The Real Football Thread

[Swifty's Cakes]

I quite enjoyed that yesterday. It was Men versus Moyes.

 

[gooner]

Jack Warner now linked with corruption with the Qatar World Cup. Not that I'm surprised one bit. A classless individual.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ent-Jack-Warner-and-family-paid-millions.html

 

[gooner]

I quite enjoyed that yesterday. It was Men versus Moyes.

I was in the pub all day Sunday for the football and it was great watching the United fans whinge and moan for a change. I don't have any sympathy for them as they've been spoilt for years. Moyes bringing Rio Ferdinand on for Mata at the end just took the biscuit.

Kevin Sheedy who is a coach in the Everton youth set-up has said some interesting things about Moyes. Obviously he's not a fan.

http://www.thescore.ie/kevin-sheedy-slams-david-moyes-ireland-everton-1367066-Mar2014/

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Jack Warner now linked with corruption with the Qatar World Cup. Not that I'm surprised one bit. A classless individual.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ent-Jack-Warner-and-family-paid-millions.html

$2 million for selling out football? Sounds like a cheap hooker.

Need lots of votes to pull this scam. Lets see what else the papers can dig up around Blatter's kingdom.

 

[gooner]

If people want a reason for why the Wenger era should end, have one look at that first half back.

12 games now without a win against Chelsea, United and City.

Sigh.

 

[ebandit]

tough

a tough result to accept gooner.................even the comedy capers with the incorrect player being dismissed would not have been enough to cheer you up

but don't despair arsenal are still up there.................have thoughts for those fans who wish their team was in such a position

at least i could smile with a very last gasp winner for the toon

Mark L

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

cheer up lad you are going to win the cup in a few weeks.

Meanwhile Brendan's tricky reds march on.

 

[gooner]

a tough result to accept gooner.................even the comedy capers with the incorrect player being dismissed would not have been enough to cheer you up

but don't despair arsenal are still up there.................have thoughts for those fans who wish their team was in such a position

at least i could smile with a very last gasp winner for the toon

Mark L

With all due respect we are talking about Arsenal here, one of the top clubs in England with a huge stadium and fan base. They have a certain standard to live up and it would be one deemed higher than clubs like Stoke and others. Don't listen to Wenger's and Kroenke's spin, they'll make it out that they are some sort of Billy Beane in football when they are massively overachieving to get qualification for the Champions League. This couldn't be further from the truth. They have huge cash reserves, probably the highest in England. The only problem here is Wenger isn't willing to go the extra mile to use this and the Draxler situation in January is a classic example. Kroenke is delighted with Wenger's policy and they are made for each other as a partnership. Do people honestly think Usmanov would put up with this nonsense? Arsenal fans can complain all the like about the financial power of City and Chelsea but it's not their fault that Wenger's recent record in the transfer has been found wanting. Plenty of managers out there would love the funds we have and with the team we have currently, would move heaven and earth to invest it back into the squad.

This manager's time is over.

cheer up lad you are going to win the cup in a few weeks.

Meanwhile Brendan's tricky reds march on.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Wenger couldn't even get past Birmingham in 2011. If he wins it, I still think it's the perfect time to move on and it would be a great way to end it all at Wembley with a trophy. As far as the league and Champions League, we will never ever win it with Wenger still remaining as manager. No great manager worth their salt repeat the same mistakes over and over again and not rectify them. This is what's happening with Wenger now.

Time to move on and Arsenal shouldn't be afraid of change. Clubs like Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern, Chelsea, Inter etc have done so and success still comes.

1000 games where he shouldn't have got a near that amount at a real club with strong ownership. One win in 14 games against United, Chelsea and City is pathetic.

 

[ebandit]

sorry!

sorry! gooner although I feel for your loss yesterday...........no fan deserves that I have little time for your whining above

arsenal still 'could' ( ok I appreciate that they won't ) win the premier league

you have a beautiful stadium................stars playing beautiful football

count your blessings
Mark L

 

[gooner]

sorry! gooner although I feel for your loss yesterday...........no fan deserves that I have little time for your whining above

arsenal still 'could' ( ok I appreciate that they won't ) win the premier league

you have a beautiful stadium................stars playing beautiful football

count your blessings
Mark L

Sorry now, I'm arguing my point with facts to back them up and I didn't ask for/don't want any sympathy at the same time. Mainly I don't need any sympathy either, it's just football. This is just an opinion that I don't lose sleep over where I don't think it's right he has be getting away with it for years while other top managers get hammered and are more accountable. I was listening to The Sunday Supplement this morning on Sky and Andy Dunn with The Mirror said in his first spell at Chelsea, Mourinho called in the written press and asked them why they weren't given Wenger a hard time. I can understand where he's coming from and I bet there is a lot more managers who feel that way but just don't say it.

Anytime I hear the the beautiful stadium and beautiful football argument, it still doesn't hide from the faults and issues at hand. If Moyes gets United playing great football but not winning football, it won't be deemed sufficient.

That stadium has the highest season ticket prices in football. Many of these fans are a lot worse than me at expressing their opinions currently. Have a look on twitter or the Le Grove blog and you'll see for yourself.

 

[ebandit]

football

if it's 'just football' ...............what's the problem?

because you're a fan and your opinion is important

but others may think differently and there opinion is important too

before you carry on whining..................imagaine R E L E G A T I O N

Mark L

 

[adriano01]

mia san mia bayern munich

 

[pmcg76]

if it's 'just football' ...............what's the problem?

because you're a fan and your opinion is important

but others may think differently and there opinion is important too

before you carry on whining..................imagaine R E L E G A T I O N

Mark L

Gooner is an excellent poster on cycling matter's and I have great respect for him in general. On football though he is just another typical Irish glory hunter supporter. He will deny this of course but if you live in Ireland, you will support one of United, Arsenal, Liverpool or more recently Chelsea and we will now see City fan's popping up. They will always try to justify why they support these club's but it's obvious really.

It's not like being born into these club's, well maybe it is but that is because whoever came before was a glory hunter as well, older brother/parent etc. It's not like having a bond or connection with the city or town the team come's from like most fans in England. Not to say there aren't plenty of English glory hunter's, most support Utd as usual.

They are all the same as well, they expect their team to win becasue they chose to support a winning team and moan all the time when they are not winning. Don't expect them to understand what it's like to follow a club that would dream of Arsenal's status/success cos they would never even consider following such a team.

I follow a non-premier team because I lived in the city they come from for quite a few year's. When you talk to the glory fan's, it's always the same. WTF would you support them for?? No concept of supporting a club for more than the glory of winning things. It is funny to see how obsessed some Irish poeope become with football team's from cities they don't have the first clue about or probably never been to other than for a football game.

That's life in Ireland.

 

[ebandit]

thanks!

thanks! when I go to the match............I walk there

Mark L

 

[Amsterhammer]

Fantastic first half of the Classico 2-2. It could have been 5-5. Seriously.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Fantastic first half of the Classico 2-2. It could have been 5-5. Seriously.

Happy it finished 4-3 Barca, it keeps the title race there very interesting with just 1 point separating the top 3.

 

[gooner]

Gooner is an excellent poster on cycling matter's and I have great respect for him in general. On football though he is just another typical Irish glory hunter supporter. He will deny this of course but if you live in Ireland, you will support one of United, Arsenal, Liverpool or more recently Chelsea and we will now see City fan's popping up. They will always try to justify why they support these club's but it's obvious really.

It's not like being born into these club's, well maybe it is but that is because whoever came before was a glory hunter as well, older brother/parent etc. It's not like having a bond or connection with the city or town the team come's from like most fans in England. Not to say there aren't plenty of English glory hunter's, most support Utd as usual.

My father and uncles were all Leeds fans. No Arsenal allegiance among family or friends whatsoever. In the case of my father he was also huge Cork Celtic fan when they were in existence and travelled many parts of the country watching them.

They are all the same as well, they expect their team to win becasue they chose to support a winning team and moan all the time when they are not winning. Don't expect them to understand what it's like to follow a club that would dream of Arsenal's status/success cos they would never even consider following such a team.

I follow a non-premier team because I lived in the city they come from for quite a few year's. When you talk to the glory fan's, it's always the same. WTF would you support them for?? No concept of supporting a club for more than the glory of winning things. It is funny to see how obsessed some Irish poeope become with football team's from cities they don't have the first clue about or probably never been to other than for a football game.

That's life in Ireland.

PCMG, I respect your opinion and I have no doubt that you're bang on the money with some of the points above. Here's where you're wrong with regards to me. I follow the Football League programme on the lower divisions without miss every single week. It's either one of the shows that review the action on the BBC or the one on Monday evening with George Gavin on Sky. I have huge respect for these fans in the lower divisions and they are bigger fans of their clubs than me and other Irish fans of the top PL fans. To say I'm dismissive of them couldn't be further from the truth. If that was the case why do I follow this level of football so avidly. In recent weeks I've watched Derby v Leicester, QPR v Leeds, Derby v QPR, all of Gillingham v Wolves on Sky a couple of months back and watched Sheff Utd v Charlton in the Cup. Take Portsmouth where fans have put huge amounts of their money into the club. Massive respect. They couldn't even keep hold of David Connolly who had a good partnership at the start of the season with Agyemang. That's what hard times is.

Secondly, I've been down to Turners Cross to watch Cork City games down the years. I remember even listening on the radio celebrating Paul Bannon's title winning goal back in the day when the league was a 3 way tie. That time it went to play off since no goal difference decided the league back then. The season has just started and I plan on going down on a few occasions this year when I can. I like to see them do well. Last week I watched a good bit of City's game with Derry and the pitch in the Brandywell was a disgrace. Do you think people in this thread would be interested in me posting on the happenings of Cork City's game last Sunday? Last Monday I watched the Soccer Republic show(recommend it, much better than the MNS show from last year) on RTE where Brian Kerr and David Forde were guests for the review of the league. I'll be watching it tomorrow again. Regarding your bolded point I have never in my life said that once to a fan of an Airtricity club. Where I think the Irish clubs leave themselves down is that they don't go into the community enough. I can speak for Cork City here and I take my own experiences growing up in primary and secondary schools and not once would you see club officials or players come into the schools to tap into a future fan base market by promoting the club. Compare that with the GAA local clubs or the Football League clubs in England. They miss out on generations of fans and people find no identity with the clubs as a result. They have only themselves to blame. I've been saying it for years. What could help now is the current TV deal where so far they are showing one game a week. I'd be interested to see if they will keep this up or will this be just a temporary one coinciding with the season start. They are clashing the games with the Premiership which isn't the best scenario and the Friday night football which they showed on a temporary basis before would be better now for the permanent TV fixture.

I disagree with your generalisation even if a lot of it is correct to a certain section. I have no issue with pointing this out and it's a well worth discussion but I think to say I have no respect for fans of the lower leagues, you would have to know me personally. I know safe in the knowledge that isn't the case. Regarding Ebandit's point about relegation, certain clubs are held to higher standard than others. Arsenal and Everton are two of the longest serving clubs in the top flight. That goes in all leagues. Roda, Zwolle, NEC and Go Ahead Eagles aren't held to the same standard of results as Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV. If Ajax go through a lean spell it won't be acceptable to just say they are better than the former set of clubs and that everything is OK because they won't get relegated. I'm entitled to give my opinion on all walks of football as long as I watch it in that referenced league and am informed on the goings on in it. My location has got nothing got to do with it and I make no apologies for my location of birth. My location should have nothing got to do with me having an opinion of the Classico tonight which was a great game. I'm a football fan first and foremost.

 

[gooner]

thanks! when I go to the match............I walk there

Mark L

Out of interest would you be down Turners Cross every week watching Cork City if you're birth was in that said city? I'll take a wild guess there myself.

Don't think for a second a club like Newcastle who you support wouldn't be happy with foreign fans coming in their droves to support their club. I guarantee you if you ask local fan groups about this, where it would help merchandise sales with an increase in future turnover to help invest in the team, it would be welcomed big time. This is what United do so don't think a club like Newcastle would be any different if they were in a position to do so. I suppose you wouldn't enjoy the benefits of that though. Watch their tune change quickly then.

Again I make no apologies for my birthplace when giving opinions on football. What makes you think you'd be any different to myself if you were born over here in my location?

 

[ebandit]

?

gooner I think you should really lighten up / reread my posts

my observations were only 'be HAPPY times are good for gooners everywhere'

Mark L

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

Out of interest would you be down Turners Cross every week watching Cork City if you're birth was in that said city? I'll take a wild guess there myself.

Don't think for a second a club like Newcastle who you support wouldn't be happy with foreign fans coming in their droves to support their club. I guarantee you if you ask local fan groups about this, where it would help merchandise sales with an increase in future turnover to help invest in the team, it would be welcomed big time. This is what United do so don't think a club like Newcastle would be any different if they were in a position to do so. I suppose you wouldn't enjoy the benefits of that though. Watch their tune change quickly then.

Again I make no apologies for my birthplace when giving opinions on football. What makes you think you'd be any different to myself if you were born over here in my location?

Can't speak for any of the other posters, but I live in Liverpool and work in Manchester and if you ask local fan groups in either city you will definately not get the answer you are guaranteeing.

Clubs belong in the communities that gave rise to them and they should be prioritising their local fan bases. That's what you hear from local fan groups; the story you are promoting about how all the ouside money benefits the clubs is the one you'll hear from Sky, corporate PR men, the get rich quick players, and anyone else with a vested interest in making money out of football but not any regular matchgoers I've ever met.

I'm against modern football and would much rather go back to a situation without all the money when the clubs were part of the cultural heritage of the city and there was a sense of shared identity that the influx of so many out of towners diminishes with each passing year.

Sadly football teams are now are billionaires playthings and corporate billboards just as much as cyclists and any sense of shared heritage is long gone. These days the local diehards go the game surronded by thousands of footy tourists who've bought club sponsored packages from Thomas Cook for hundreds of pounds but you try getting a ticket for the next generation of young scousers or mancs and you'll either scratch around for a league cup ticket or end up at Tranmere and Bury

Its a ludditve view I know, and we are never going back there but still what local fan groups want is a club that belongs to them, emotionally if not financially.

 

[gooner]

Can't speak for any of the other posters, but I live in Liverpool and work in Manchester and if you ask local fan groups in either city you will definately not get the answer you are guaranteeing.

Clubs belong in the communities that gave rise to them and they should be prioritising their local fan bases. That's what you hear from local fan groups; the story you are promoting about how all the ouside money benefits the clubs is the one you'll hear from Sky, corporate PR men, the get rich quick players, and anyone else with a vested interest in making money out of football but not any regular matchgoers I've ever met.

I'm against modern football and would much rather go back to a situation without all the money when the clubs were part of the cultural heritage of the city and there was a sense of shared identity that the influx of so many out of towners diminishes with each passing year.

Sadly football teams are now are billionaires playthings and corporate billboards just as much as cyclists and any sense of shared heritage is long gone. These days the local diehards go the game surronded by thousands of footy tourists who've bought club sponsored packages from Thomas Cook for hundreds of pounds but you try getting a ticket for the next generation of young scousers or mancs and you'll either scratch around for a league cup ticket or end up at Tranmere and Bury

Its a ludditve view I know, and we are never going back there but still what local fan groups want is a club that belongs to them, emotionally if not financially.

I'm not on about benefactors. For instance, Hull fans are right to be livid that their owner is trying to change their name. That's a different kettle of fish altogether. Trust me, all clubs would welcome fans abroad. Arsenal Supporters Trust welcome membership from abroad at all times and have Irish in there. These are regular local match goers like Tim Payton their spokesperson. Bayern have a worldwide fan base but the club with it's ownership structure has an identity to it's fans. Similar with a fan owned club like Barca who go out of their way to tap into a worldwide fan base with their "More than a club slogan". These clubs don't go to the US and the Far East in pre season for the good of their health. Swansea are locally owned by the fans and are a shining light in this department. Foreign fans coming in to support the club doesn't change the fact the club is owned locally. I went to Arsenal back in the Highbury days and I don't think I had any influence in taking the club away from the community by doing so. I found any local fans to be welcome at all times. Never had a problem. These were times when Kroenke and Usmanov weren't involved either and the Arsenal Supporters Trust had a bigger influence with a bigger fan share. It was in the days with Hill-Wood, Dein, Edelman and Fiszman(RIP) who are all huge Arsenal fans throughout their life. Back then Lady Nina Bracewell Smith had shares which were passed through generations. Ken Friar is still there today and in those days they still had no problems with foreign fans coming in. It's welcomed and me going over there doesn't change the fact that there was a big identity with the board and the club. I have no influence in the likes of Usmanov and Kroenke investing in Arsenal. In the case of Kroenke, Glazers and Henry, I don't have anytime for absentee owners where I seriously question their motives.

All these clubs including a fan owned club like Swansea are delighted when the international TV rights are sold for massive money abroad and are happy beneficiaries of the big worldwide fan appeal the Premier League has. They are more than happy as in my case to take nearly 60 euros a month which I pay solely for football purposes to get Sky Sports, BT Sport and Setanta Ireland for the 3 o'clock kick-offs.

I agree with some of the modern day football criticisms but mine is more at the authorities who run the game in Europe where the Champions League has created a distortion of competition in the domestic leagues across Europe. The big financial rewards for qualification for the CL gives those teams a greater chance of qualifying the next year and it creates a certain clique and monopoly in the game. In previous eras in the straight knock out with one team qualifying from each country the financial rewards were no way as great as they were today and didn't really have the effect on the domestic leagues. There is too much in a financial reward difference between the clubs in the Europa League and Champions League and it needs to be closed significantly for the greater competition good of the game. It won't happen now as you say, that shipped has sailed and we're stuck with the game we have for good. If Platini comes in and try and forces his hand on the issue there will be a breakaway threatened immediately.

 

[gooner]

Clubs belong in the communities that gave rise to them and they should be prioritising their local fan bases.

One more thing on this point, Premiership clubs are still always going out into the community nowadays. If you ever see the Match of the Day repeat show on Sunday morning, they always add in a segment on this area which you wouldn't see in the Saturday night programme. You would see it sometimes as well on the weekly Premier League preview programme. I always used to get the Arsenal magazine monthly, less so nowadays and they always go into community with players and officials on club projects. Man City are currently doing great work in the local area and you see they aren't forgetting about the great players of their history like Mike Summerbee. Clubs prioritise here most definitely but they don't turn down a big foreign fan base if they can tap into it. You don't have to have one and not the other.

 

[gustienordic]

*Sigh* Arsenal is playing terribly against Swansea.

On their day they should be crushing Swansea. I don't get their starting line-up either. A) Giroud needs some competition for his spot up front (I want to see Ox try playing as forward). B) Flamini is terrible C) Wilshere, Ramsey, & Walcott need to get healthy.

If all players were healthy, I would love to see:

Walcott==========Ox==========Podoloski

============Ozil/Ramsey=================

=======Wilshere=======Arteta/Ozil==========

Then the usually back four.

 

[gooner]

Refreshing listening to Paul Scholes on Sky tonight and not have the same old cliche nonsense that we normally see from the pundits nowadays. He hit the nail on the head with his analysis on United and Arsenal.

 

[the sceptic]

*Sigh* Arsenal is playing terribly against Swansea.

On their day they should be crushing Swansea. I don't get their starting line-up either. A) Giroud needs some competition for his spot up front (I want to see Ox try playing as forward). B) Flamini is terrible C) Wilshere, Ramsey, & Walcott need to get healthy.

If all players were healthy, I would love to see:

Walcott==========Ox==========Podoloski

============Ozil/Ramsey=================

=======Wilshere=======Arteta/Ozil==========

Then the usually back four.

I dont think Flamini is terrible. He is just limited, but good at what he does.

Arteta seems to be a much bigger liability, especially against good teams.

Its unfortunate for arsenal that their key players always seem to get injured. And their squad is not really good enough to challenge for the title. They need more depth and rotation.