The Real Football Thread

[gooner]

Not the best performance today but that has been the case recently in other away wins like QPR and Fulham. The result is all that mattered in the end and considering how the season went, 4th has to be a sufficient for now when you remember we were 10th after the Swansea defeat last December.

A big summer ahead and unless Arsenal and Wenger have ambitious ideas for the future I can see a similar season ahead next year. At the moment they are a million miles off winning a league and my hope is for 4/5 new signings along with getting Wilshere fully fit for the new season. And when I say 4/5 new players, not ones like Park, Squillaci, Santos and Gervinho from previous summers. Anymore like that and the game is well and truly up.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Not the best performance today but that has been the case recently in other away wins like QPR and Fulham. The result is all that mattered in the end and considering how the season went, 4th has to be a sufficient for now when you remember we were 10th after the Swansea defeat last December.

A big summer ahead and unless Arsenal and Wenger have ambitious ideas for the future I can see a similar season ahead next year. At the moment they are a million miles off winning a league and my hope is for 4/5 new signings along with getting Wilshere fully fit for the new season. And when I say 4/5 new players, not ones like Park, Squillaci, Santos and Gervinho from previous summers. Anymore like that and the game is well and truly up.

Hypothetical question.

Will you take Rafa over Wenger? I have die hard gooner friends and they are fed up with Arsene.

 

[gooner]

Hypothetical question.

Will you take Rafa over Wenger?

No.

I like Rafa and I think he is a good coach but his transfer record is mixed.

I remember him once saying near the end of his Liverpool spell he couldn't compete with Chelsea, United and believe it or not, Arsenal in the transfer market. His comments regarding the last two clubs was totally wrong at the time. Ferguson even got the finance department at United to check it out if true and it showed Rafa spent more than Ferguson during his time at Liverpool. As for Arsenal they are far from big spenders and I don't know how he came to that conclusion. Also take Tom Hicks who said after they sacked Rafa, that he also spent more than Ferguson as well and that he was deflecting his mistakes on to other people. Nunez, Gonzalez, Barragan, Morientes, Pellegrino, Babel, Leto, Riera, Josemi, Paletta, Ngog, Keane, Dossena, Cavalieri, Aquilani. You wouldn't call Crouch and Bellamy resounding successes either. He also flooded the academy with many average foreign signings like Ayala, Pacheca, Nemeth, Mavinga, Brouwers, etc. Only Suso looks like anyone with a bit of potential.

If you have a mixed transfer record at Chelsea and Man City, it wouldn't too bad as a benefactor can take the loss and write off transfer flops. But when your club is self-sufficient like Arsenal and this can't be done, you have to have a lot more success than failure when you're active in the transfer market. This is why I would have reservations about Rafa.

Wenger has a year left in contract and may leave then. When if he does decide to leave I think he will have a say in his successor. He has spoken of Dragan Stojkovic succeeding him, who was a great player in his day and is now manager of Nagoya Grampus Eight where he won the league, something Wenger didn't manage to do when he was managing them in the 90's. He has a year left on his contract as well and they are great friends and I wonder will the timing fit in perfectly with this.

Lots of gooners like myself are fed up of him alright. I thought it was a bit embarrassing the way he went on to the pitch celebrating with the players today. 4th is nothing to celebrate about and this just shows how far we have fallen since the invincibles season. It's his spin doctoring that cheeses me off the most like saying 4th is a trophy and would take it over the FA and League Cup. That's pathetic and he never had that mentality when he first came to England initially. He is only trying to deflect from his many mistakes he has made in recent seasons and that doesn't wash anymore. You can see right through this.

 

[Cyivel]

As a Spurs fan today was a bit annoying, I don't think we have been that good this year, Bale has been outstanding and has rescued us a lot but overall I can't complain about not finishing 4th, we needed a striker in January and need one or two now, some good things this season which hopefully bode well for next year are Lloris and Vertonghen having good seasons and settling in well, Dembele was good a fair bit as well, Sandro was very impressive pre-injury and hopefully with him fit next year and Holtby and Sigurdsson having more of an impact the midfield looks strong, also was unsure of Villas-Boas (although I thought he had a bit of a raw deal at Chelsea) but he seems to have learned from his time at Chelsea at that looks good going forward.

Also no shock but Walker got exposed this year.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Dramatic stuff Milan qualify for the CL...sad for Fiorentina. Milan need all three points to make it and they achieved that in the last 6 mins. Walter Mazzarri is leaving Napoli.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

As a Spurs fan today was a bit annoying, I don't think we have been that good this year, Bale has been outstanding and has rescued us a lot but overall I can't complain about not finishing 4th, we needed a striker in January and need one or two now, some good things this season which hopefully bode well for next year are Lloris and Vertonghen having good seasons and settling in well, Dembele was good a fair bit as well, Sandro was very impressive pre-injury and hopefully with him fit next year and Holtby and Sigurdsson having more of an impact the midfield looks strong, also was unsure of Villas-Boas (although I thought he had a bit of a raw deal at Chelsea) but he seems to have learned from his time at Chelsea at that looks good going forward.

Also no shock but Walker got exposed this year.

Is Bale staying?

 

[Cyivel]

Is Bale staying?

I think so for one more season at least, if we don't improve the squad and qualify for Champions League next year then I think he will leave at that point, I wouldn't blame him for that in the slightest.

Of course if we get a ridiculous bid from Madrid/Barca or possibly even PSG then maybe he will go but I get the feeling he is happy to be at Tottenham next year.

 

[gooner]

Dramatic stuff Milan qualify for the CL...sad for Fiorentina. Milan need all three points to make it and they achieved that in the last 6 mins. Walter Mazzarri is leaving Napoli.

Mazzari done an excellent job. Probably feels he has taken them as far as he can as they lost Lavezzi last year and more than likely will lose Cavani now.

Is Bale staying?

Bale only signed a year extension to his existing deal last year and I can't see him playing another year in the Europa League. Just look at Fabregas, Clichy, Nasri and RVP at Arsenal where even Champions League qualification wasn't good enough for them. They wanted to win trophies and I think the same applies to Bale now. Champions League qualification probably wouldn't have been enough for him either and a player of his quality will want to win trophies. Not disrespecting Spurs here, but they will not win the League in the near future or the Champions League if they were in it. And they have a strict wage bill where they pay significantly less than the other clubs that will be competing for his signature.

The question for me, is will he stay in the Premiership or go abroad now. Zidane has been talking up Real's hopes of signing him.

 

[Cyivel]

Two different answers, both hopeful in different ways I guess

Hope we sell him abroad for sure.

 

[gooner]

Just seen this from the respected website Swiss Ramble who write about the business side of football. It displays the difference in wages between Bayern and Dortmund in recent seasons. This just shows what a remarkable job Klopp has done since 2008 with the resources he has had to work with. Everyone goes on about Pep and the job he done in his 4 years at Barca but I think what Klopp has done even surpasses that. No way Pep could do as good as job as this with that budget if he was at Dortmund.

 

[gooner]

I find this staggering.

Manchester United earned a record £60.8 million in Premier League TV money after winning the title - but even the club that finishes bottom next season will exceed that income due to the top flight's huge new broadcasting deals.

The Premier League is close to finalising its deals which will see a total of around £5.5 billion in broadcasting rights for the 2013-16 period - some £2bn more than the current deals.

The league champions next season can expect to earn close to £100m in broadcast earnings while the bottom club, which this season was Queens Park Rangers, can expect their earnings to go up from £39.8m to around £63m - more than United earned from the most recent campaign.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...United-top-Premier-League-TV-money-table.html

 

[The Hitch]

Some team i never heard of from Cusco (ancient Inca capital) are in the Copa Libertadores quarter finals.

Turns out i never heard of them cos they were only formed a couple of years ago, and now fighting it out with big century old teams.

How the **** that happened i dont know.

 

[Christian]

Just seen this from the respected website Swiss Ramble who write about the business side of football. It displays the difference in wages between Bayern and Dortmund in recent seasons. This just shows what a remarkable job Klopp has done since 2008 with the resources he has had to work with. Everyone goes on about Pep and the job he done in his 4 years at Barca but I think what Klopp has done even surpasses that. No way Pep could do as good as job as this with that budget if he was at Dortmund.

Thanks, very interesting statistic! And I agree - Klopp is one of the best managers on the planet, simply a genius. He is great at signing young talents and making them amazing players. Kagawa, Götze, Lewandowski, Hummels, Schmelzer, Subotic, Pisczek - some of them were completely unknown before he signed them (Kagawa, Schmelzer), others only revealed their full potential under him (Hummels, Subotic, Pisczek), others developed in an incredible way (Lewandowski). Then they sell for much higher prices such as Kagawa (bought for 350.000€ and sold for over 15 million), Barrios and now likely Lewandowski too.

But for the next season they have announced that they will now also sign accomplished players. Edin Dzeko has been rumoured, as has FC Porto's forward, Jackson (?). So I assume the salaries will go up next year.

 

[WKA311]

Some team i never heard of from Cusco (ancient Inca capital) are in the Copa Libertadores quarter finals.

Turns out i never heard of them cos they were only formed a couple of years ago, and now fighting it out with big century old teams.

How the **** that happened i dont know.

Another rich man in the background probably.

I really dislike this development in the international football business. I mean you can't stop the commercialisation at all, but there have to be strict boundaries in this cases.
Here in Germany the prime example, Hoffenheim, is fighting to survive in the bundesliga at the moment against Kaiserslautern. All football fans i know from various Clubs are wishing Kaiserslautern to win. Hoffenheim is the most hated Club in Germany (well maybe its bayern) because of their way of success and Dietmar Hopp in the background. They havent got a history and they havent got any good support.
Otherwise the good thing is that we havent got many of these clubs, and some of them like the Red Bull sponsored RB Leipzig don't progress at all. Their goal is to play champions league, but they failed to improve over the last years and are still stuck in 4th league.
And the other good sign, our traditional clubs like Bayern, Dortmund, Schalke etc. have solid finances and aren't making new debts so i guess in other countries its worse.

 

[gooner]

Another rich man in the background probably.

I really dislike this development in the international football business. I mean you can't stop the commercialisation at all, but there have to be strict boundaries in this cases.
Here in Germany the prime example, Hoffenheim, is fighting to survive in the bundesliga at the moment against Kaiserslautern. All football fans i know from various Clubs are wishing Kaiserslautern to win. Hoffenheim is the most hated Club in Germany (well maybe its bayern) because of their way of success and Dietmar Hopp in the background. They havent got a history and they havent got any good support.
Otherwise the good thing is that we havent got many of these clubs, and some of them like the Red Bull sponsored RB Leipzig don't progress at all. Their goal is to play champions league, but they failed to improve over the last years and are still stuck in 4th league.
And the other good sign, our traditional clubs like Bayern, Dortmund, Schalke etc. have solid finances and aren't making new debts so i guess in other countries its worse.

Didn't Hopp lose money a few years back when the credit crunch hit? They had a good manager in Rangnick but he left over the sale of Gustavo to Bayern. Hoffenheim is really only a village anyway and only a benefactor would get them to the Bundesliga in the first place.

I think German clubs are a shining light in the way the game should go as all have to be 51% member or fan owned. It keeps an identity with the fans. Only Leverkusen and Wolfsburg aren't like this but when this rule was brought in, their ownership structure was already in place and couldn't be affected as a result.

To be fair I wish English clubs had this rule long go. Too late now.

 

[Cyivel]

Europa League winners to qualify for Champions League from 2015, good decision!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22640095

 

[gooner]

I thought Bayern deserved it tonight even though they had a bit of luck as Dante should have been sent off after he gave away a penalty kick on Reus. Dortmund came out of the traps well and were on top for the first 25 mins with Gundogan standing out earlier on but after that Bayern came into it and were the better side for the remainder of the game. Bender and Groskreutz were anonymous and the defensive partnership of Subotic and Hummels weren't tight enough as a unit.

Arsene Wenger on French TV tonight said Lewandowski to Bayern is done and along with the Gotze sale it leaves a huge hole in the team going forward. They did replace Sahin and Kagawa well in the past but Klopp, Zorc and Watzke can't keep pulling gems out of the bag all the time. They will get a lot of money through these sales but as we seen in the graph I posted previously Dortmund aren't huge payers in terms of wages and therefore could find it harder to replace the players of that quality.

As for Bayern, I can see nothing stopping them from dominating the German League in the next few years with Guardiola as he inherits this team along with two quality signings and who knows how many more. Maybe another centre-back with Badstuber's long-term injury would be a priority now.

They should have no problem making it a treble next Saturday against Stuttgart in the German Cup final.

 

[The Hitch]

Mandjukic, Mueller and Gomez are out of this world as is. Lewandowski is most likely going to do exactly the same thing and at best will be a minor imrpovement on what they currently have

A lot of money to spend for that, unless they just want to **** off dortmund.

Could have been better put towards replacing that braindead cb dante, who was the only thing that could have stopped Bayern winning today.

 

[gooner]

Mandjukic, Mueller and Gomez are out of this world as is. Lewandowski is most likely going to do exactly the same thing and at best will be a minor imrpovement on what they currently have

A lot of money to spend for that, unless they just want to **** off dortmund.

Could have been better put towards replacing that braindead cb dante, who was the only thing that could have stopped Bayern winning today.

Mandzukic has done well and Gomez has been a great goal scorer but Lewandowki's link up play and awareness is a lot better than those two. He is a more cultured footballer and is better at bringing attacking midfielders around him into play.

I say they still have money to play with for a centre back and they have been linked with Koscielny heavily even though they won't get him. All things point to them still being in the market here with Badstuber's injury.

 

[Christian]

Bender and Groskreutz were anonymous and the defensive partnership of Subotic and Hummels weren't tight enough as a unit.

Bender always plays anonimously but most agree that he is an integral part of Dortmund's succes. He is probably the only pure "destroyer" in the team. Subotic I thought did a good game but Hummels lacked in many situations. He has had many blunders this champions league season. In general the defense was not good enough today. Pisczek was the best of them IMO. For next year they have hired Sokratis from Bremen to replace Santana who will likely leave for Schalke. I think that will be an improvement.

Arsene Wenger on French TV tonight said Lewandowski to Bayern is done and along with the Gotze sale it leaves a huge hole in the team going forward. They did replace Sahin and Kagawa well in the past but Klopp, Zorc and Watzke can't keep pulling gems out of the bag all the time. They will get a lot of money through these sales but as we seen in the graph I posted previously Dortmund aren't huge payers in terms of wages and therefore could find it harder to replace the players of that quality.

They have said that they will "use some serious money", which now they have. Their gains from the Champions League are over €50 million, plus the €37 million from Götze, plus maybe another €30 million for Lewandowski. Some candidates have been Edin Dzeko and Jackson (FC Porto) for the forward position. Those are not talents but already accomplished players. The problem indeed is the salary. They can't pay what Dzeko would normally get. But I think it could still be possible for them to get him. Other candidates include Erikson from Amsterdam and Bernard, a brazilian talent.

Mandjukic, Mueller and Gomez are out of this world as is. Lewandowski is most likely going to do exactly the same thing and at best will be a minor imrpovement on what they currently have

A lot of money to spend for that, unless they just want to **** off dortmund.

Could have been better put towards replacing that braindead cb dante, who was the only thing that could have stopped Bayern winning today.

Bayern have never had a plan. Their policy has always been to observe what other German teams are doing and then buy all their best players. That's what they did with Leverkusen, Bremen and now Dortmund. Any team in the Bundesliga is basically just a feeding team for Bayern. They have more money than they know what to do with. You should see the people that sit in their executive committee - all CEO's of Germany's biggest companies. There is no limit to the money.

But Gomez for example doesn't fit into Guardiola's strategy. He is still a forward from the old days, so unless he really changes his game I don't know if he has much of a future at Bayern under Guardiola. Also the reason why Guardiola wanted Götze is because he realized that even he couldn't turn Schweini into Messi

 

[The Hitch]

guardiola doesnt need to turn goetze into messi. Hes already got messi in robben (the way he played today was as good as the real deal)

 

[gooner]

Jackson would be a good signing but I can see no hope of Dzeko happening with his wages like you say. Another one going around and would be more realistic is Benteke with Aston Villa.

 

[Christian]

guardiola doesnt need to turn goetze into messi. Hes already got messi in robben (the way he played today was as good as the real deal)

No doubt Robben is a great player, albeit a *** and often injured, but I think Götze is a much more similar player to Messi than him. So if he wants to continue a similar style as in Barcelona I think Götze will be his best (local) bet

 

[Christian]

Jackson would be a good signing but I can see no hope of Dzeko happening with his wages like you say. Another one going around and would be more realistic is Benteke with Aston Villa.

Ah yes he has also been mentioned in some articles as being a candidate

 

[Christian]

But there is also a chance that Lewandowski will stay, Dortmund said they'd rather keep him for one more year and then let him go for free because they don't need the money. They put a deadline for a "very substantial offer" to May 15th but so far there has been no talk of an actual offer coming in