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The Real Football Thread

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pmcg76

Mar 6, 2009
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gooner said:
I wonder would Chelsea fans want to stay in Stamford Bridge if Abramovich was ready pull back majorly on the spending front to the point where it affected potential success in the future? Somehow, I think they might change their minds fairly quickly.

In the words of Ken Bates who campaigned against Abramovich in his efforts to move from Stamford Bridge and voted against him:



That's a sense of entitlement. Abramovich is telling Chelsea fans he's not going to be digging his hand in his pockets forever and is asking Chelsea fans to play their part in setting up the club for its future. They only reason they voted against the move is that Abramovich has continued to splash the cash consistently over the last 10 years and take it for granted he will continue to do so in the future. I guarantee you that will change if the flow of his money was to stop going into the club.

For your own information, Kroenke hasn't leveraged the club with any debt from his takeover and hasn't taken out any cash in the process from the club. The high ticket prices were there as well when the board were more Arsenal men like Dein and Fizsman before Kroenke arrived.

You were wrong on this and were wrong on saying big clubs make the tv deals which suit them when the Premiership one is divided on a more even basis. You need a two-thirds majority to get things through in a vote to change this where clubs can sell them on an individual basis. Interestingly you bring up financial fair play and we see the lesser clubs of the the the Championship, League 1 and League 2 vote to bring it in and the Premierships clubs want to do so as well. It's clubs like Chelsea and Man City which have driven up the wages to over 200,000 a week which have also done it to the lesser clubs as a domino effect. Look at Wigan with Dave Whelan as chairman, when they were in the Premiership he was a big proponent of introducing it as he said wages were spiralling out of control. Practically their whole turnover was going on it. FFP's aim is for clubs to build their success on a more sensible basis and it allows for clubs to have debts if it means it's for the infrastructure of the club like a new training ground or new stadium or on the academy. This is a good loophole they allow in all this. I'm a big fan of it.
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Said it before but FFP is BS, all it does is ensure that the richest and historically biggest clubs stay at the top of the tree and ensure that there is no longer possibilities for the likes of Chelsea/City to happen again thus ensuring the power and the glory stays among an even smaller group of clubs.

Its a nice idea to try and restrain out of control wages etc but it doesn't really level the playing field. Arsenal should benefit because of their thriftiness but what about a club like West Brom, how will they benefit??? The only thing that will ever level the playing field is a salary cap system with more emphasis on developing home-grown players.

One only has to look at football Pre Premier league. Most clubs had to try and balance the books so whenever they bought players, they usually sold as well. Clubs like Everton, Norwich, Villa, Forest, Ipswich etc where up there challenging for titles in England whilst historically big clubs like Utd, Asrenal, Spurs, Leeds were not always winning things. The first club to really break out and spend way more than their income on players was Man Utd under Ferguson so despite all the plaudits, it could be said that Ferguson was the first manager to truly but his way to titles. Yes he later developed his youth brigade that brought the Beckham, Giggs, Scholes generation but there were a lot of big name signings when Utd first won the title.

Now in fairness to Arsenal, they won their titles in the 80s/90s having assembled teams at a fraction of what Utd were doing but as recent 2 time champions, Arseanl were in a strong position entering the PL era and indeed were big spenders in the mid 90s to retain their position at the top of the table. As many predicted, the Premier league screwed football but even before that the big clubs were already talking about a breakaway European league, guess which English clubs were involved???

Football has been skewed in favour of the big clubs with money for a long time making it almost impossible for any other club to break into that league without finding a sugar daddy. Sadly football will remain that way with FFP and will not change until they limit team budgets regardless of club size. The day we see West Brom having the same budget as the Utd's of this world is when football will be fair again.
 
gooner

gooner

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pmcg76 said:
Said it before but FFP is BS, all it does is ensure that the richest and historically biggest clubs stay at the top of the tree and ensure that there is no longer possibilities for the likes of Chelsea/City to happen again thus ensuring the power and the glory stays among an even smaller group of clubs.

Its a nice idea to try and restrain out of control wages etc but it doesn't really level the playing field. Arsenal should benefit because of their thriftiness but what about a club like West Brom, how will they benefit??? The only thing that will ever level the playing field is a salary cap system with more emphasis on developing home-grown players.

One only has to look at football Pre Premier league. Most clubs had to try and balance the books so whenever they bought players, they usually sold as well. Clubs like Everton, Norwich, Villa, Forest, Ipswich etc where up there challenging for titles in England whilst historically big clubs like Utd, Asrenal, Spurs, Leeds were not always winning things. The first club to really break out and spend way more than their income on players was Man Utd under Ferguson so despite all the plaudits, it could be said that Ferguson was the first manager to truly but his way to titles. Yes he later developed his youth brigade that brought the Beckham, Giggs, Scholes generation but there were a lot of big name signings when Utd first won the title.

Now in fairness to Arsenal, they won their titles in the 80s/90s having assembled teams at a fraction of what Utd were doing but as recent 2 time champions, Arseanl were in a strong position entering the PL era and indeed were big spenders in the mid 90s to retain their position at the top of the table. As many predicted, the Premier league screwed football but even before that the big clubs were already talking about a breakaway European league, guess which English clubs were involved???

Football has been skewed in favour of the big clubs with money for a long time making it almost impossible for any other club to break into that league without finding a sugar daddy. Sadly football will remain that way with FFP and will not change until they limit team budgets regardless of club size. The day we see West Brom having the same budget as the Utd's of this world is when football will be fair again.
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Some fair points. Just on City and Chelsea their turnover is reaching huge levels now even outside of the benefactor influence. It would rein in their spending but still keep them competing at the top. The Etihad sponsorship deal is enormous for instance. Chelsea's turnover was bigger than Arsenal's in 2012. To be fair that is the downside of it where you would be worried it could establish a set order in the league but I used Wigan as an example as the wages:turnover was over 90% a few years back. That's very hard to sustain in the long run.

I think a huge problem was what Lennart Johanssen did with the Champions League. The top few clubs in each of the major leagues qualifying getting the huge financial rewards as a result, hence giving them the best opportunity to qualify over again and creating a monopoly and established hierachy because the same clubs were getting in their consistently. This huge financial boost went on to even influence the domestic leagues.

Their is too much a disparity between what the Europa League clubs get and the Champions League clubs get. This gap was allowed to grow to big in the first place and I think this has played a big part in this.
 
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pmcg76

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gooner said:
Some fair points. Just on City and Chelsea their turnover is reaching huge levels now even outside of the benefactor influence. It would rein in their spending but still keep them competing at the top. The Etihad sponsorship deal is enormous for instance. Chelsea's turnover was bigger than Arsenal's in 2012. To be fair that is the downside of it where you would be worried it could establish a set order in the league but I used Wigan as an example as the wages:turnover was over 90% a few years back. That's very hard to sustain in the long run.

I think a huge problem was what Lennart Johanssen did with the Champions League. The top few clubs in each of the major leagues qualifying getting the huge financial rewards as a result, hence giving them the best opportunity to qualify over again and creating a monopoly and established hierachy because the same clubs were getting in their consistently. This huge financial boost went on to even influence the domestic leagues.

Their is too much a disparity between what the Europa League clubs get and the Champions League clubs get. This gap was allowed to grow to big in the first place and I think this has played a big part in this.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's my point really. Some clubs are now up there like Chelsea/City but FFP now precludes anybody else from joining them thus creating a select league.

Yes, the Champions League really made things even worse but as I said, the big clubs throughout Europe were already pushing for a breakaway league thus part of the reason why UEFA caved and let more clubs from the big league's into Champions League. They were fearful of the big clubs starting their own Champions Cup.

Greed is good in football terms.
 
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del1962

Oct 16, 2012
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pmcg76 said:
Yeah, that's my point really. Some clubs are now up there like Chelsea/City but FFP now precludes anybody else from joining them thus creating a select league.

Yes, the Champions League really made things even worse but as I said, the big clubs throughout Europe were already pushing for a breakaway league thus part of the reason why UEFA caved and let more clubs from the big league's into Champions League. They were fearful of the big clubs starting their own Champions Cup.

Greed is good in football terms.
Click to expand...

I miss the days when Clough could take a team like Forest and win the league then European Cup, clubs like Real, Barca, ManU, Arsenal and Bayern have basically ruined football, which is why I laugh at their supporters moaning at the likes of Man City.:D
 
gooner

gooner

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Get in there. Ozil confirmed to Arsenal.

Super signing.:)

I can't wait for him to play and link up with the likes of Cazorla and Wilshere.
 
gooner

gooner

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On United, I thought it was a bit of a disaster. They were in for a central midefielder all summer and they just seemed to have been skipping from one target to another. Fabregas, Thiago, Herrera, De Rossi, Khedira just confirmed Madrid turned down a bid from United and Galatasaray said they received an indirect approach from them over Sneijder a couple of weeks back. It's like there was no set plan in place for transfer targets. The Herrera story is just laughable.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...ers-reportedly-scupper-ander-herreras-2246534

They couldn't close the Coentrao deal either last night and in the end they paid more than the release clause Fellaini had earlier in the summer.
 
Christian

Christian

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gooner said:
Get in there. Ozil confirmed to Arsenal.

Super signing.:)

I can't wait for him to play and link up with the likes of Cazorla and Wilshere.
Click to expand...

Yes that is an amazing signing, I hope he will boost Arsenal to more national success again
 
gooner

gooner

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Looks like Trap's time is now up with Ireland after our defeat to Austria. He was resigned to it in his interview afterwards. I know 2nd spot was a realistic aim but it was far from a certainty at the same time. I think people over here need a reality check and admit the players we have are nowhere like they were in the past. Alaba was outstanding in midfield tonight and we just don't have a player of that quality in our side. Some people have short memories and forget the shambles he inherited taking over from Staunton. He took us on the brink of qualification for the World Cup only for Henry's handball and got us to the Euros in 2012 which was out first major tournament since 2002 World Cup. That was our first Euros since 1988. This campaign admittedly hasn't been the best but I think we will struggle to get a big name as one look at the quality of players at his disposal could be enough to turn off any top coach from the job. It must be also noted that the loss tonight was out first competitve defeat away from home in 3 qualifying campaigns under Trap.
 
Christian

Christian

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del1962 said:
And Northern Ireland, oh dear:eek::eek:

The country that had Danny Blanchflower and George Best
Click to expand...

Luxembourg is still an amateur team but a lot better than they used to be. They now have quite a few players who are at semi-professional level in lower division leagues abroad. They have played some pretty good matches this campaign already
 
Pricey_sky

Pricey_sky

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Christian said:
Luxembourg is still an amateur team but a lot better than they used to be. They now have quite a few players who are at semi-professional level in lower division leagues abroad. They have played some pretty good matches this campaign already
Click to expand...

Still it's absolutely shocking. You have to go down to the 5th Tier to find the first semi-pro teams in England and it's and embarrassing defeat for a bunch of experienced pro's in the Northern Ireland side. They have been beaten by a team who are sandwiched between the footballing powerhouses of Afghansitan and the Philippines in the rankings.
 
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Pricey_sky said:
Still it's absolutely shocking. You have to go down to the 5th Tier to find the first semi-pro teams in England and it's and embarrassing defeat for a bunch of experienced pro's in the Northern Ireland side. They have been beaten by a team who are sandwiched between the footballing powerhouses of Afghansitan and the Philippines in the rankings.
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Yes still a shocking result! But they won against Russia I saw - bizarre to have such different results, win against the biggest country in the world and loss against one of the smallest!
 
gooner

gooner

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Pricey_sky said:
Still it's absolutely shocking. You have to go down to the 5th Tier to find the first semi-pro teams in England and it's and embarrassing defeat for a bunch of experienced pro's in the Northern Ireland side. They have been beaten by a team who are sandwiched between the footballing powerhouses of Afghansitan and the Philippines in the rankings.
Click to expand...

And against Russia they deserved to win with Russia not creating one clear chance.

Trap is now confirmed gone with Martin O'Neill being the bookies favourite to come in. Lots are convinced over here he will take it if he's offered the job but I have my doubts.
 
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