was the first competetive user of it but who knows. Maybe it was Dave Scott or Mark Allen.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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...ok, I'm repeating myself but do read the following...you may change your mind about what you just stated/posted...

http://triathlon.competitor.com/2010/07/insidetri/was-the-first-aerobar-really-not-the-first_11039

Cheers

blutto

I didnt read that piece originally sorry about that, so we are gradually getting to the bottom of this but I'm surprised about ultra endurance cycling in the USA, everybody knows of the obsession of British cycling time trialists but it sounds like the Americans were into it also.

So it turns out an American tester used this.. who would of thought that.

I still go with Obree as the man having produced 2 better streamlined positions but now are unfortunatley banned.. What people dont realise he used those in road racing on the flat as well as on the track. Anybody can do a daredevil decent in a crazy position like we see every year on big descents but anyway.. Obree should of got into speed skiing.






.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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sublimit said:
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I didnt read that piece originally sorry about that, so we are gradually getting to the bottom of this but I'm surprised about ultra endurance cycling in the USA, everybody knows of the obsession of British cycling time trialists but it sounds like the Americans were into it also.

So it turns out an American tester used this.. who would of thought that.

I still go with Obree as the man having produced 2 better streamlined positions but now are unfortunatley banned.. What people dont realise he used those in road racing on the flat as well as on the track. Anybody can do a daredevil decent in a crazy position like we see every year on big descents but anyway.. Obree should of got into speed skiing.






.

But the first guy wasn't Lance, was it?
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Oldman said:
But the first guy wasn't Lance, was it?

As I have been saying, Lance WAS the first euro pro to rock the aero bars.
Any pictures or evidence of a euro pro riding aero bars before Lance?


Anyway, fast forward to the present....
http://www.bicycle.net/2010/how-to-maximize-the-benefit-from-your-aerobars
The strong man position (Lance)
The crunched man position (Levi)
The “I wish I could do that” position (Zabriske)
The power monster position (Cancellera)
The tire toucher position (Cadel)
The British position (Bradley Wiggins)
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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MD said:
In 1989 Lance was a triathlete. In 1989 this guy "rocked" "aero bars".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvwtOQYQ-E

Why do you persist.

Jim Elliot rode aero bars before Greg...84
Pete Penseyres rode aero bars before Greg....86
And Lance rode aero bars before Greg...87

Greg owes part of his very narrow victory in 1989 to those pioneers..
Never heard him thank those guys lol. Tries to take credit instead.

lance88.jpg
 
Sep 16, 2010
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I didn't mean to say Greg was the first. Just an example of someone who used aero bars 3 years before Lance turned pro. I have no idea who was first, but I do know it wasn't Lance.

Lance road the bars as I triathlete, not as a euro pro, right ?

You said Lance was the first euro pro, he was not a euro pro in '87. So how could he have been the first euro pro to use them, when they were being used on already. Your not insinuating they looked to a 16 year old for advice.
 

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