The Real Football Thread

[Libertine Seguros]

Also, people claiming Ronaldo was a hinderance during Portugals victory in 2016 when he had like 6 goals+assists in a tournament in which portugal scored a total of 9 goals, will never stop being funny to me.

They could have scored more if they had any attacking tactics other than playing solely through Ronaldo for most of that tournament.

At that point, Ronaldo was still good enough to drag them through despite it, but to say that him having contributed to the majority of their goals meant that he wasn't part of the problem is a misnomer. After all, Harry Kane has scored 50% of England's goals at this championship, but his slowly ambling back deep to collect the ball and lack of variety in his behaviours is making it easy for defences to marshal the rest of the English threats. It's not that Harry Kane is a bad player, because he isn't; and it's not that his goals aren't helping them to scrape through. It's that the way they're set up is not getting the best out of others and isn't really getting the best out of him either.

 

[Gigs_98]

They could have scored more if they had any attacking tactics other than playing solely through Ronaldo for most of that tournament.

At that point, Ronaldo was still good enough to drag them through despite it, but to say that him having contributed to the majority of their goals meant that he wasn't part of the problem is a misnomer. After all, Harry Kane has scored 50% of England's goals at this championship, but his slowly ambling back deep to collect the ball and lack of variety in his behaviours is making it easy for defences to marshal the rest of the English threats. It's not that Harry Kane is a bad player, because he isn't; and it's not that his goals aren't helping them to scrape through. It's that the way they're set up is not getting the best out of others and isn't really getting the best out of him either.

The difference is that this england squad is stacked with talent while in 2016 Portugals second best offensive player was Fenerbahce era Nani. That squad had no right winning the euros so they played very defensive football with their entire offensive tactic being "pass it to Ronaldo so he can do something" which worked just often enough to never get eliminated. England playing the same way seems stupid but even then my point would still stand. It's the tactic that's their problem and certainly not Harry Kane.

The real antics weren't that bad. Like trying to get some soft penalties, not something we haven't seen before. It only started to get painful when he started to go for the objectively insane free kicks. For the rest it only seems crazy cause everyone is focusing on him.

Don't follow football closely enough to say confidently if he's the main issue, but I'm pretty sure that even in his late Juventus days he'd have buried that first header he dodged. They're playing a lot for crosses but he isn't winning headers anymore.

Aside from that, the rest is just aftermath of the football goat wars. He will always be compared to Messi, and every since Messi penalty farmed his way to a sportswashing World Cup, any discourse about Ronaldo has gotten super circlejerky.

I don't even like the guy, but i'm enough of an outsider in football to just notice that part objectively. Messi/Ronaldo discourse is the only sports conversations that made tennis Big 3 fan wars feel like a picnic.

Yeah I also think in the past he might have made that header. But that's exactly the point. He is still very good, just not one of the very best in the world anymore but the discourse surrounding him is basically "play like you did in your prime or we claim you are the reason for losing". There is absolutely no other striker in the world where it becomes a talking point that he didn't connect on that header.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The difference is that this england squad is stacked with talent while in 2016 Portugals second best offensive player was Fenerbahce era Nani. That squad had no right winning the euros so they played very defensive football with their entire offensive tactic being "pass it to Ronaldo so he can do something" which worked just often enough to never get eliminated. England playing the same way seems stupid but even then my point would still stand. It's the tactic that's their problem and certainly not Harry Kane.

I feel that the 2016 final is the hole in that theory, however - that Portugal played a lot better and offered more attacking threat after Ronaldo went off. I don't think it was even that he'd been playing badly or anything, more that teams knew from the outset that they were always going to pass to Ronaldo and so all they needed to do was mark him out of the game (I know, easier said than done) whereas without him, the team became less predictable. The secondary players need to be perceived as enough of a threat that the defence needs to respect them if they're going to open up space for the star; the way that Portugal played in that tournament prevented those secondary players even demonstrating whether they could be a threat.

England's problem seems to me that Kane is coming deep to get the ball, but the midfield and wide players aren't getting in behind the defenders enough, allowing them to push higher up the pitch and make Kane come even deeper still, and that when they face a team with everybody behind the ball, they're struggling to break them down. Well, that and Guéhi is now suspended for the quarter-final and I'm not convinced by their defensive depth.

 

[BullsFan22]

Apart from Germany and Spain, none of the ‘favorites’ have looked good. England, Portugal, and France scrape through (England didn’t deserve to go through). Belgium has been terrible. Netherlands likewise.

The winner of the Germany Spain match on Friday will likely decide the winner, though who knows. Those two could start playing horribly as well and could lose in the semis.

Was hoping we’d see more underdogs in the quarters, but Slovakia and Slovenia weren’t fortunate and Georgia ran out of gas.

Intrigued by the Romania Netherlands match. Should be a colorful event, as both countries have a lot of fans coming to the game. If Romania stay as organized as they have been so far, they have a chance.

 

[Gigs_98]

I feel that the 2016 final is the hole in that theory, however - that Portugal played a lot better and offered more attacking threat after Ronaldo went off. I don't think it was even that he'd been playing badly or anything, more that teams knew from the outset that they were always going to pass to Ronaldo and so all they needed to do was mark him out of the game (I know, easier said than done) whereas without him, the team became less predictable. The secondary players need to be perceived as enough of a threat that the defence needs to respect them if they're going to open up space for the star; the way that Portugal played in that tournament prevented those secondary players even demonstrating whether they could be a threat.

England's problem seems to me that Kane is coming deep to get the ball, but the midfield and wide players aren't getting in behind the defenders enough, allowing them to push higher up the pitch and make Kane come even deeper still, and that when they face a team with everybody behind the ball, they're struggling to break them down. Well, that and Guéhi is now suspended for the quarter-final and I'm not convinced by their defensive depth.

So you've got me far enough to desperately search for xG values for that final which I just couldn't find. So I sat down watching the hightllights of that game again. Here is a complete list of all of Portugals chances:

-A cross which accidently goes on target
-A header after a corner kick
-A freek kick
-Eders one in a hundred shot to win it.

The last three of them all happened in extra time. So in summary they had two somewhat dangerous moments from open play all 120 minutes and even then both shots came from outside the box. Yeah, Ronaldo getting injured and Portugal suddenly starting to play well is a myth. They remained decent but the only reason to think Ronaldo going out actually made them better is confirmation bias.

 

[Põhja Konn]

So you've got me far enough to desperately search for xG values for that final which I just couldn't find. So I sat down watching the hightllights of that game again. Here is a complete list of all of Portugals chances:

-A cross which accidently goes on target
-A header after a corner kick
-A freek kick
-Eders one in a hundred shot to win it.

The last three of them all happened in extra time. So in summary they had two somewhat dangerous moments from open play all 120 minutes and even then both shots came from outside the box. Yeah, Ronaldo getting injured and Portugal suddenly starting to play well is a myth. They remained decent but the only reason to think Ronaldo going out actually made them better is confirmation bias.

What I remember about 2016 is the theory of Portugals defence getting more solid when Ronaldo went out of the game, as his questionable defensive work ethic was perceived as potentially decisive flaw against opponents like France.

Their attack getting more fluid and dangerous without Ronaldo is a more recent phenomenon, when he was already declining as player. It was quite evident during the last World Cup. Their then coach Santos clearly realised it too and dropped him.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So you've got me far enough to desperately search for xG values for that final which I just couldn't find. So I sat down watching the hightllights of that game again. Here is a complete list of all of Portugals chances:

-A cross which accidently goes on target
-A header after a corner kick
-A freek kick
-Eders one in a hundred shot to win it.

The last three of them all happened in extra time. So in summary they had two somewhat dangerous moments from open play all 120 minutes and even then both shots came from outside the box. Yeah, Ronaldo getting injured and Portugal suddenly starting to play well is a myth. They remained decent but the only reason to think Ronaldo going out actually made them better is confirmation bias.

Hey, baby steps, they may not have had much end product but far more players were sound and involved going forward once they were forced to use a tactic other than passing to Ronaldo or being shouted at by Ronaldo for not passing the ball to him.

That Portugal team - save for the one game against Hungary - was a depressing spectacle to watch, the kind of football that made Greece 2004 look like Brazil 1982. I'd never seen a team with such a gulf between the quality of players and the quality of play before, although England 2024 seem to be trying to match it.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Get Dumfries red carded. He's on a yellow already, that should be a retrospective suspension if I ever saw one. That was absolutely f***ing disgusting, Rivaldo-level cheating. There's simulation, there's blatant fakery, and then that was on a whole other level beyond that.

Romania got absolutely screwed there, counter-attack wiped out for no reason with a "high boot" that got somewhere vaguely in the vicinity of Dumfries' stomach before he does a flying evasive manoeuvre holding his face like he's just been struck, so Romania lose their attack, they get a player booked for no reason, and then they immediately go back and concede. Although tbf the defender just cannot switch off like that and assume the ball is gonna go out, that's lazy play that you should always get punished for at this level.

 

[Netserk]

One of the better games of those I've watched so far, even if it's been very one-sided.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

One of the better games of those I've watched so far, even if it's been very one-sided.

Romania are a good team to watch. Compared to a lot of similar level teams who succeed on the basis of being well drilled and well organised, they have more flair, but do not trust their defence to the same extent and commit a lot more to the attack as a result. They don't have the quality once they get to this part of the tournament, but they are a lot more entertaining to watch than a lot of teams of similar kind of strength because it always feels there are goals out there.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

120 minutes of England vs. Slovakia. 120 minutes of Portugal vs. Slovenia.

Only 90 minutes of Turkey vs. Austria.

No justice in this world.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

That save by the keeper in the dying minute of the game was simply spectacular,

 

[Põhja Konn]

There are times when the underdog prevailing is not something to be happy about. This is one of those times. Absolute fluke of a goal in the first minute of the game and a save of a lifetime from the goalkeeper in the last tell all one needs to know.

Nothing against Turkey, which has been quite a nice side watch this tournament, but Austria was the kind of likeable favourite who would have had a lot more to offer further into the tournament. Really sad to see them go out like that to a clearly inferior opponent.

 

[Forever The Best]

in 2016 Portugals second best offensive player was Fenerbahce era Nani.

As someone who followed Süper Lig more back then: Quaresma > Nani in 2016.

 

[Forever The Best]

Annoyed by all the Merih hype. Really don't like the guy after he said nothing about Turkish Super Cup debacle in Saudi. (Basically, the Saudis disrespected Ataturk and GS and FB didn't play the game and Merih did not say anything against Saudis)

 

[BullsFan22]

So out of the underdogs I wanted to see win in the knockout stages, only Turkey have made the 1/4.

Now I am going for a Germany-Netherlands final. An old, classic derby that hasn’t happened at a major tournament since the 2012 Euros, I believe.

 

[snipeheem]

Germany-Spain gonna best insane match, two best teams on Euro

 

[BullsFan22]

Germany-Spain gonna best insane match, two best teams on Euro

Both teams with a good mix of youth and experience. Should be a good match. Germany scoring first, and early, would really be good for the atmosphere as then the home fans will be into it and Spain will have to chase and it could be a back and forth. I don’t think either team will ‘park the bus.’

 

[snipeheem]

Both teams with a good mix of youth and experience. Should be a good match. Germany scoring first, and early, would really be good for the atmosphere as then the home fans will be into it and Spain will have to chase and it could be a back and forth. I don’t think either team will ‘park the bus.’

Yeah i agree it should be a open match but France-Portugal might be boring those 2 are not playing great right now

 

[BullsFan22]

Yeah i agree it should be a open match but France-Portugal might be boring those 2 are not playing great right now

Yeah it seems that the underdog teams have played with more passion so far. The top teams seem to be more ‘calculating’ in their approaches. I understand that a bit, but still disappointed by the overall quality at this tournament.

The Dutch could be gaining form. We’ll see how they do against a feisty and motivated Turkish team.

 

[Põhja Konn]

This was a complete disgrace from the ref. He clearly new he had f''''d up, as he gave three times as much stoppage time than the game really required at the end.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Now you lot have to suffer Anthony Taylor like we do on a weekly basis. Next up, Portugal vs France, vs Michael Oliver vs Ronaldo.

These two teams have been so dull that Oliver is a welcome addition to hopefully get in there with a few poor decisions and make things a bit more interesting.

 

[Netserk]

I had expected more melodrama from Portugal. And what is this, Ronaldo not even taking the free kick.

 

[Tim Cahill]

OG is the beating heart of France, and they disrespect him time and time again.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

This one had 0-0 and penalties written all over it. One goal should sort it.