The Real Football Thread

[gooner]

Frisk ended his career due to the death threats. Mourinho claimed Frisk and Rijkaard were up to no good and some of those idiot Chelsea fans bought into it. Mourinho did nothing to quell the hatred towards Frisk and there is certainly a line you draw with regards to this.

I didn't think it was the best season for football overall but that was more due to the lack of competition in the major title races around Europe where United, PSG, Barca, Juve and Bayern had the leagues wrapped up with little opposition. Even if we take Scotland there isn't even an Old Firm game anymore and it's just a one team league now. The last day of the Premiership didn't have the drama of a relegation battle and it lacked suspense. This is why football lacked entertainment this season, nothing got to do with the so called box office affect that people somehow think Mourinho brings.

We watch the game for what happens on the green grass and the joy of watching Messi and Co do their stuff. Not some sideshow in a press conference or some stupid so-called mind games that they media try to potray goes on between the various managers. These mind games have no effect on what happens on the pitch and it's managers like Mourinho who try to build up their own importance by using it and thinking it's effective. Ancellotti never engaged in it and won a double at Chelsea so to say you have to stoop to it to gain an advantage is frankly a load of rubbish. Lots of managers do it but the worst is by far and away Mourinho and Ferguson who blantantly talk about referees before matches in the hope of influencing them to get the big decisions. I wouldn't call Wenger a shining light in this either.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Well, first of all, remember - speak for yourself A lot of 'we' here, altough many would perhaps agree with you.

Overeacting much when saying "Anders Frisk had to retire over him"... Mourinho is probably not the most sane, fair and forgiving person after a performance like that from Frisk, but linking his comments to death threats - which as you say was the reason for his retirement - from the Chelsea fans is laughable really. As if the same stupid Chelsea fans wouldn't have, in case Mourinho had said 'no comment' on the matter, sent death threats anyway...

It's no news that you either love or hate the man. I don't take every single thing he says literally and that makes me able to have a good laugh instead. I'm big football fan - mainly for the stuff on the pitch. That doesn't mean I can appreciate a bit of b'ull****ting off it. As long as it's not only that - and even you can't argue against the fact that he is a bloody good manager who is well regarded by the players he's been working with - perhaps bar er certain goalkeeper (whose performances finally was justified by a role on the bench..)

 

[gooner]

Well, first of all, remember - speak for yourself A lot of 'we' here, altough many would perhaps agree with you.

We watch it primarily for what happens on the pitch. Is that good enough for you?

Overeacting much when saying "Anders Frisk had to retire over him"... Mourinho is probably not the most sane, fair and forgiving person after a performance like that from Frisk, but linking his comments to death threats - which as you say was the reason for his retirement - from the Chelsea fans is laughable really. As if the same stupid Chelsea fans wouldn't have, in case Mourinho had said 'no comment' on the matter, sent death threats anyway...

It was the toxic behaviour of Mourinho which lead to this as he questioned Frisk's intergrity where he straight out implied he was biased to Barcelona. Saying something serious as that was always going to open Frisk up to severe criticism from Chelsea fans and Mourinho never backed down from that claim which made matters worse. A UEFA spokesperson called him an enemy of football over all this and his toxic behaviour led to it. Plenty of teams have got bad decisions against Barca in the past. An example was Van Persie getting sent off for Arsenal in the Nou Camp in the last 16 of the Champions League. Wenger criticised the decision but did he say the referee was biased and favoured Barca with something untoward going on. No he didn't. Wenger and Nasri got charged by UEFA over their behaviour to officials over it. Mourinho used this in his rant after losing to Barca in the Champions League as an example of a conspiracy where UEFA and referees favour Barca. Wenger responded instantly saying he disagreed totally with Mourinho's remarks. I notice Arsenal fans didn't give death threats to that referee so to say the Frisk one wasn't linked with Mourinho's behaviour is a load of nonsense. If Mourinho just criticised the decision to send off Drogba without bringing up Frisk's so called favouritism to Barca none of this would have got to the level which brought about the death threats to Frisk in the first place. Like I said all clubs get bad decisions against them but many other managers still don't come out with this tosh like Mourinho does.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I would really love him to see him manage a national team..to see how good or bad he really is.

 

[gooner]

I would really love him to see him manage a national team..to see how good or bad he really is.

I know he succeeded at Porto but I would like to see what he could do in one of the major leagues at a club like Liverpool where finances have to be managed more on self-sufficient basis. He has had huge budgets at Chelsea, Madrid and Inter. I have my doubts he would do well. Nevertheless it won't happen, he will only go where ever the money is and where he is backed hugely by a benefactor or president. He never really has developed young talent at any of the clubs he has been at and this is something he turns a blind eye to as he plans every job on a short-term basis.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I know he succeeded at Porto but I would like to see what he could do in one of the major leagues at a club like Liverpool where finances have to be managed more on self-sufficient basis. He has had huge budgets at Chelsea, Madrid and Inter. I have my doubts he would do well. Nevertheless it won't happen, he will only go where ever the money is and where he is backed hugely by a benefactor or president. He never really has developed young talent at any of the clubs he has been at and this is something he turns a blind eye to as he plans every job on a short-term basis.

yeah, true that.

 

[Amsterhammer]

I'm delighted that the loathsome 'Special One' has returned to the club I hate the most. All is right again with the world.

 

[DominicDecoco]

It was the toxic behaviour of Mourinho which lead to this as he questioned Frisk's intergrity where he straight out implied he was biased to Barcelona. Saying something serious as that was always going to open Frisk up to severe criticism from Chelsea fans and Mourinho never backed down from that claim which made matters worse. A UEFA spokesperson called him an enemy of football over all this and his toxic behaviour led to it. Plenty of teams have got bad decisions against Barca in the past. An example was Van Persie getting sent off for Arsenal in the Nou Camp in the last 16 of the Champions League. Wenger criticised the decision but did he say the referee was biased and favoured Barca with something untoward going on. No he didn't. Wenger and Nasri got charged by UEFA over their behaviour to officials over it. Mourinho used this in his rant after losing to Barca in the Champions League as an example of a conspiracy where UEFA and referees favour Barca. Wenger responded instantly saying he disagreed totally with Mourinho's remarks. I notice Arsenal fans didn't give death threats to that referee so to say the Frisk one wasn't linked with Mourinho's behaviour is a load of nonsense. If Mourinho just criticised the decision to send off Drogba without bringing up Frisk's so called favouritism to Barca none of this would have got to the level which brought about the death threats to Frisk in the first place. Like I said all clubs get bad decisions against them but many other managers still don't come out with this tosh like Mourinho does.

A LOT of managers do exactly come out with this 'tosh'. Kudos to Arsenal fans that they don't send death threats - they must be smarter than Chelsea fans. Saying that Mourinho's comments, about the ref being biased, are linked to as incitement for the fans resulting in making them sending threats is not only a postulate but also 'a load of nonsense'. Worse things were said by a certain manager, who just retired, every single week - that didn't make the fans go kamikaze with death threats and stuff like that. The very few Chelsea fans would have sent these threats anyway because the these fans are apparently effing stupid. Everyone I know always has a witty comment about 'Uefalona' or something like that as Barcelona seemed to get everything from the refs. It's not José who 'discovered' that in the first place.

All of this is about Jose calling your man a 'voyeur', isn't it.. Well, who knows what secret equipment and cameras he's hiding in that ridiculous oversized coat of his but it sure is interfering with his zipper..

 

[Alphabet]

Good to see Mourinho back, hopefully he can get us moving back in the right direction. As an added plus, it'll be great to see him giving it large in the media. The 'voyeur' comment was brilliant, Jose at his best, incredibly offensive. He's such a WUM

 

[Parrulo]

I know he succeeded at Porto but I would like to see what he could do in one of the major leagues at a club like Liverpool where finances have to be managed more on self-sufficient basis. He has had huge budgets at Chelsea, Madrid and Inter. I have my doubts he would do well. Nevertheless it won't happen, he will only go where ever the money is and where he is backed hugely by a benefactor or president. He never really has developed young talent at any of the clubs he has been at and this is something he turns a blind eye to as he plans every job on a short-term basis.

He had some success? He won everything he could have won in a space of 2 years on a low budget club.

Its total bull**** to say Mourinho only wins because he is on high budget teams when he is the only manager on the current top tier of managers to have won everything on a low budget team. A real low bugdet team not "low budget" team like liverpool or AC milan

 

[gooner]

He had some success? He won everything he could have won in a space of 2 years on a low budget club.

Its total bull**** to say Mourinho only wins because he is on high budget teams when he is the only manager on the current top tier of managers to have won everything on a low budget team. A real low bugdet team not "low budget" team like liverpool or AC milan

Where did I say some success? I said he succeeded at Porto.

With all due respect to the Portuguese League it's different doing it in a major league and combining the Champions League in the process.

You say Milan. Milan only won the League in 2012 under Allegri. Not a good example. The reason why I said Liverpool is they haven't won the league in over 20 years and haven't put up a challenge since 2008/2009. They also don't pay wages of up to £200,000 a week and he would be working under a budget in comparison to City, Chelsea and United. Similiarly with Arsenal who have the restrictions in finance due to a new stadium. For instance in 2009 Wenger had £13m to spend which included wages and his budget for new contracts for existing players. Wenger had to sell Toure and Adebayor for a combined £40m and bought Vermaelen for £10m and gave contracts using the profit to Walcott and Van Persie who had 12 months remaining on his new contract. Would Mourinho work or could work under these restrictions? I don't think so. Currently I think Arsenal need a new impetus and a change as I think Wenger has lost his way in the last 2/3 years with mediocre signings but Mourinho's name wouldn't be on my list to replace him or thankfully the Arsenal board either. It's why a manager of Klopp, Moyes and Pellegrini would be more suited to it for their respective work with Dortmund, Everton and Villarreal. I posted a graph a few pages back contrasting the difference in wages between Dortmund and Munich where it showed the excellent job that Klopp has done over recent years. Again I don't think Mourinho would do a better or as good a job as that and it's much harder to do it week in week out in a major League competing along these lines.

Take some of his signings. Shaun Wright-Phillips £24m who flopped hugely. That can be written off by Abramovich and Mourinho still got loads of cash afterwards. Yet if he was at Arsenal and Liverpool that sum would be a huge chunk in his budget and in the case of the first few years in the Emirates, at Arsenal probably even bigger. If that was spent at these clubs Mourinho wouldn't be able to spend considerably for the time being after as these clubs don't have benefactors. I could add in some other signings like Tiago, Mikel, Kezman, Jarosik, Boulahrouz and Del Horno. Similiarly the first season at Inter where he wasted huge amounts on failures like Mancini, Quaresma and Muntari. No way could you get away with that at a club like Arsenal or Liverpool and still get backed continually. It's a different world when the club is run more on a self-sufficient basis.

And an insight into what he may do with limited resources is near the end of his time at Chelsea before he left. Mourinho had the cheek to say he wasn't backed by Abramovich who insisted on a more stylist play of football. Sidwell, Pizarro and Ben Haim were signings which says it all and he had no youth system to fall back on whhere he turned a blind eye to it as he took it for granted that Abramovich would always give in to his need for huge signings.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

And the score line keeps getting bigger. Mourinho homers have anymore points?

 

[del1962]

I just wish Mourhinho would come and manage Newcastle, though he would probably still fail, managers graveyard and all that

 

[Parrulo]

And the score line keeps getting bigger. Mourinho homers have anymore points?

Its not a question of lack of points, i simply leave any argument where i get replied with a 500 word essay after my very first post.

 

[gooner]

Its not a question of lack of points, i simply leave any argument where i get replied with a 500 word essay after my very first post.

You can't call someone's post BS and then not expect that poster to try to respond in detail defending it's argument.

 

[gooner]

Anyone else watching the U-21 European Championships in Israel at the moment?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Italy V Norway on saturday semi-final.

 

[gooner]

Italy V Norway on saturday semi-final.

Italy v Holland. They played Norway yesterday.

That should be a great game. The Dutch have brought 12 players capped by the senior side while Italy are the side who are probably just behind Spain in impressing most. Looking forward to seeing how Veratti will do against Strootman, Van Ginkel and Maher in midfield. That's where the Dutch is most at it's strongest.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Italy v Holland. They played Norway yesterday.

That should be a great game. The Dutch have brought 12 players capped by the senior side while Italy are the side who are probably just behind Spain in impressing most. Looking forward to seeing how Veratti will do against Strootman, Van Ginkel and Maher in midfield. That's where the Dutch is most at it's strongest.

Brain fart

 

[Amsterhammer]

Italy V Norway on saturday semi-final.

Yup, of course we've been watching over here. I would have preferred to see Holland play Norway in the semis. It doesn't really matter though, because even though the Dutch have a number of 'senior' players in the squad, anyone with two working eyeballs has seen that Spain are, by some distance, the best team in the tournament and deserve to win.

Isco, in particular, is a true fan's wet dream and an absolute joy to watch! I just hope he doesn't wind up at Citeh or Chavscum after the offers come flying in after this is over.

 

[gooner]

Yup, of course we've been watching over here. I would have preferred to see Holland play Norway in the semis. It doesn't really matter though, because even though the Dutch have a number of 'senior' players in the squad, anyone with two working eyeballs has seen that Spain are, by some distance, the best team in the tournament and deserve to win.

Isco, in particular, is a true fan's wet dream and an absolute joy to watch! I just hope he doesn't wind up at Citeh or Chavscum after the offers come flying in after this is over.

Not just Isco, Thiago and Illaramendi with R.Sociedad have been exceptional as well. Illaramendi in particular is very much in the mould of a Xabi Alonso(also ex-Sociedad), great range of passing and knows when to hit it long and keep it short at the right times. Morata too has been finishing well. I remember him in the U-19 European Championships a couple of years back where he destroyed Ireland. I thought he deserved more opportunites at Madrid but with Mourinho at the helm giving young players opportunites to perform is wishful thinking. Their play is practically on a telepathic level. Hope they win too.

Hard to know where Isco will end up. I say a lot will depend on Madrid's attempts to buy Bale and Suarez. If they get these two I couldn't see them putting out another huge outlay on an attacking player and therefore probably City would be the best guess due to Pellegrini's influence if this was to arise.

 

[l.Harm]

Italy v Holland. They played Norway yesterday.

That should be a great game. The Dutch have brought 12 players capped by the senior side while Italy are the side who are probably just behind Spain in impressing most. Looking forward to seeing how Veratti will do against Strootman, Van Ginkel and Maher in midfield. That's where the Dutch is most at it's strongest.

Midfield with these three players is very unbalanced. Lots of spaces for Italy if Holland is going to play the same Veratti will have a lot of space.

 

[gooner]

Midfield with these three players is very unbalanced. Lots of spaces for Italy if Holland is going to play the same Veratti will have a lot of space.

Interesting to see a de Vilhena play today and who you pointed out on the forum as a player to watch before. A bit quiet today(his time will come I'm sure) but was surprising to see him in a more central area and as part of the 3 man midfield. I always thought he was more of a wide man at Feyenoord.

Do you think Boetius should have been called up or is it too early? He impressed me a bit on the occasions I seen him before.

 

[l.Harm]

He's suffering from an injury, he would definitely be here if he wasn't injured. But now Depay is selected who is imo a huge talent (from PSV).

Vilhena always plays in a central role, as a number 10 or left midfielder (in 4-3-3). He's already won two Euros Under 17 and he was called as the best player of the tournament.

Well, Holland was playing with eleven other players against the best side this tournament. Actually you can't make a fair judgement of a single player this match. Vilhena had some good moments, but also a lot of bad ones. But every player had a tough time playing those Spaniards.

Btw Boëtius already made it to the preselection of the First Team. And Vilhena already to the selection. And don't forget most players this tournament are 21+. Vilhena is just 18, Boëtius only 19.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Italy - our midfield and strikers will be good enough to be a star later on, not so sure about the defense part except the keeper.